[Melvyn Morrow]

Do blind holes make the golfer think, hence why not fully appreciated these days?
Do they combat the need to utilise technology to improve one’s score?
Are more blind Holes the way forward to combat the long pointless aerial game?  
Does the modern golfer have the control not just the skill over himself to meet the challenge?
Or is this the reason many modern players dislike the ‘Blind Hole’?

Any thoughts on the subject?

[Jon Wiggett]

Good question Melvyn!

I think that although the modern professional player uses yardage to judge what club to use and how hard to hit it the fine judgement required for any long shot is still visual. If you do not have that visual reference it takes a lot, if not all of the feel out of the shot.

To back up the point I would put forward the following two examples.

1. I have an 11 yard spread between the irons. I hit the 7 iron 159ish to 170ish yards. If the distance is 163 yards the fine control is done through visual reference. This also is the case with wind, side hill lie and lie of the ball. If I play at elevation (say 5000ft) this fine feel suffers as what I see and there for feel does not fit the fact that the ball flies further.

2. When practising in thick fog you may notice that it is harder if not impossible to get the same tight grouping in both line but more interestingly length.

Jon

[Scott Warren]

Melvyn,

Can you talk us through the blind shots at Askernish and what your first impressions were when you saw them?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jon

I feel golf is all about the challenge, or to put it bluntly the uncertainty of the challenges ahead.  I can see some saying what about a club Member playing his course week after week, but then to add spice to a course, the pin is moved on every Hole on a daily basic and not just for the wear factor.

I feel the game is more about feel and skill rather that reliance upon modern technology to do the business. Blind Holes are not just a test of skill but more so of character. To face the unknown, aided only by what one’s eyes can see, lifts the game and golfer to new heights that no aid including club/ball can create, well that’s IMHO.

Golf is Man Vs. the course, not with a backpack of toys and crutches, but by his own mental and physical ability.

I sincerely feel many a modern golfer has lost a little of him/herself when deciding to rely upon modern technology.

In my day I loved playing different courses, experiencing the unknown, learning from the encounters but not upon a single round but when possible a full 36 Hole day upon the same course.

Jon, you just do not need these aids, you have it within, just feel confident in yourself and play the game as it comes unaided. You will feel the better for it in the long run.

Melvyn 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Question for Tom Doak if he’s looking (and given he’s just posted on blindness on the NGLA thread)… or any other architect:

I know Tom isn’t a huge fan in blindness on his courses. He prefers visibility. So I was wondering if he’d ever routed a fully blind (as opposed to semi-blind) hole / shot out of choice rather than compromise? Even once? Maybe Old Mac but that was following a certain brief I suppose…

Thanks,
Ally

[Anthony Gray]

Question for Tom Doak if he’s looking (and given he’s just posted on blindness on the NGLA thread)… or any other architect:

I know Tom isn’t a huge fan in blindness on his courses. He prefers visibility. So I was wondering if he’d ever routed a fully blind (as opposed to semi-blind) hole / shot out of choice rather than compromise? Even once? Maybe Old Mac but that was following a certain brief I suppose…

Thanks,
Ally

  There is a nice blind tee shot at Cape Kidnappers. Fits in well.

 

[Jon Wiggett]

In my day I loved playing different courses, experiencing the unknown, learning from the encounters but not upon a single round but when possible a full 36 Hole day upon the same course.

Jon, you just do not need these aids, you have it within, just feel confident in yourself and play the game as it comes unaided. You will feel the better for it in the long run.

Melvyn 

Melvyn,

I never said I used any. My course only has distance on the score card and no yardage markers so the golfer has to eye the shot on most holes.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Question for Tom Doak if he’s looking (and given he’s just posted on blindness on the NGLA thread)… or any other architect:

I know Tom isn’t a huge fan in blindness on his courses. He prefers visibility. So I was wondering if he’d ever routed a fully blind (as opposed to semi-blind) hole / shot out of choice rather than compromise? Even once? Maybe Old Mac but that was following a certain brief I suppose…

Thanks,
Ally

  There is a nice blind tee shot at Cape Kidnappers. Fits in well.

 

Anthony,

I’m sure he has built blind shots & holes but often these come about in a routing because they are a lesser evil when compared to some other alternative / compromise that would have been needed should that hole not have been incorporated.

I’m interested to know if Tom (or any other designer) has deliberately set out to incorporate a blind hole / shot…

Ally

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ops Jon, Sorry, please forgive me.  Great to see that courses still honour the old traditions of the game and more importantly golfers showing respect for the game by playing in the time honoured way.

Melvyn

[Mac Plumart]

I think blindness when done well makes for great golf.

Perfection on North Berwick being one of my favorite holes.  Punchbowl greens being another type of well done blindness.

But perhaps a course that you'll only play once, or rarely, blindness is a turn off...especially if caddies are not offered.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mac

The point of blind holes is not to get help but venture into the unknown alone - thats part of the game - well my understanding anyway.

Melvyn

[Tim Martin]

There can`t be a much better feeling than finding your ball in A1 position after executing a blind shot. The mystery involved only adds to the experience.

[Anthony Gray]

  Good players don't like chance. They like to be rewarded for a good shot. Players who don't like blind shots usually don't appeciate the rub of the green. I like blind shots. Holes like 9 at RCD add to the nuance of the round.

  Anthony

[Ross Tuddenham]

I agree with Melvyn that there is a test of character with fully blind shots that should be embraced by us all. Although I don’t think they are the curse of an “unthinking” golfer but rather one who feels the land they play on should provide the fairest of tests.   The most imaginative and thinking golfer may still want the obstacles to be overcome (in their case very imaginatively) to be blatantly presented in front of the. I imagine some people see blindness as a step in loss of control too far. 

I also wonder if blindness can remove some of the options for someone who is really thinking about what shots to play?  If you cannot see the land the ball will land on how can you conjure up and evaluate the different shot options?

I like blind shots but as Anthony points out were I a very good player in an important event I imagine finding a well struck shot in deep trouble over the back of the green would change my opinion pretty sharpish.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Anthony

Good players don't like chance. They like to be rewarded for a good shot

This is what I am saying is wrong with golf, and modern golfers, they expect it easy, no danger and then expect a reward. No sorry Mate, this is far from being a good golfer in my book. It’s like a sickness that has descended over the game for nearly half a century and IMHO is wrong, totally wrong and has nothing to do with the game of golf.

Golfers take their chances, they rise to the challenge and the reward is that feel good factor achieved by their own efforts, all else is just a total mirage of the once great game called golf.

Still speaking to me?

Melvyn

[PCCraig]

Who said modern golfers don't like blind shots?

[Anthony Gray]

Anthony

Good players don't like chance. They like to be rewarded for a good shot

This is what I am saying is wrong with golf, and modern golfers, they expect it easy, no danger and then expect a reward. No sorry Mate, this is far from being a good golfer in my book. It’s like a sickness that has descended over the game for nearly half a century and IMHO is wrong, totally wrong and has nothing to do with the game of golf.

Golfers take their chances, they rise to the challenge and the reward is that feel good factor achieved by their own efforts, all else is just a total mirage of the once great game called golf.

Still speaking to me?

Melvyn

  Why wouldn't I? See you in september. I'll be the guy in the caddy bibbs with E Smith on the back.

  Anthony

[Mike Hendren]

There can`t be a much better feeling than finding your ball in A1 position after executing a blind shot. The mystery involved only adds to the experience.

+1

Perhaps we're over-thinking this.  I find them fun and exciting - the more the merrier.  I love to see the ball surmount a crest and disppear.    After all, how many of us can stiff an approach shot from distance when we're looking right at the pin?

Bogey

[Mac Plumart]

A bit of the arguments against blindness seem to touch on Joshua Crane and fairness.  And I agree that blindness does introduce a bit of a rub of the green vs. completely fair golf.  And I see where that is a turn-off to some and a delight to others...modern golfers or ODG's like Crane.

[Jon Wiggett]

Who said modern golfers don't like blind shots?

and who said good players don't like blind shots?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mac

Fair, what’s fair in Golf, was it mean to be fair, that’s’ a new one on me. Or are we saying we must be fair with players because they can’t achieve their aim in life or the game, but then is that not life. Golf like life is not fair, it was never meant to be it’s a challenging game or is meant to be and could be again we dealt with the issues.

Fair or the road to fairness is what has caused the game to wander from its true path, picking up fairness on the way or in all honesty that translated means watered down a once challenging game.

Think that’s a fair interpretation of my opinion on fair.

Melvyn  

[Niall C]

I'm with Ross. If anything blind shots require a less intuitive shot ie. you've got to think how far you hit the ball (and therefore need to know how far you have to hit it BTW) and measure your swing accordingly. When you can eyeball the target your brain kind of takes over and does it intuitively.

Having said that, I do think blind shots do test the intuitive part of the brain, particularly if you haven't played the hole before, by making you work out the correct line. The actual swing however is as above.

Wow, now that I said back and read what I've just written, its clear I'm badly in need of a beer.

Niall

[Mac Plumart]

Melvyn...

I am so with you! As Pete Dye says, "Golf isn't a fair game.  Why build a fair golf course?"

But I am just looking into why people might not like blind shots.  And I do think it is the Crane/fairness mentality.  And I do think a lot, if not the majority, of golfers that I see seem to have a lot in common with Crane.  Which kind of sucks.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mac

If players want fair they are in the wrong game and should find something meets their requirements instead of watering down our game.

Melvyn

[Emile Bonfiglio]

I've never played a blind hole that I really enjoyed. I'm not sure I see the fun in them. I feel they are the equivalent of going bowling and not being able to see the pins. Yes you know you have a split of a certain configuration but its always nice to see it. I'm sure the gifted can pick up the spare without seeing the pins but its just no for me.

Sincerely
-Thinking Golfer.

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