Royal Troon in 2016

« **Reply #50 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:56:54 AM »

The 7th did not really stick in my mind as a stand out hole. As for the postage stamp when you break it down what are its GCA merits bearing in mind it is the courses signature hole. It is short and the green is very small. Missing the green always leaves a difficult recovery as it has no bailout shot. The green is so small that in essence there is a very small area to land the ball if you want to stay on the green in normal summer conditions.

or me it is a one shot, no choice type of hole which is very challenging but has little if any GCA merit. If it were on a non Open rota course it would probably not be on the radar.

Jon

« **Reply #51 on:** March 11, 2012, 08:30:47 AM »

In my opinion, Troon is just a smidgen below the top 5 courses in Scotland in overall quality/experience, but that is hardly a bad place to be. Unlike most others, I think that the front 9 is just as interesting as the back 9, although in many different ways. It is an anti-Old Course in that you go out on a journey which seemingly lies all open and simplistic in front of you but turns out to be highly complex and fraught with danger if you lose your concentration. Coming back it looks complex, but is really more simple--if you believe that "simple" means "hit a long straight drive and a mid-iron/rescue club with the proper line and length, and then try to not three putt on greens of subtlety rather than ostentation."

It is a very worthy Open venue, and 2016 cannot come soon enouhg, at least for me.

« **Reply #52 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:17:18 AM »

I am not sure how this became about comparing Troon to Prestwick. They are so different in every way except geographic proximity. To like one over the other has little to do with the Open Championship being there or the merits of the selection.
I will agree with those who commented on the lack of warmth one gets there from the club. I can say much like Muirfield one feels the need to just enjoy the golf, the history and not get to caught up in warmth. I have found both warm and cold treatment at both. I tried not to let it effect the experience of playing there and exploring this grand course. Rich is on the money for how it fits into the bigger picture from a ratings viewpoint. Although I might put it at 5th myself. By the by Bob, I too am a Western Gailles fan.

« **Reply #53 on:** March 11, 2012, 01:47:41 PM »

So we now gauge causes because they qualify for ‘The Open’. I suppose that’s an interesting approach, but I thought we were talking about the course and the day to day experience. So I yet again say the course for me does not do for me what it seems to do for some others.

As I have said I would happily drive past Troon heading for Prestwick because Troon leaves me with an itch I cannot scratch which is, I suppose rather frustrating and I suspect the reason for my slight disappointment in the place. But then we all look for different things when it comes to a golf course, - just look to Castle Stuart feeling the need to add fake rotten wooden sleeper to convey age to a bunker that everyone knew was a new course – just what sort of mentality would come up with that. But then we all look to different aspects of a course, it’s just the first time I have noticed fake aging being added to a brand new course, totally tacky and classless not to mention rather in bag taste for a course in Scotland.

Judge for yourselves on the following links, remembering are you going to be playing in The Open, if not then look closer at Prestwick & St Nicholas as for me they offer so much more.

Prestwick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDIxul7rHQw

Prestwick St Nicholas
http://www.prestwickstnicholas.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=53

Troon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzAUoyYk88k

Melvyn

« **Reply #54 on:** March 11, 2012, 02:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on March 11, 2012, 11:17:18 AM

I am not sure how this became about comparing Troon to Prestwick. They are so different in every way except geographic proximity. To like one over the other has little to do with the Open Championship being there or the merits of the selection.
I will agree with those who commented on the lack of warmth one gets there from the club. I can say much like Muirfield one feels the need to just enjoy the golf, the history and not get to caught up in warmth. I have found both warm and cold treatment at both. I tried not to let it effect the experience of playing there and exploring this grand course. Rich is on the money for how it fits into the bigger picture from a ratings viewpoint. Although I might put it at 5th myself. By the by Bob, I too am a Western Gailles fan.

Tiger,

my experience of both Troon and Muirfield could not have been further apart. Troon was probably the worst golfing experience I have ever had though I hasten to add it was to do with the reception we received from the people and this has certainly tainted my opinion of the course. Muirfield is possibly the best experience I have had golfing wise. Club and people were brilliant and the course excellent.

The funny thing is I will probably never go back to Troon because of the bad experience but will possible also not return to Muirfield as it could never live up to the magical first time and so probably disappoint a second time.

Jon

« **Reply #55 on:** March 11, 2012, 03:31:55 PM »

I never understand the bad press Muirfield gets for the attitude of its members and staff. I have played there a number ofttimes as the guest of a member and three or four times as a visitor. I have not noticed any difference in the welcome and the service. I am sure, historically, this was not the case but, in recent years, the visitor experience is, in my book, as good as it gets.

« **Reply #56 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:20:03 PM »

As much as I love Muirfield, I along with a numbers of other golfers have not experienced the full quality of welcome that one expects from of club of this age and quality. Certainly changed from my father’s day, but still love the place but not as much as Luffness, that is special for me.

Alas I have to place the problem at the feet of the current administration as they can come across as rather short in manners department when being asked simple questions.

Melvyn

« **Reply #57 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:35:02 PM »

Melvyn,

When did you last play Muirfield?

« **Reply #58 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:47:08 PM »

Melvyn,

Quote

they can come across as rather short in manners department when being asked simple questions.

It's terribly frustrating, I agree, when you ask someone a simple, direct question and you get rudeness in reply, or even worse -- they just flatly refuse to answer.

Actually, while I've got you, I do have a question of my own. Have you been to Askernish since the course was revived?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

« **Reply #59 on:** March 11, 2012, 06:44:53 PM »

Scott

Having undertaken a search upon my family and my life I thought you had or knew all the answers.

Is your life that boring that need to know information on people and by the way who else on this site have you or are in the process of investigated? Yes your life must indeed be missing something hence you keep asking the same question over and over again.

Had you asked me openly or via a PM I would have furnished you with most of the information you seek, but the underhanded way you approached it sickened me and I will not respond to you again.

As for Muirfield, they still show more consideration than you.

You and I are done.

« **Reply #60 on:** March 11, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »

That's unfair and wildly inaccurate, Melvyn.

I first asked the question very politely here: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51173.msg1168016.html#msg1168016

And did in fact follow up with a polite PM and email in case you hadn't seen my questions in the thread.

Lastly, the question about Muirfield was asked by Mr Pearce. As your primary supporter and defender on this website, if anyone is deserving of a straight-up, honest answer from you, it's Mark Pearce.

« **Reply #61 on:** March 11, 2012, 06:54:01 PM »

Melvyn,

I'm sorry you had a bad experience at Muirfield. That doesn't sound like the experiences I have had. How recent was it?

« **Reply #62 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:04:54 PM »

Mark,

Perhaps Melvyn is referring to this summer 2008 incident in which he cold-called the HCEG secretary to ask that courtesy of the course be given to a third party on a set date with less than two weeks' notice.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38456.msg799459.html#msg799459

« **Reply #63 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:06:47 PM »

Mark

Sorry missed your post.

It was in 2008 the Centenary Year of Old Tom’s death. It was when I was arranging Ernie‘s Challenge to play all of Old Tom’s know courses in that year. I was indeed surprised by the reaction which in the past I had never noticed, but others since have also confirmed their, let’s just call it disappointment with the clubs attitude.

Melvyn

Scott, don’t bullshit others - your search upon me predates my interview and your question by many months – this is the last time I intend to react to you or your comments.

« **Reply #64 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:19:26 PM »

Melvyn,

I'm puzzled. Ernie's Challenge was a significant undertaking, which must have taken much organising (for which you both deserve congratulations). It's surprising to me, therefore, that you were trying to arrange a game at Muirfield less than two weeks ahead of the date he wanted to play. It's well known that all public times on the Tuesday and Thursday are taken well in advance. If Ernie was wanting to play on another day, reserved for member only play, wouldn't it have been polite to give the club more than two weeks notice?

I'm delighted to hear that Ernie got his game in any event, with a member. How was he received by the club on the day?

Mark

« **Reply #65 on:** March 11, 2012, 08:10:35 PM »

Quote from: Rich Goodale on March 11, 2012, 08:30:47 AM

In my opinion, Troon is just a smidgen below the top 5 courses in Scotland in overall quality/experience, but that is hardly a bad place to be. Unlike most others, I think that the front 9 is just as interesting as the back 9, although in many different ways. It is an anti-Old Course in that you go out on a journey which seemingly lies all open and simplistic in front of you but turns out to be highly complex and fraught with danger if you lose your concentration. Coming back it looks complex, but is really more simple--if you believe that "simple" means "hit a long straight drive and a mid-iron/rescue club with the proper line and length, and then try to not three putt on greens of subtlety rather than ostentation."

It is a very worthy Open venue, and 2016 cannot come soon enouhg, at least for me.

Well said Rich. What do you consider the Top 5 in Scotland?

« **Reply #66 on:** March 11, 2012, 08:17:01 PM »

Quote from: Jon Wiggett on March 11, 2012, 05:56:54 AM

The 7th did not really stick in my mind as a stand out hole. As for the postage stamp when you break it down what are its GCA merits bearing in mind it is the courses signature hole. It is short and the green is very small. Missing the green always leaves a difficult recovery as it has no bailout shot. The green is so small that in essence there is a very small area to land the ball if you want to stay on the green in normal summer conditions.

or me it is a one shot, no choice type of hole which is very challenging but has little if any GCA merit. If it were on a non Open rota course it would probably not be on the radar.

Jon

Perhaps you didn't like 7 as much as some others (I disagree) but there is no need to question the Postage Stamp. It is one of if not the most famous Par 3 in the world and deservedly so. Really don't think it has anything to do with just being on the "rota". Railway is also world class.

« **Reply #67 on:** March 11, 2012, 09:06:03 PM »

I hope I did make it clear I have enjoyed both good and bad treatment by the staffs at Muirfield and Troon. I only added Muirfield because it has a reputation for making life nervous for visitors. I have only had good treatment when a guest of a Member at both places. I try not to let that color my opinion of the courses. These are timeless clubs and who is working there in my lifetime of visits should not color my opinion of that club and course and its place in history. I do love the greens at Luffness but do not think the course is in the same discussion with the other great courses in East Lothian. Melvin, I am glad you like Prestwick. So do I. there were few courses in life I was more excited about playing the first time than it. However it is not in the Open rotation nor will it be, so I did not get the purpose of the comparison. I do not see any other course besides Turnberry being in the rotation on the west coast of Scotland. I am thrilled Troon will host the Open again.

« **Reply #68 on:** March 11, 2012, 09:18:28 PM »

Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on March 11, 2012, 09:06:03 PM

I hope I did make it clear I have enjoy both good and bad treatment by the staffs at Muirfield and Troon. I only added Muirfield because it has a reputation for making life nervous for visitors. I have only had good treatment when a guest of a Member at both places. I try not to let that color my opinion of the courses. These are timeless clubs and who is working there in my lifetime of visits should not color my opinion of that club and course and its place in history. I do love the greens at Luffness but do not think the course is in the same discussion with the other great courses in East Lothian. Melvin, I am glad you like Prestwick. So do I. there were few courses in life I was more excited about playing the first time than it. However it is not in the Open rotation nor will it be, so I did not get the purpose of the comparison. I do not see any other course besides Turnberry being in the rotation on the west coast of Scotland. I am thrilled Troon will host the Open again.

Well said Tiger. It will be great to see the Open back in Ayrshire. Great fans, great area, restaurants, pubs and general logistics. Can't wait!

« **Reply #69 on:** March 11, 2012, 10:03:17 PM »

Mark

I do not see why you are puzzled; Old Tom was involved in over 100 courses that I have found to date, some 60-70 still in existence. Ernie set the agenda to comply with his schedule giving on average about 10-14 days prior notice although some were less, I do agree.

As for polite, all approaches to all the clubs were very polite. Of course being able to offer more notice would have indeed be great, however my comment was based upon the rather unnecessary reaction I received to the extent that I was happy to omit Muirfield from the list of courses played in memory of Old Tom. Ernie, was able to include it upon his list because he arranged an unofficial game direct with a member of the club.

There was no need for the aggressive reaction, a simple statement would have sufficed, and surely politeness works both ways. You would have thought that suggesting playing as a guest of a Member could have been the way forward, but clearly at that time the offer was not made, which in the end resolved the problem.

From my memory no other course/club refused and all were very considerate.

Melvyn

« **Reply #70 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:18:58 AM »

Mark

Forgot to say that statement by your friend is not true - “which he cold-called” – oh did I, that’s news to me, as I had been in contact with the club a few times leading up to that date re Old Tom. It’s pure blood lies that people try and put words into my mouth, to try and prove their point or enhance their standing with the group.

Melvyn

« **Reply #71 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:27:32 AM »

Quote from: Niall Hay on March 11, 2012, 08:17:01 PM

Quote from: Jon Wiggett on March 11, 2012, 05:56:54 AM
The 7th did not really stick in my mind as a stand out hole. As for the postage stamp when you break it down what are its GCA merits bearing in mind it is the courses signature hole. It is short and the green is very small. Missing the green always leaves a difficult recovery as it has no bailout shot. The green is so small that in essence there is a very small area to land the ball if you want to stay on the green in normal summer conditions.

or me it is a one shot, no choice type of hole which is very challenging but has little if any GCA merit. If it were on a non Open rota course it would probably not be on the radar.

Jon

Perhaps you didn't like 7 as much as some others (I disagree) but there is no need to question the Postage Stamp. It is one of if not the most famous Par 3 in the world and deservedly so. Really don't think it has anything to do with just being on the "rota". Railway is also world class.

Niall,

I was just stating my opinion and have clearly said that my opinion of Troon is somewhat defined by factors not to do with the course. Having said that, why not question the Postage Stamp? Are you of the opinion it won't stand up to the scrutiny? What are, in your opinion its outstanding GCA characteristics? Being famous is nothing to do with GCA.

Jon

« **Reply #72 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:29:21 AM »

Troon is a championship venue and a worthy one. I don't think its great course, but championship golf is about great golfers tackling tough conditions on a demanding course - not necessarily a great course. You couldn't get me to go back to Troon after being treated like cattle on my visit. Muirfield too has its cattle set-up for Tues & Thurs, but they handle it far better than Troon - with smiles on their faces - at least that was my experience.

Ciao

« **Reply #73 on:** March 12, 2012, 07:53:02 AM »

Quote from: Niall Hay on March 11, 2012, 08:10:35 PM

Quote from: Rich Goodale on March 11, 2012, 08:30:47 AM
In my opinion, Troon is just a smidgen below the top 5 courses in Scotland in overall quality/experience, but that is hardly a bad place to be. Unlike most others, I think that the front 9 is just as interesting as the back 9, although in many different ways. It is an anti-Old Course in that you go out on a journey which seemingly lies all open and simplistic in front of you but turns out to be highly complex and fraught with danger if you lose your concentration. Coming back it looks complex, but is really more simple--if you believe that "simple" means "hit a long straight drive and a mid-iron/rescue club with the proper line and length, and then try to not three putt on greens of subtlety rather than ostentation."

It is a very worthy Open venue, and 2016 cannot come soon enouhg, at least for me.

Well said Rich. What do you consider the Top 5 in Scotland?

Thanks, Niall

Alphabetically--Carnoustie, Castle Stuart, Dornoch, Muirfield, Turnberry

For all, regarding the quality of welcome given to you at Muirfield and Troon. There was no problem at all when I first played those courses in 1978. Given that I acted in a reasonably civilised way on those first visits, subsequent ones were easy to arrange, and the ambiance at both places was always very enjoyable. In fact those were the only two courses I played regularly (outside of Dornoch, of course) during the 1980's when I spent 1-4 months each year in the Highlands. I don't know about the current atmosphere as I've not tried to get on either course for 20 years or so.

Rich

« **Reply #74 on:** March 12, 2012, 09:44:43 AM »

Wow, Castle Stuart is making a strong debut on your list. Our lists share 3 of the 5. Muirfield and Dornoch (my fav to play) should be on all lists.

3 Courses I love to play that would probably not get mentioned in the top 5 but should not be missed are:

North Berwick
Prestwick
Machrihanish

They are quirky, fun to play and uniquely Scottish....

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Rich Goodale

Tiger_Bernhardt

Melvyn Morrow

Jon Wiggett

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Mark Pearce

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Scott Warren

Mark Pearce

Scott Warren

Melvyn Morrow

Mark Pearce

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Niall Hay

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Niall Hay

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Melvyn Morrow

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