Do the Members of GCA.com support this view point……

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

Clearly no sense of humour, but willing to jump into a thread and call people names – I’ll leave you to decide if your behaviour is ‘Stupid and Slow’.

I am and have said so many times before – I am just an ordinary bloke with opinions upon the game of golf, yes some strong but then they are just opinions and not seeking to cause physical mental or bodily harm.

As for “you post simply for attention and to feed your arrogant opinion of yourself” that is your opinion. The only thing wrong with your statement is why do I want attention – as a nobody why would I get attention, but I have like you and the other members of this site the same right to voice my opinions on golf, its history and GCA.

Arrogant for possessing strong belief, that’s your and perhaps the opinion of others, but then I feel the same about all those people that get so deep into listings and ratings, but then I remember they have every right to their opinions.

My points have much to do with GCA and if you add to that that I believe these things to be aids, unfair aids giving benefit to players, then that IMHO is wrong. I want aids banned or if not then stroke penalty to revert the game back to its original form of playing unaided. If there is some arrogance in that and that I seek support and assistance in pushing the point, then yes perhaps your comment may be right, but not in the vein you are referring to.

Sorry you can’t see through the mist of dislike, but then that’s all down to you to accept or not.

Melvyn

[Craig Sweet]

Opinions..you are so good at defending the "right" to an opinion...if its yours.   Why do you have a problem with someone not liking the weather?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

Its not the weather, it’s the point that golf can be played in nearly all weathers that’s what I am defending. The key to that was my repeated use of Tim’s statement “in conditions that usually don't suit golf.”

Links golf is open to all weather conditions, that’s the point and if you know links golf the worse the conditions the more skill the player uses, resulting in raw joy.

Tim said he did not know links golf so I wanted to see who else was unfamiliar with it but it never got off the ground thanks to comments being made that had no association with the subject matter or GCA – at least Tim’s comment and opinion was honest and open.

Melvyn

[Craig Sweet]

So let me get this straight...within the context of discussing THE Open, he says he's not familiar with (as in he hasn't played) the courses, and he thinks....probably based on what he has seen on TV....that the weather conditions usually don't suit playing golf (in his opinion of what is good weather for golf).....and somehow you have a problem with that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah...blah...blah....blah....I know...I know...golf is an all weather sport, and the beauty of the links experience is sometimes the wind howls and you can barely stand up...and sometimes it rains sideways and is dreadfully cold....and it challenges you to create shots and blah...blah...blah....so what? I can sit on my ass in a nice warm clubhouse, next to a roaring fire, and sip a nice single malt.  Nothing wrong with that, now is there?  Or are you saying the next crappy day we get I should run right out and play 18 cus' if I don't I'm going to miss something special? Like catching pneumonia.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

Is it really that difficult to comprehend that golf can be played in most weather conditions even when some unaware of the changeable links makes a statement along the lines of “in conditions that usually don't suit golf.” Who is to say it’s not suitable particular if that individual has very little experience of UK links game. 

Melvyn

[Craig Sweet]

You are obsessing over nothing...go get checked out.

[John Kavanaugh]

Melvyn,

Given Young Tom's untimely death at 24, I would think you of all people would advise caution against playing in unsuitable weather. Nae breath, nae golf.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Craig

Many thanks for your scintillating input into this thread. I am always impressed as to just how much you know about links golf. You are a legend in your own life time, a wonder to behold.



Melvyn


John  Get your facts correct, the snow did not kill him.

[Jim Sherma]

I really don't want to get in the middle of this but last May I teed off in the sun at Carnoustie right smack into a 20mph wind with gusts up from there. I asked my caddie, an older guy who has obviously been around the block as he took notice of my 1952 George Sayers sand wedge, if the locals would regularly play in conditions like this. His quote, at least as closely as I can remember, was "no, we'll all be here tomorrow when it's nicer, the tourists have already paid and don't have a choice". I heard a very similar sentiment when drinking with some St Andrews caddies one evening at the Cross Keys Bar.

Now I'm sure that all sorts of weather is regularly played in, with the courses readily being much more playable in heavy wind and rain given their architecture and soil make up. But based on my admittedly small sample my personal experience tells me that the Scotsman who'll forsake a nice day in order to choose to play in a gale might be a bit of a stretch. To say a nice 10-20mph wind on a links is optimal is one thing, but to say that 20-25 with gusts up from there and rain coming down sideways is the desired challenge for a fun day out is bordering on being silly.

[John Kavanaugh]

Melvyn,

Are you saying that YT died from a broken heart or the first known case of suicide by golf?  I do believe it is well documented that he grew ill after his marathon match in poor weather.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jim

Please tell my long dead father, a son of St Andrews that playing in excess of 20-25 gusts is silly. This man born within 40 yards of the 18th Hole on TOC knew the courses of St Andrews well. This same man went swimming in the Step Rock open sea 50M pool and swam for Scotland. This is the great grandson of a man that went swimming in the sea off the West Sands every day of the year.

Silly, perhaps in your eyes, but the point being it’s true and so is the fact that golf is more fun in more challenging conditions. Golf is not really directed by the weather unless exceptional poor but by the character of the golfers.

Melvyn

John  you know nothing, my great grand Uncle did not die of a broken heart or for that matter from the result of the game depicted in the above watercolour. You need to spend more time in Scotland and get your facts right.

[Mike Sweeney]

Can anyone actually verify this guy's family heritage?

I find it hard to believe that cursing in a public forum is how Old Tom wants to be represented in the modern world.

[Bob_Huntley]

There is a term in American Football called 'piling on', meaning an unfair tactic that can cause considerable discomfort to the recipient.

From this and other of your observations it would seem as though you seek to be chastised, insulted and cryit down.

John Kavanaugh gave a very good explanation on a probable cause of death of Young Tom and it would seem quite possible it is true.

See:

A heart attack was the official cause of death; Young Tom had also played and won a marathon challenge match in terrible weather conditions a few weeks earlier, and this may have weakened him.[13]

[Mike Sweeney]

There is a term in American Football called 'piling on', meaning an unfair tactic that can cause considerable discomfort to the recipient.

From this and other of your observations it would seem as though you seek to be chastised, insulted and cryit down.

John Kavanaugh gave a very good explanation on a probable cause of death of Young Tom and it would seem quite possible it is true.

See:

A heart attack was the official cause of death; Young Tom had also played and won a marathon challenge match in terrible weather conditions a few weeks earlier, and this may have weakened him.[13]

Bob,

I just can't see how this guy is related to Old Tom or Young Tom. I can't imagine representing my family with continuous curse words on-line. I remember when I actually thought Gillette Silver was a real person. Now it is just some Twitter account: https://twitter.com/#!/gillettesilver

Hammy Hearst was a fake. I think this guy is a fake too.

[Sam Morrow]

I don't support the viewpoint in the original post.

[Jim Sherma]

Melvyn - if you re-read my post I did not say that playing in those conditions were silly, I played the Old Course in 20-25 with gusts up to 50 as measures at the R&A clubhouse and considered it one of the truly sublime experiences of my life. I said that someone, when given access and a choice, eschewing a nice brisk (10-15mph) sunny day to prefer playing in a wet gale is a stretch. I fully respect your family's history and all I was bringing to the table was the opinion stated in two conversations with other habitues of your country. While they may not have your provenance I would hope that their opinions are not thought less of for that. I for one will play in most any condition in order to play, as I think most serious golfers will. But when I travel to play a links course what is my preference? Sunny, 65-degrees and 10-15, not 45-degrees sideways rain and 20-25. Based on the conversations that I had while in Scotland I doubt that the generalized sentiment is similar.

[Craig Sweet]

Melvyn..there are no links courses in Vermont where I grew up, nor are there any in Montana, where I currently reside...I have played golf in snow...sleet...hail...106 degree heat...40mph winds....but I'm pretty sure that none of that qualifies, in your mind, as "golf" because none of it was on a links course...

Like I said Melvyn, you need help...seek it, please.

[Bill_McBride]

There is a term in American Football called 'piling on', meaning an unfair tactic that can cause considerable discomfort to the recipient.

From this and other of your observations it would seem as though you seek to be chastised, insulted and cryit down.

John Kavanaugh gave a very good explanation on a probable cause of death of Young Tom and it would seem quite possible it is true.

See:

A heart attack was the official cause of death; Young Tom had also played and won a marathon challenge match in terrible weather conditions a few weeks earlier, and this may have weakened him.[13]

Bob,

I just can't see how this guy is related to Old Tom or Young Tom. I can't imagine representing my family with continuous curse words on-line. I remember when I actually thought Gillette Silver was a real person. Now it is just some Twitter account: https://twitter.com/#!/gillettesilver

Hammy Hearst was a fake. I think this guy is a fake too.

I actually almost met MHM once, in June 2008 at Tain.  He wasn't able to meet me there but did leave a lovely bottle of Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or at the distillery in Tain.   We later drank it in a toast to Melvyn at Lundin Links during the Buda Cup.

So I think he's a real person, but his bitterness is hard to reconcile with the generosity of that bottle art Tain.   It's hard not to respond with equal vitriol.  I'm glad that most don't.

I really have a problem with his despicable attacks on David Tepper, one of the gentlemen of this site.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jim

If I miss read your comment I apologise, but my original question and the basis of this thread was

Do the Members of GCA.com support this view point……

The British Open is played on courses that are unfamiliar to me and in conditions that usually don't suit golf.

Some have answered the question even Sam was straight to the point with his answer. Conditions, being defined as the weather I say has little bearing (unless very severe) does not normally affect the game which can and is played in what many on this site would described as poor to very poor weather conditions, hense my referenceto my father. My point being that the game is more at home in adverse conditions, experienced generally but not solely on links courses. By using some common sense golf is played inland as well as on the links, but this was about The Open which is a links Championship. The original comment was on links courses not inland, its not about which is best or better.

Mike

My language is no worse than many others, don’t believe me the read the Merion threads just as one example. As for my golfing heritage, believe what you want.

Bob

With all due respect to you, Young Tommy did not die of a heart attack. By the time of the match with the Molesworth, YT was very tired from the pain of his recent loss (wife & child), but it did not kill him nor was it the cause of his death on Christmas Day, 6 weeks or so after the match It also had nothing to do with a heart attack or broken heart.
The R&A records until recently did not know how their foreman David Honeyman died (Old Tom’s Assistant)  

 
Craig

Again I must remind you that I am only talking about Links golf – being the location of The Open which was the original comment made by Tim.

Bill

Bitter, no I am not bitter in anyway, sorry, maybe for seeing many great opportunities for some great debated killed off thanks to attacks. As for your Gentleman friend DT, I have tried with PM’s to move forward, to clear the air but his response is to refer to me as Mr Spode, the leader of the ‘Blackshirts – see topic on Cullen first reply. Wow and you call him one of the Gentlemen on this site, seems we have a completely different meaning regards the word Gentleman. I am not without sin Bill but usually it’s via frustration or retaliation for some comment made against me or my family. What’s despicable, is not wanting to clear the air and move forward but using at every opportunity the need to refer to me as Mr Spode.

If only we had stayed with the topic, then we might have had an interesting number of posts.  

But again trying to get back to the topic in had -  Do the Members of GCA.com support this view point……

The British Open is played on courses that are unfamiliar to me and in conditions that usually don't suit golf.

Or to make the question simpler when was the last time you remember The Open played in conditions not suitable for golf?

Melvyn

[Mike Sweeney]

There is a term in American Football called 'piling on', meaning an unfair tactic that can cause considerable discomfort to the recipient.

From this and other of your observations it would seem as though you seek to be chastised, insulted and cryit down.

John Kavanaugh gave a very good explanation on a probable cause of death of Young Tom and it would seem quite possible it is true.

See:

A heart attack was the official cause of death; Young Tom had also played and won a marathon challenge match in terrible weather conditions a few weeks earlier, and this may have weakened him.[13]

Bob,

I just can't see how this guy is related to Old Tom or Young Tom. I can't imagine representing my family with continuous curse words on-line. I remember when I actually thought Gillette Silver was a real person. Now it is just some Twitter account: https://twitter.com/#!/gillettesilver

Hammy Hearst was a fake. I think this guy is a fake too.

I actually almost met MHM once, in June 2008 at Tain.  He wasn't able to meet me there but did leave a lovely bottle of Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or at the distillery in Tain.   We later drank it in a toast to Melvyn at Lundin Links during the Buda Cup.

So I think he's a real person, but his bitterness is hard to reconcile with the generosity of that bottle art Tain.   It's hard not to respond with equal vitriol.  I'm glad that most don't.

I really have a problem with his despicable attacks on David Tepper, one of the gentlemen of this site.

Bill,

First you introduce him here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=33028.0

then you "just missed him".

Come on, give it up. Who is this guy?

Send me an IM and I will tell you who Hammy Hearst was. 

I can't believe that Kavanaugh did not pick up on this first. He is slipping.

[Mike Sweeney]

Old Tom from Ohio suddenly shows up East Coast morning time. I am sure he was verrrrrry busy clipping the sheep this morning and was toooooo busy to post a response from England!!

My guess is Tom MacWood.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mike

You are so clever, yet forgive me but just what has it to do with the topic in hand?

As for who am I, as I said just an ordinary bloke no better or worse that the majority of Members on this site.

Bill and others are remarkably quiet when someone like you try to take the piss out of me and my own, but remarkably vocal if I would do it in return to you.

I suppose for you it’s like riding when playing golf, you do not have to put anything into the game, but you expect to be taken for a serious golfer when you will not commit to playing the game like serious golfers. You want to attack me, then do so but on what I write and say, not what you think I write and say.

Clearly you have no interest in posting on the subject matter relating to golf but just on going moaning about me.

Let’s hope I continue to be a figment of your imagination, think that will please all?

[Brett Hochstein]

If the weather is so unsuitable there then how is that where the game began, organically and without formal design at that?  No natural climate nor conditions are as well suited to the game of golf as those in the British Isles.

You can play year round even in northern Scotland.  Can't say that for most of the States.  Having grown up in Michigan, I was thrilled to tee it up in December and January during my 8 months in Fife.  Or November. Or February. Or March...

[Jim Sherma]

Melvyn - apology accepted. To answer the original question... The British Open is played on courses that are unfamiliar to me and in conditions that usually don't suit golf.

No, I do not agree with that statement. I have been fortunate to have taken two trips to Ireland and one to Scotland and consider the courses and the style of golf that they ask for to be somewhat familiar to me. I would love to be able to play that type of golf on a regular basis and one of my dreams is to have the financial freedom to be an ex-pat living in either Ireland or Scotland for at least part of the year. Clearly playing regularly in those areas would involve playing in variable weather, including all of the extremes, which I would do gladly, although there would certainly be days that I would choose not to play unless it was a competition. This is no different than my choices living in Pennsylvania. Does stagnant 90+degrees with high humidity "suit" golf? Does 35 degrees and frozen greens "suit" golf? Does high gusty winds coupled with rain "suit" golf? I'm not sure what definitions we want to use for "suit" but I've gladly played in all of these conditions within the past year because that was what the weather was when it was time to golf. That fact doesn't change what types of conditions I would choose to play in however.

I guess this really boils down to semantics. If "suit" means what conditions one is willing to play in than almost all weather "suits" golf as I would bet that most posters here have played in most conditions where the course is at least marginally playable. If "suit" means what conditions one would want to play a given course in, and this would very well be different for different courses, than that becomes a much more personal decision and clearly limits the conditions that would fall under the definition. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Bill:

I thought the exchange between you and Tom Paul from the 2008 thread was extremely prescient:

Quote from: TEPaul on January 22, 2008, 02:31:31 PM
Melvyn sent some of us an email expressing his dismay by a thread last summer criticizing the architecture of Old Tom Morris.

I emailed him back giving him my take on that kind of thing.

I'd be glad to post my response to him on this thread but I think I'd prefer to wait on whether he wants me to or not.

That's how I got acquainted with him too, Tom.  I suggested to him that he post that email on GCA.com -- if he could stand the ensuing endless discussions!