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Anthony Gray

5th or 14th at TOC
« on: February 04, 2012, 08:12:39 PM »


  Which one do you favor?

  Anthony

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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 08:17:11 PM »
The 5th on The Old Course is often a fairly easy hole, as long as you stay away from the Seven Sisters on the right of the fairway.  [Stay away from them, Anthony!]

The 14th is one of the most difficult par-5 holes in golf.  When I caddied there, I saw a number of 9's and 10's from visitors paying their green fees.  OB right, deep fairway bunkers left, Hell ahead, difficult fallaway green with a steep false front.  Not even MacKenzie's illustration of it in GOLF ARCHITECTURE does it justice.
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 08:18:29 PM »
#5 is a great hole with the "Spectacles" bunkers and deep swale out in front of that huge double green, but #14 is my favorite hole on the Old Course.  

I love Dr Mackenzie's drawing of four possible routes to dodge The Beardies, Hell, the OOB and broken ground both sides.   The Elysian Fields are so inviting out there, that huge open field with the wall to the right, but this brings Hell Bunker into play.   There are so many options your head can spin!
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Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 09:47:39 PM »
Bill,
I thought The Spectacles bunker was on #14 at Carnoustie.  Is there a set of bunkers on TOC called The Spectacles.  Am I seeing double?

Cheers Colin
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2012, 11:08:08 PM »
love both holes, the 5th is the easiest three putt par on the course, the 14th is the easist 1 putt par.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 07:32:43 PM »
Quote from: Colin Macqueen on February 04, 2012, 09:47:39 PM
Bill,
I thought The Spectacles bunker was on #14 at Carnoustie.  Is there a set of bunkers on TOC called The Spectacles.  Am I seeing double?

Cheers Colin

Colin, I think any pair of bunkers you have to carry is called that informally.   There are other sets at Gleneagles and The Valley Club of Montecito to name a couple.  B
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Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 03:17:37 AM »
14th by a wide margin - more interest on the drive, approach and in / around the greensite
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Sean Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 06:10:21 AM »
The 5th is a unique hole, the 14th is one of THE great holes.

Best shot I saw in my time in St Andrews was a Japanese lady about 40y.o. a 7-8hcp (I was told she had been scratch which is possible) from the bunkers 50yds short and left of the green. Up and Down for a Par. Best bunker shot I have ever seen.



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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 02:54:27 PM »
I favour them both as they are completely different animals.  One is really a 2-shotter and the other is a true 3-shotter unless one is very long or playing tees too far forward for his length.  One aspect of #14 I don't like is the break in the fairway short of Hell.  I don't understand why this was done.

Ciao
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Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 03:35:09 PM »
I’ll go with the 14th.  The first time I saw it, on a Sunday walk and playing into a stiff breeze, I had no idea about how to play it.  The next day, playing with the same stiff breeze behind, it was fairly easy (just over in two).  Between those two extremes lay a multitude of options.  For me (hack golfer), it wasn’t until I read MacKenzie’s book did I realize what I should have done if faced with Sunday’s conditions:  play two shots down the 5th and approach from there.  Brilliant.
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Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 06:30:29 PM »
I prefer the 14th.

Is it easier to play 14 from the 5th fairway?
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 07:10:32 PM »
Quote from: Steve Salmen on February 06, 2012, 06:30:29 PM
I prefer the 14th.

Is it easier to play 14 from the 5th fairway?

Than from Hell or the Kitchen?   You bet!   ;D
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Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 08:37:15 PM »
On my only trip around TOC, on #14 I had the pleasant distinction of: 1) pulling my drive deep left into the Elysian Fields; 2) flying my second straight into Hell; 3) hitting a great third to the back of the green (!); and, 4) recording a tap-in par.  Nothing to it!   :P
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 09:26:06 PM »
Quote from: Matt MacIver on February 06, 2012, 08:37:15 PM
On my only trip around TOC, on #14 I had the pleasant distinction of: 1) pulling my drive deep left into the Elysian Fields; 2) flying my second straight into Hell; 3) hitting a great third to the back of the green (!); and, 4) recording a tap-in par.  Nothing to it!   :P

You obviously found a good part of Hell.  Ask Jack about his three shots to escape Hell and ensuing snowman!   I'm sure it's on YouTube.    He was close to the front left lip.   :o :o :o
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Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, 08:51:25 AM »
Bill - yes I remember Jack's troubles; I was closer to the middle, left side, with a wedge I really never had any worries about catching the lip. 

Now that I look at the course again I think I REALLY pulled it - I wasn't in the EF but rather in the 5th fairway.  I love width!
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 5th or 14th at TOC
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2012, 09:02:57 AM »
Quote from: Matt MacIver on February 07, 2012, 08:51:25 AM
Bill - yes I remember Jack's troubles; I was closer to the middle, left side, with a wedge I really never had any worries about catching the lip. 

Now that I look at the course again I think I REALLY pulled it - I wasn't in the EF but rather in the 5th fairway.  I love width!


Next time you're over there, just lay up toward that gorse bush to the left.  You'll have about an 80 yard bump and run up the bank onto the green.    That is by far the safest route.   Not having a copy of the drawing at hand, I think it's Mackenzie's player D but could be wrong.
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