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Tiny Tim

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2001, 01:31:35 PM »
Rye on a not so wet July day
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2001, 01:35:33 PM »
Huntingdon Valley
Cedarbrook G.C (about a month ago)
Oakmont (about two months ago)
Royal County Down (middle of Sept)

The latter two were fast everywhere and both were the most perfect "maintenance meld" I ever saw! Neither was browned out at all, both had that dull green sheen which means you know what! I'm beginning to think the perfect "maintenance meld" is almost as important as the architecture itself or at the least it sure does highlight the architecture to the max!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2001, 02:25:54 PM »
Josh Mahar, the superintendent at Wild Horse in Gothenburg, keeps his course consistently fast and firm in the fairway, even though the fairways are bluegrass which must be cut slightly higher than the bents or poa.  And, while the the length of the blue and fescue may be the same, the texture of the leaf makes blues harder to keep as fast.  Wild Horse's greens are lightening fast and putt true.   The fast apron cut fesuce surrounds, which you can find yourself on often due to firm greens, add to the options of putting or chipping from off the green.  Josh is a magician because he has one of the most modest of budgets and equipment inventories in the business.  I have never experienced better conditions anywhere than what Josh provides everyday.

Cory Crandall is the super at Sand Hills and though I did not get to play it this year, is Josh's collegue and they collaborate on issues.

Barona Creek was pretty firm and fast, but I don't think any thing is the equal of Nebraska Sand Hills conditions.  Lik Mike D says, the northern regions of the upper great lakes is great at the end of the year, when they blow out the irrigation lines and continue to cut the greens and fairways for the few weeks at the end.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

scott wood

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2001, 03:45:37 PM »
Apache Stronghold, last weekend was really "firm and fast" without being overly so.....and stood in stark contrast to Estancia and DM Chiricauhua (sp?) the day before and after....several posts on GCA had remarked on the poor(er) conditioning, but the greens were fine, and the fairwyas ok and improving....my urging would be to make the trek to Globe Az.!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2001, 03:57:25 PM »
Olde Kinderhook played fast and firm without being concrete.
Every time I wanted to bounce it, it bounced. :) Excellent ground game test.
This was in August, heat index around 105. Marvelous condition...er.....maintenance meld.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"chief sherpa"

John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2001, 04:11:40 PM »
the muni course i grew up near in Monroe, la. It was a fast and firm as any course I have played before or since. I learned to bounce a ball in from 40 or 50 yards short of the green. This was much differnent than my home Bayou Desaird CC that i grew up playing 80% of the time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs_

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2001, 09:10:16 PM »
The two courses that fit the description the best this year are Old Chatham (near Durham, NC) and my home course, Wake Forest GC, which has been hard and fast for the last two months during the drought.  It's not normally this way even in a drought because they normally overseed with rye, but decided not to this year.

Twisted Dune was hard and fast and Beechtree was moderately so.

Lost Canyons - Shadow was moderately h&f.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2001, 04:32:28 AM »
Unfortunately some of the most interesting courses I saw this year were softer than they should have been.  

However, F&F was definitely in sheening evidence at;

Baltusrol Upper
Chester River (Findlay/Ault)
Fenway
Philmont (North)
Running Deer
Soaring Eagles (upstate NY)
Lehigh
Valley Forge (Findlay)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2001, 07:39:40 AM »

Bandon/Pacific Dunes

The Golf Club at Newcastle (as firm and fast as it gets in Seattle)

Cushing Country Club (A wonderful Perry Maxwell course in small town Oklahoma)

The Wolf (New Dye course plays very firm)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2001, 08:22:29 AM »
Matt Ward and JohnV were right about Barona Creek. I landed a couple of shots 40-50 yards from the pin and had them roll up perfectly. It's not anything like a links, but it plays very well in those conditions. I don't know how to compare Barona to Shinnecock or anything like that, but Barona is an excellent course with very firm and fast conditions.

By the way, I disagree that Paa-Ko plays this way, although I love the course so I don't mind either way   :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2001, 08:26:17 AM »
A toss up between three courses:

1. Shinnecock

2. Cruden Bay

3. Royal Aberdeen
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
#nowhitebelt

Todd_Eckenrode

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2001, 09:39:22 AM »
Sandy Clark's done a wonderful job with conditions at Barona, under some difficult circumstances.  He understands that the ground game was vital to the whole concept, in terms of strategy, playability, fun, and creating something different in San Diego.  It's not easy taking that step in a region where it's not really understood, but education builds momentum for acceptance.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2001, 10:15:32 AM »
My fastest and firmest in 2001:

(All on Long Island)
Atlantic Golf Club (Bobby Raynum)
Shinnecock (Mark Michaud)
National (Karl Olsen)
Maidstone
Garden City
The Creek
Montouk Downs
East Hampton
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

A Clay Man

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2001, 12:27:23 PM »
;D I have just returned from my first nine holes as a Pinionite but it wasn't at the hills. It was the back nine of a course owned and operated by the local comm college. Ken Dye designed, On this day it was the firmest fastest course I personally have ever had the pleasure of playing. With a storm moving in I didn't want to risk what could potentially be my last round for awhile. So, I paid my nine whole dollars and teed off alone. The course was  a natural hiddem gem it would easily fit in many other categories in this forum. The routing was as solid as any new course i've seen with only one hellayshish climb of over 100 yds to the 17th. This side was comprised of 3 4's 3 5's and 3 3's. To give everyone a notion as how firm I hit eight iron into the longest of the 5's (downwind) 398 yd. drive! YAHOO what a treat to have found my firstball in the center of the fairway with 151 remaining. Since I never saw it, finding it there was a shock :o
It was apparent little earth needed to moved for the constuction yet there was tons of movement mimicing the surrounds, and what bunkers were made were minamilist and were all perfectly placed. Oh yeah the annual is $310. The frontside was built by El Paso (??) in the early fifties. Report will someday follow. 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MN_turfguy

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2001, 07:25:49 PM »
Interlachen, every day from mid June through about Labor Day...  It was a mushy spring, and we got a little rain this fall, but in between...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Stettner

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2001, 09:49:19 PM »
Wildhorse, in Davis, California (Yeah Jeff Brauer) always plays very fast.

The Links of North Dakota played wonderfully the one time I played it in July.

Southern Dunes, fighting a drought, was a lot of fun in May.

Coyote Moon, in Truckee, CA played fast. Just ask Gib, who I saw hit a 350 yard drive on number 10 with the smallest backswing this side of Azinger.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Hidden Gem

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2001, 06:41:58 AM »
When I think of Fast & Firm, my initial thought goes out to "Laurel Creek" - Moorestown, NJ.  (Always fast and firm - anytime) I am amazed how the "Sup." is able to keep the greens and fairways "cropped" so low, without an adverse affect on the conditioning.  

I loved this place when it first opened (Pre - home building), but was never a fan of the routing. Still, a unique course for the area, and enjoyable to go play now and then.....

Matt and Mike C, - what's your take on this place?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Solario (Guest)

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2001, 09:05:14 AM »
Champions Gate International was the firmest I saw all year.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ClarkW

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2001, 02:55:45 PM »
I have to concur with TEPaul on this one and go with Oakmont as my "Fastest/Firmest" this year. I got a chance to play it a handful of times this year from May through October and it was a maddening "perfect 10" each time. Always seems to be in great condition.

Runner-up would go to Royal Dornoch in late August. In fact, I woke up and played it one last time as a single just before 7:00 AM on my last day there before flying out. Now that was a thrilling experience.

Now that I think about it, it wasn't a bad summer! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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