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Howard Riefs

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Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« on: April 16, 2012, 06:30:37 PM »
Matt Ginella has an in-depth Q&A with Mike Keiser about various topics, including Bandon, Cabot Links, Sheep Meadow, Bandon Muni, Ireland, etc.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/04/catching-up-with-mike-keiser-o-1.html#entry-more

Takeaways...

Bandon Dunes

Preserve
-- Tee sheet is full for opening day.

-- Donating all Preserve profits to south-coast conservation.

-- When asked "If I play 36 in a day on one or two of the big courses, is my late-afternoon round at Preserve free?" Response: "This is how it’s going to work: If you play a big course in peak season, it’s $230. A replay rate on a big course is $115. The Preserve will be $100 in peak season; $50 off-peak, and although there will be no replay rate at Preserve, the third round in one day on any of the five courses is free. In order to avoid an afternoon jam on Preserve, we're considering an age stipulation. One suggestion: you can only play Preserve in the afternoon if you’re over 50."   <---- Craziness

Trails
-- On #14, Coore moved the trap that’s left of the green, farther to the left.

-- "We know Trails doesn’t get a lot of play for two reasons: It’s not on the ocean and the finish is too hard. We’ve made the finishing holes easier and more forgiving."
    * #16:  The fairway bunkers have been moved to the right, so it will be an easier lay-up shot.
    * #17:  Added a tee.
    * #18:  Taking out the fairway bunker on the left, moving the green to the left. Will be less undulation to approach shot to the green.

Busiest course
-- "Old Mac, then Bandon, then Pacific, then Trails. And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Old Mac is fun. How often is a course designed to be fun? Turns out, that’s a popular concept."


Sheep Ranch
-- Heard about a possible complete renovation to Sheep Ranch? "There’s no architect and no current plans. I’m pushing as best I can."


Bandon Muni
-- "We’re moving on the property as fast as we can, but we’re navigating a glacially political landscape. I recently upped the ante on what I’m willing to trade the state. ... I’d say it’s 50/50 it happens in the next six months."

-- How does Gil Hanse building Olympic Course in Rio affect him designing Bandon Muni? "Rio will take a lot of his time and energy. So even if we get the land in the next six months, Gil will slow us down. It’s a setback, but it’s not permanent."

-- Consider hiring an alternate architect? "I thought about it, but [Tom] Doak has done two at Bandon Dunes, [Bill] Coore has done two, and will be the next architect if we build a second course at Cabot Links. I like and want to work with Gil, so I’ll wait for Gil."


Big 3
-- Re: Bandon Muni, You only mentioned Doak, Coore and Hanse? "They are the new Big 3, aren’t they? If you haven’t been to Streamsong, be prepared to be astonished."  


Cabot Links
-- "Need 200 golfers a day to be successful. July and August are the first two prime months. And that’s when I’ll find out if the investment is worth it. I have a quite a bit of money into it."
 
-- If you build a second course at Cabot Links, the architects would be Coore and [Ben] Crenshaw? "Yes. We’ll know a lot more by the third week in August. If we can’t do 200 golfers per day, there’s nothing to do."


Ireland
-- "I’m going in July or August to look at two sites: the Inch Peninsula in the southwest, and Bushmills Dunes in the north."


Keiser's priorities
-- "Preserve. Cabot Links. A second course at Cabot Links. Bandon Muni is only behind the second course at Cabot Links because of Gil’s commitment to Rio. The Sheep Ranch and Ireland are both on the priority list."


« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 06:37:21 PM by Howard Riefs »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Chris_Hufnagel

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 07:19:57 PM »
Thanks for posting Howard...for all of us (me included) that speculate about Bandon on these pages - there is a lot of really interesting detail...

Ash Towe

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 09:50:39 PM »
I really admire Mr Keiser in the development of high quality golf courses in the U.S. and now in Canada and Ireland.  I wish him every success and hope that saturation point for these type of developments is a long way away.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 09:55:48 PM »
HR:

Gonna nickname you the King of the Links. Thanks for another great link!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Carl Nichols

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 11:00:44 PM »
It was already high on my travel list, but this just bumped Streamsong up even higher.

Ross Harmon

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 11:17:24 PM »
Thanks! As long as Keiser keeps building, I'll keep traveling! He's the best!

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 01:16:07 AM »
Howard,

I can still remember a conversation I had with Mike years ago when the Renaissance Cup was held at Stonewall.

I told him "even if there is a ninety nine percent that nothing could ever happen at Inch, you should still go see the place"

Then, I added: "No, I take that back. Even if there is a one hundred percent chance nothing will ever happen, you should still see Inch".

MIke looked at me like I was a bit crazy.

Fortunately, I would later get to take Rupert O'Neil to see the place when he was considering what became the Ballyneal project.

We'll see what happens. Arthur Spring spent at least twenty years trying to make something work at Inch.  So Inch just may be destined to be a fantasy one dreams about when playing across the bay at Dooks, itself one of the most wonderful places in golf.
Tim Weiman

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 02:36:10 AM »
Cabot Links
-- "Need 200 golfers a day to be successful. July and August are the first two prime months. And that’s when I’ll find out if the investment is worth it. I have a quite a bit of money into it."
 
-- If you build a second course at Cabot Links, the architects would be Coore and [Ben] Crenshaw? "Yes. We’ll know a lot more by the third week in August. If we can’t do 200 golfers per day, there’s nothing to do."


Is it me or does 200 golfers a day seem high.  Understandably the summer days are long up there.  Sunrise in July ranges between 0513 and 0542.  For simplicity we say tee times start at 0530 for July.  If they are sending people off at 10 min intervals he's expecting a full tee sheet from 0530 until 1340 (assuming each time is a full 4-some) 7 days a week?

For comparison Matt G says in a Sept 2011 article (http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2011/09/bandon-preserve-the-scorecard.html) the Bandon Resort get about 115000 rounds a year.  30k on Pacific, Bandon and OM and 25k on Trails.  That means each course is averaging 79ish rounds a day.  I understand the winter months hurt that daily average but I also figure the replay rates increase the total number of rounds played.

Similarly I remember reading when initially opening Bandon Keiser projected a req'd number of rounds at 10,000 a year (or avg 28 rounds a day).

In the Oct 2011 feature interview Keiser says 20,000 a year at Cabot and it makes sense to build the second course.  So if he needs 200 rounds a day and 20,000 a year is the season really on 100 days?

I hope it happens but I really hope he is really over-estimating what he needs in order to break even.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 06:13:07 AM »
Cabot Links
-- "Need 200 golfers a day to be successful. July and August are the first two prime months. And that’s when I’ll find out if the investment is worth it. I have a quite a bit of money into it."
 
-- If you build a second course at Cabot Links, the architects would be Coore and [Ben] Crenshaw? "Yes. We’ll know a lot more by the third week in August. If we can’t do 200 golfers per day, there’s nothing to do."


Is it me or does 200 golfers a day seem high.  Understandably the summer days are long up there.  Sunrise in July ranges between 0513 and 0542.  For simplicity we say tee times start at 0530 for July.  If they are sending people off at 10 min intervals he's expecting a full tee sheet from 0530 until 1340 (assuming each time is a full 4-some) 7 days a week?

For comparison Matt G says in a Sept 2011 article (http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2011/09/bandon-preserve-the-scorecard.html) the Bandon Resort get about 115000 rounds a year.  30k on Pacific, Bandon and OM and 25k on Trails.  That means each course is averaging 79ish rounds a day.  I understand the winter months hurt that daily average but I also figure the replay rates increase the total number of rounds played.

Similarly I remember reading when initially opening Bandon Keiser projected a req'd number of rounds at 10,000 a year (or avg 28 rounds a day).

In the Oct 2011 feature interview Keiser says 20,000 a year at Cabot and it makes sense to build the second course.  So if he needs 200 rounds a day and 20,000 a year is the season really on 100 days?

I hope it happens but I really hope he is really over-estimating what he needs in order to break even.

Joe:

I think you're misreading what Mike said.  He said he wants to see 200 rounds a day in the busy season, before it makes sense to think about a second course.  That's pretty obvious, really ... if the first course isn't full in the high season, there's no need for another.

Jim Tang

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, 09:46:08 AM »
Can someone explain what the site at Inch is like?  I've played Dooks, and it sounds like Inch is nearby?

William_G

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, 09:57:12 AM »
Can someone explain what the site at Inch is like?  I've played Dooks, and it sounds like Inch is nearby?

Good question as Inch is mostly a beach area in a bay south of the Dingle Peninsula...love it there, very picturesque

I've been there but without a specific spot in mind for golf, I'd have to guess the site would be flat sand?

There are cliffs surrounding the bay and flatland at the beach, the grand strand.

thanks
It's all about the golf!

Joe Stansell

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2012, 09:59:31 AM »
Looks like this from Google Earth:


David_Tepper

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2012, 10:04:29 AM »
And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Old Mac is fun. How often is a course designed to be fun? Turns out, that’s a popular concept."

+1!

Garland Bayley

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2012, 10:08:03 AM »
And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that Old Mac is fun. How often is a course designed to be fun? Turns out, that’s a popular concept."

+1!

Hmmmmmmmm! It occurs to me that Old Mac would require you to hit a lot of fw wood second shots on par 4s. How fun is that? ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Stephen Davis

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2012, 10:47:54 AM »
This was a great read. I really admire what Keiser is doing in bringing great links golf to the people. Cabot Links looks awesome and I cannot wait to play some of the other courses that have been mentioned. I am very excited for the Bandon Muni and I need to get out to the Sheep Ranch before any changes are made so I know what to compare it to. I do agree that those (Doak, Coore/Crenshaw & Hanse) are the Dream Team when it comes to GCA. I don't think there are any better out there right now. I am also really excited about Streamsong. I am not a huge fan of Florida golf, but this looks like it is going to be amazing! Anyone know a timetable on it?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2012, 11:15:56 AM »
This was a great read. I really admire what Keiser is doing in bringing great links golf to the people. Cabot Links looks awesome and I cannot wait to play some of the other courses that have been mentioned. I am very excited for the Bandon Muni and I need to get out to the Sheep Ranch before any changes are made so I know what to compare it to. I do agree that those (Doak, Coore/Crenshaw & Hanse) are the Dream Team when it comes to GCA. I don't think there are any better out there right now. I am also really excited about Streamsong. I am not a huge fan of Florida golf, but this looks like it is going to be amazing! Anyone know a timetable on it?

Stephen:

Our course at Streamsong is completely grassed; they are grassing the last few holes on the Red course [by Coore & Crenshaw] this month.  The whole resort is scheduled to open in December, 2012.


Joey Chase

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 12:36:50 PM »
Did I miss something?  Why doesn't he have any love for DMK in his conversations about the architects? 

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2012, 12:55:21 PM »
Looks like this from Google Earth:



I didn't know Mike Keiser was looking at this site... I did know that Irish architect Arthur Spring had been trying to get a course built here for the last 20 years... Not sure why it never got off the ground...

It is absolutely amazing from the road / beach. Dunes appear to be perfect size for golf although I haven't walked the site to see... Clearly some elements of the peninsula would have to be stabilised so I suspect there were environmental concerns.

What's he looking at Bushmill Dunes for? I didn't realise he was involved up there either....

David_Tepper

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2012, 01:24:03 PM »
Can anyone tell me how long/wide the Inch Peninsula is? Is is really big enough to site an 18-hole course? to How does it compare in size to the peninsula that holds the Fortrose & Rosemarkie GC in Scotland?

Nice aerial view of F&R GC and the Chanory Point peninsula:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chanonry_Point2006-11.jpg
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 01:50:09 PM by David_Tepper »

Jim Tang

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2012, 01:44:16 PM »
David -

Good question.  I was thinking the same thing once I saw that overhead.  Could you route holes in all 4 directions, or does the width of that peninsula dictate holes running in only 2 directions?

Can you see the Inch site from Dooks?  I remember playing the front 9 at Dooks down by the water at looking across the inlet.  I could see rolling land over there.  Is that the Inch site?

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2012, 02:11:24 PM »
David, Jim,

I measured it out a few years ago. I seem to remember that it was easily big enough to route a few holes in all directions, especially at those two wider sections. That's presuming all the land is available and suitable though... Don't have access to google earth at the moment though...

You can certainly see Inch from Dooks... It's right in your face and looks fantastic...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2012, 02:18:43 PM »
Can anyone tell me how long/wide the Inch Peninsula is? Is is really big enough to site an 18-hole course? to How does it compare in size to the peninsula that holds the Fortrose & Rosemarkie GC in Scotland?

Nice aerial view of F&R GC and the Chanory Point peninsula:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chanonry_Point2006-11.jpg

From what I've been told of it, the Inch site is big enough for multiple golf courses, if you could get the environmental planning permission.  Hopefully someday I will have a chance to confirm this.


Stephen Davis

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2012, 02:21:10 PM »
This was a great read. I really admire what Keiser is doing in bringing great links golf to the people. Cabot Links looks awesome and I cannot wait to play some of the other courses that have been mentioned. I am very excited for the Bandon Muni and I need to get out to the Sheep Ranch before any changes are made so I know what to compare it to. I do agree that those (Doak, Coore/Crenshaw & Hanse) are the Dream Team when it comes to GCA. I don't think there are any better out there right now. I am also really excited about Streamsong. I am not a huge fan of Florida golf, but this looks like it is going to be amazing! Anyone know a timetable on it?

Stephen:

Our course at Streamsong is completely grassed; they are grassing the last few holes on the Red course [by Coore & Crenshaw] this month.  The whole resort is scheduled to open in December, 2012.



Thanks Tom! December is a lot sooner than I had expected. That is great news!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 02:28:02 PM »
This was a great read. I really admire what Keiser is doing in bringing great links golf to the people. Cabot Links looks awesome and I cannot wait to play some of the other courses that have been mentioned. I am very excited for the Bandon Muni and I need to get out to the Sheep Ranch before any changes are made so I know what to compare it to. I do agree that those (Doak, Coore/Crenshaw & Hanse) are the Dream Team when it comes to GCA. I don't think there are any better out there right now. I am also really excited about Streamsong. I am not a huge fan of Florida golf, but this looks like it is going to be amazing! Anyone know a timetable on it?

Stephen:

Our course at Streamsong is completely grassed; they are grassing the last few holes on the Red course [by Coore & Crenshaw] this month.  The whole resort is scheduled to open in December, 2012.



Thanks Tom! December is a lot sooner than I had expected. That is great news!

Stephen:

Whoops!  Realized I misspoke a bit.  The two golf courses and the clubhouse will be open in December 2012.  The resort hotel won't be open until the following season -- I haven't heard an opening date for that yet.

Kalen Braley

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Re: Mike Keiser talks Bandon, Cabot Links, Ireland, Big 3
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 02:35:50 PM »
So Tom,

If i understand correctly, the C&C course will be open for play in a mere 8 months, even though at least part of it isn't being grassed until this month?

Are they seeding or sodding?

Thanks,

Kalen