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Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« on: December 07, 2001, 06:42:44 PM »
We always talk about fast and firm but which courses actually delivered on those two virtues this year when you played them?

I have to think about it for a bit but one of mine is definitely Wilmington Municipal, NC. Greenkeeper: Greg Cross. Another would be Bandon Dunes, Greenkeeper: Troy Russell. A third for sure would be Russ Davis at Beechtree.

Let's make a list of such courses and acknowledge the greenkeepers behind them, shall we?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
And of course...
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2001, 06:58:45 PM »
Huntingdon Valley. Greenkeeper: Scott Anderson.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

jglenn

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2001, 07:19:30 PM »
Because I went to Scotland this spring, it's a question that is too easy to answer...  ;)

We've pretty much reduced shotmaking and strategy to its dumbest form when our approach shots could land and then stop on the green.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2001, 08:53:18 PM »
Pacific Dunes in August without a doubt.  The drawn/hooked tee shot below the Shoe bunker on #2 wouldn't stop in anything resembling a decent place!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2001, 08:56:41 PM »
That's easy for me - CAMP CREEK.  I got to play with the Supe and pleaded with him to keep the course in the condition it is now since it is new.  It brings a ton of strategy to this Tom Fazio course.  If you had soft greens, a lot would be lost.  (BTW:  Their Supe is a very strong player  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2001, 11:19:08 PM »
Roddy Ranch for me.  New course in the bay area.  Very firm and fast when I played a few months ago.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2001, 04:31:23 AM »
Old Course
Shinnecock (Marchaud)
The Bridge (Tiska)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

A_Clay_Man

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2001, 04:58:24 AM »
I don't think this counts but... I did play Shadow Mountain just prior to the closing for overseeding so it was as dry as the preverbial bone. ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_DeVries

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2001, 05:59:25 AM »
Dan Lucas keeps The Kingsley Club's fescue fast and firm throughout the year and it will only get better in the years to come.

Just about any course that you can play in northern MI, or similar environmental conditions, very late in the fall or sometimes early in the spring before mowing will be dried out due to the ecological cycle of the plants.  I especially like a puffy Poa early spring play when my game is rusty and you have no expectations so getting a goofy lie is just pure fun and makes you invent a shot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick Hitt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2001, 06:20:15 AM »
Shinnecock in June was as fast and firm as it could be. The greens had that bongo sound when the ball bounced on them. Mark Michaud has the place in the sweet spot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

WoodironAndy

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2001, 06:25:34 AM »
Courses that I played this year that featured firm and fast conditions:

                1) The Creek
                2) East Hampton
                3) Beechtree
                4) Mystic Dunes
                5) Pacific Dunes
                6) Garden City Mens
                7) Wente Vineyards
                8) Paako Ridge
                9) Champions Gate Internationaal
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Will E

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2001, 06:42:59 AM »
Monroe (La.) MUNY, Supe GOD
a nine hole course that is so hard we've adopted a local rule here that you have to putt after your second shot on all par 4s.
Many of you would love the strategy involved on this classic layout.
On #1 there is a cement wall bordering the left of the green that you can use as a backboard if your tee shot is too far right and you are blocked out by the trees.
#2 is a pushup postage stamp green that could double as a basketball court.
#3 should be the model for all par 4s under 300 yards. Two large trees block the entrance to the green. To drive this green you either need to hit a low runner under the trees, or take a hard fade left of the trees and carry Monroe's Water Treatment plant bordering the left side of the fairway. The local rule here is that you must putt after your tee shot.
#4 not much here, short par 4 with a road and a church on your left if you snipe it.
#5 One of the finest par 4 1/2 holes ever. Only a perfectly positioned drive will allow for a clear second shot to a difficult sloping green.
#6 A tough drive out of the shoot to a generous fairway. The small push up green may be the toughest to hit on the entire course.
#7 Perhaps the strongest par 4 on the course. An incredible green complex with water on the right.
#8 Par 3 of 170 yards with a green that requires you to stay below the hole.
#9 Reachable with a hard hook around the trees, a par 5 that is a grand finish.

I think the greenfees here are around $6 per lap.

If you visit the MUNY you MUST make a point to meet the professional.
The professional is Johnny Myers, one of the world's top teachers. Johnny has been "ranked" among the top 10 instructors in the world by Golf Mag. His students have included Gil Morgan, current tour school grad Brian Bateman, Nancy Ramsbottom, and just about any strong player from N. La.. Amazing considering he doesn't even have a range!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

BillV

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2001, 07:25:44 AM »
Sitler Golf in Kutztown, PA

Greens like concrete and the surrounds even firmer!

I usually shoot 4-5 under at least.  Love the conditions!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Eric Pevoto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2001, 09:01:40 AM »
Shooters post above reminded me of the muny I grew up playing on the Gulf Coast of Texas.  Some summers, a ball hit too far into the "rough" (fairways too if it was really dry) could likely become lodged in huge cracks in the soil.  It wasn't uncommon to have half the ball above ground!  Now that's firm!

We too had a top-notch golf professional who now works with a guy named Eldrick.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
There's no home cooking these days.  It's all microwave.Bill Kittleman

Golf doesn't work for those that don't know what golf can be...Mike Nuzzo

Ed_Baker

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2001, 09:10:02 AM »
Myopia Hunt Club  M.W. Burrows (asst)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2001, 10:24:48 AM »
All the courses I played in Florida during the drought last Feb.
 :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

cbradmiller

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2001, 10:42:49 AM »
Shinnecock.. this June, Winged Foot (west) this November, after most of the maintance work was done for the year. Both also have done a great job of removing growth and/or trees in the past 2 years!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rich_Goodale

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2001, 11:18:56 AM »
Shinnethingy, but I'd only give it a 3 on my 10 to 0 "Soak" scale, where 10 is "Completely soaked, guacamole texture" and 0 is that nirvana when you can hear the greens "crunch" under your feet.

It was not a great year for firm and fast, at least when and where I managed to play.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2001, 11:27:15 AM »
Without a doubt Royal County Down.. :D :D :D

I met Troy Russell and Ken Day the supers at Bandon/Pac Dunes and they told me they wished they could get the conditions as fast in Oregon as it was in Newcastle.  And this is with the fairways still showing signs of having been aerated.  I dont know who the super was at RCD but he did a fabulous job..

But I must admit Troy and Ken would be my runners up as well because both courses in Oregon played faster and furious than anything else I played this year..

Honorable mention: Shinnecock and National
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2001, 11:31:15 AM »
Oops I forgot Sand Hills...The course was playing very firm and fast when I visited in September..Perfect playing conditions. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Matt_Ward

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2001, 11:35:21 AM »
I have to say the following in no particular order:

The Bridge / George Tiska (NY)

Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon / Kelby Hughes (NV)

Pacific Dunes / Ken Nice (OR)

The Kingsley Club / Dan Lucas (MI)

Carnegie Abbey / Dean Chance (RI)

Barona Creek / Sandy Clark (CA) (just stopping an approach on the par-3 16th requires Herculean efforts!!!)

Coral Canyon / Glen Evans (St. George, UT)

del Lago / Jim Sims (AZ -- just south of Tucson) Could be best value golf in immediate area!

Saratoga National / Joe Lucas (NY) Excellent fast and firm conditions although site is literally engulfed in wetlands ... kudos to Roger Rulewich and team.

Coyote Moon / Joel Blaker (Truckee, CA)

These are just a few I can name immediately ...  I will add a few more in the next day or so. Congratulations to the hard working staffs in making such conditions a real treat to experience!

P.S. Someone mentioned GCGC and I have to say it was far from firm and fast when I played it during the middle of a heat wave this past summer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JMD

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2001, 12:56:07 PM »
Shinnecock (in October); The Country Club (also in October).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JohnV

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2001, 01:07:51 PM »
The following 6 were all definitely in the fast enough category this past year:

Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Barona
Wild Horse
The Links at Paso Robles (probably haven't got any sprinklers that work there.)
Prarie Dunes

Honorable Mention to:
Pajaro (Pete, forgive me, but I've only seen it in the wet season)
Apache Stronghold (they were punching and sanding the greens when I was there.)
Rio Secco (not too wet for a resort course)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

JayC

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2001, 01:12:43 PM »
Gothenburg, Nebraska's Wildhorse Golf Club  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul_Turner

Re: Fastest/firmest courses you saw in 2001?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2001, 01:17:44 PM »
RYE.

In the middle of a very wet spring.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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