[Mark Saltzman]

Johns Island Club - West Course

Vero Beach, Florida

Mr. Fazio told me in 1986 that he thought Johns Island West was one of his most underrated courses, and that I would agree with ... I liked it a lot. (7.)  

Exceptional early Fazio (that for some reason felt a lot like Dye) on some of the best terrain in Florida.  My favourite golf course in Florida.  Extremely underrated, never talked about, and very worthy of discussion.





Scorecard






Routing




Clubhouse






Entrance - You don't find this by accident.

[Scott Warren]

Looks interesting from the aerial. Looking forward to the pics.

Great work as always providing such thorough tours -- I know how time-consuming they can be.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 1: Par 4, 391 Yards

The first two holes are not the most exciting on the golf course, routed over the flattest terrain and with two of the most straightforward greens.  Still, right from the first tee you know you are in for something different than the 'typical modern Fazio design', - there is lots of width, very little shaping [at least that was obvious to me] and a noticeable absence of fairway bunkers.

From the back two sets of tees, the fairway lays at angle to the tee, requiring a more precise combination of both distance and line.  The fairway narrows, the longer the tee shot and many will choose to hit less than driver.




From the forward three sets of tees, the hole plays straightaway:








The most notable feature on the approach is a large drop-off in the fairway short of the green.  The approach begs for a shot to be run onto the green (which is possible given the reasonably firm conditioning), but a small patch of rough 20 yards short of the green calls for increased precision.  Anything played too far left will find the drop-off and will leave a very difficult pitch from fairway cut over a deep bunker cut into the side of the green.




The terrain at the 1st slopes gradually right-to-left, as does the green.







Hole 2: Par 4, 351 Yards

A simple hole for those willing to lay-up away from the bunker on the right - lots of width 130 yards from the green.  Golfers choosing to hit driver off the tee must be precise as finding the menacing bunker right, or worse the hazard/trees on the left, can quickly turn this birdie hole into bogie or worse.






The bunker on the right is deceptive.  Some [or at least I] may think it protects the ideal line into the green, but this bunker is completely penal in nature and tee shots that challenge it are left with a difficult semi-blind approach.




The ideal line is up the left side of the fairway, leaving this ideal angle of approach into a very challenging and deceptive green.




The green is shaped almost with 3 wings.  The first wing is the only portion of the green visible from the fairway and it slopes back toward the tee.  The middle wing is the high point of the green and is a plateau (and I small one at that).  The final

portion of the green slopes to the right and toward the back of the green - very difficult to get to.

Hole 3: Par 4, 402 Yards

An extremely difficult hole and the most interesting of the trio of opening par-4s.  Something about this hole, especially the green site, shaping and bunkering screamed Dye to me - I don't know why - anyone else see this??


The fairway bunkering is deceptive as the bunkers left and right appear as though they are at the same distance, but they are staggered by some 30 yards.  The ideal line into the green is protected by the left bunkers, but the fairway slopes significantly to the left so anything challenging it too closely will kick into the left rough.






Short of the bunkers, the fairway cut extends farther left than is obvious from the tee.




An ideal drive still leaves a very and intimidating difficult approach.  The green is protected by a huge drop-off left and one of the deepest bunkers on the course.  The front of the green has a massive false-front that will send the ball 30 yards down the fairway if found.  The right is a combination of mounds and swales, but if one has to miss somewhere, right is probably it.




Short-left




Short-right




Green from right




Green from behind - note 'Sunday pin position back-right'




Green from front - note false-front.. awfully demanding given this is going to by a long-iron+ approach for most.

[John_Conley]

One of my all-time faves.  Can you post a photo of Ron's Island (if it is still there)?

[Mark Saltzman]

One of my all-time faves.  Can you post a photo of Ron's Island (if it is still there)?

John, Ron's Island?

[John_Conley]

Mark, when you turn at the thrift store to go north to the somewhat-hidden entrance.  There's a trailer park owned by someone with an obvious sense of humor. 

I love everything about JIW.  You're right...one of the best in Florida.

[Tim Gavrich]

Way cool.  Based on its location, there are tons of people who live within a couple minles of the place who have ZERO idea it's there, which I'm sure is by design.  Same goes for Red Stick, which is literally a few hundred yards down the street.  Did you play Red Stick, Mark?

[Anthony Gray]

  Can't wait for that hole behind the clubhouse.

  Anthony

[jim_lewis]

Mark:

If you want to attract more interest in this photo tour, I suggest that you skip ahead to #17, which is one of the coolest go/no go par 5's I have seen.

Jim Lewis

[Matthew Petersen]

Mark:

If you want to attract more interest in this photo tour, I suggest that you skip ahead to #17, which is one of the coolest go/no go par 5's I have seen.

Jim Lewis

That hole looks awesome from the aerial. I also am interested to see 15.

[Mark Saltzman]

John, that is really funny, I'm sorry I missed it.

Tim, I tried to play Red Stick, but unfortunately I ran into access issues.  I have heard it is a very good course, but very private, sharing a lot of members with Orchid Island in Vero.

Anthony, it will be a long wait, that's the 18th (as seen from the 13th green).

Jim, agreed, 17 is awesome and that is a thrilling second shot if going for it.  Can't believe it is never discussed here.

Matthew, 15 is a really good short par-4.  There was some [not a lot] discussion in an earlier thread I started, called "par 4 of the day": http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50988.0.html

[GBoring]

Mark,

Johns island West holds a special place in my heart.  I served as the Asst. Super there for almost 4 years immediately after college.  I always thought the course never got the recognition it deserved but I believe that was the way the membership wanted it.  We held a local US Open qualifier one year and the scores were very high.  When those greens are firm and fast the place becomes very difficult.

[John_Conley]

The view of the clubhouse atop the hill behind 18 is the finest finishing shot view I've seen.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 4: Par 4, 535 Yards

A very strong par-5, that is largely about the green site.  There is a lot of visual distraction on the 4th tee -- water well left, bunkering left, bunkering right, top-shot bunkering, a rolling fairway -- all of this distracts from what is a very easy, wide-open tee shot.




Tee shots up the right leave the more difficult second for those laying-up [and the preferred angle for those trying to reach the green in two].  If laying up, the golfer must choose to either play left, or try to carry a set of trees 100 yards short of the green.  Lots of room to miss right as long as the distance is there.




Laying up from the left is a much easier task.




The approach to green is very uphill, played over some extremely undulating terrain.  There is no running the ball onto this green and shots that are played too near the green will leave an awkward lie from the fairway cut.




Approaching from the left is intimidating, played over extremely deep bunkering.




A rather flat green, that is much larger than appears from the fairway




From behind.




Bunkering left of the green.  Note size of flag to get a sense of scale/depth of bunker.










Hole 5: Par 3, 125 Yards

Not much to write about here.  Fairly dull, downhill par-3.  Happy to be corrected, but this was not my favourite hole on the course...












Hole 6: Par 5, 525 Yards

The 2nd in a series of 4 very strong par-5s.  The fairway at the 6th is shaped like an hour-glass, widening and narrowing, requiring the golfer to choose the length of his shot carefully.

Tee shots between 220-270 yards in length will play to the wide point of the fairway and the tee shot is fairly simple.  The ideal line is up the left side of the fairway -- a difficult spot to get to given the contour of the land and the OB.  Longer hitters must either throttle back or be very precise.




A look at the way the fairway narrows and widens.




On the second shot, the golfer has the option of laying up to the trees, or playing left of them to a blind lower fairway.




Laying up to the trees leave an approach that is played from a level lie at equal elevation to the green, but one must be careful not to hit the trees with the approach.




The view of the lower fairway as the golfer crests the hill.




The approach from the lower fairway.




Significant fall-offs and deep bunkering guard both sides of the green.  A very nice look to these bunkers, benched into the side of the hill.

[John_Cullum]

Hole 5: Par 3, 125 Yards

Not much to write about here.  Fairly dull, downhill par-3.  Happy to be corrected, but this was not my favourite hole on the course...

But it's a redan hole.

[jim_lewis]

Mark:

It looks like you may have lost enthusiasm for continueing this thread. I still wish you would at least post photos of #17, which is one of the coolest holes in Florida.

Jim Lewis

[Mark Saltzman]

Sorry Jim. Been away. I'll continue tonight hopefully.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 7: Par 3, 193 Yards

Like the 1st par 3 (and the other two par-3s), the 7th plays downhill and is somewhat lacking in character.  If there is something holding JIW back from top-100 standing, it is the lack of interest in the par-3s.











Hole 8: Par 4, 336 Yards

I didn't get a great look at the 8th as the group in front of me invited me to play through, but it looks like a very interesting hole.  Lots of room left, but the unknown beckons to the right, tempting the golfer to cut the corner.






The green, tucked into a punchbowl, is very interestingly shaped with two arms extending to the left.








Hole 9: Par 4, 439 Yards

The 9th is a very stout par-4, playing into the wind.  The fairway bunkers are out of reach for most, 250 yards from the members tee.




Many golfers will be approaching from a very long way out.  The green is open in front, allowing for shots to run onto the green.  Wild fairway undulation adds an element of luck to this approach.




Getting closer to the green, one can see that this is a 60-yard long biarritz green.  Though the centre swale is not as deep as on a traditional biarritz, it is clearly there and a very difficult feature given the length of the hole.

[Carl Nichols]

So Mark, you like this course better than CC of Florida? I've played neither, but from just the pictures (and recognizing all of the limitations inherent in such comparisons), they seem like they should be flipped.

[Mark Saltzman]

Carl, I believe the superior terrain at JIW is a big part of the reason I prefer it to CCF.

The back-nine is by far the better nine.

[Anthony_Nysse]

JIW is a tremendous course that I think, struggles in its notority because of it's location. It's elevation is similar to Jupiter Hills and the routing has a great flow to it, wonderful use of scrub areas, no homes, good green complexes and yes, the back 9 is VERY good with some really cool, risk reward holes and fun par 5s. I don't think that a fair comparison between CCFL and JIW can be made as they are in 2 different leagues.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 10: Par 4, 402 Yards

The following trio of par-4s is the best and most varied stretch of golf on the course.  Starting on the 10th, I was blown away by the interest of this hole.  A centreline bunker splits this 70 yard wide fairway.  Laying back short of the centreline is an option, leaving 160 yards into the green.  The entire fairway slopes toward the left side of the fairway, but from there the approach is more difficult.  The approach from the right gives the golfer a better view of the green as well as the better angle.

Tee View:




Short of Centreline:




Left of Centreline:




Right of centreline:




Golfers that are able to carry the centreline bunker must deal with an extremely narrowed fairway, but if the golfer finds the fairway, a large downslope will leave only a pitch into the green.




This intimidating bunker/scrub area left of the fairway reminds me somewhat of the bunker left of Sand Hills #11.




Green Front-Right




Green Front-Left




Green Back-Left




Green Behind




Closer look at Fairway Movement




10th as seen from 11 tee:





Hole 11: Par 4, 296 Yards

Very short par-4 that plays well under 300 yards on a straight line to the green.  The tee shot tempts the golfer to try to carry the massive waste bunker on the left, but for those unable to reach the green the ideal play is to the right, where the fairway is widest and from where the golfer has the best approach angle into the green.

Back Tee View:




Middle Tee View: Interestingly, while the angle from here to drive the green is easier, the lay-up tee shot is more difficult.




A look back to the tee from the fairway:




Approach from left:




Approach from right:




A surprisingly flat green for a short par-4:




A deep bunker and fall-off over the green cannot be seen from the fairway.  Recovering from over the green to this back-to-front sloping green is nearly impossible.






A couple of looks from behind:







Hole 12: Par 4, 406 Yards

The most difficult hole on the back-nine.  Another hole that tempts the golfer to challenge the inside of the dogleg, but for most the ideal play is down the left side of the fairway.




Approaching from the right leaves a shorter approach, but a difficult angle, especially to back pins.






A very difficult fortress-like green, sloping severely back-to-front with a large tier in the middle and guarded on three sides by deep bunkers/slopes.

[Alex Miller]

So Mark, you like this course better than CC of Florida? I've played neither, but from just the pictures (and recognizing all of the limitations inherent in such comparisons), they seem like they should be flipped.

Ditto X 1000

Thanks for all your tours, Mark!

[Mike Hendren]

Mark, I'm really enjoying this tour and find the course highly interesting, including this unique cascading/waterfall bunker:



With all that sand to rake, I'm guessisng this is how Japanese rock gardeners envision heaven.

Mike

[Randy Van Sickle]

Mark - Thanks for the tour.  JIW is one of my all-time favorites.  I haven't been there in two years, but have played the course about 25 times over the last fifteen years.  My parents sold their house down there, but still maintain a memberhsip and I've felt it would be worth the trip down to Vero just to play JIW one more time.  Great elevation changes for Florida, a HUGE amount of trouble almost everywhere you look, a very difficult course, but still lots of fun to play.  Too bad you couldn't spend more time on the eighth hole.  That is one of my favorites, and a classic risk-reward short par 4.  Looking forward to the rest of the tour.  (I would also agree that the back nine is more interesting than the front and I could play 17 over and over and over again.)

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