[Anthony Gray]

  I don't have a problem with it. If anything it is a nice tribute. Looks fun to play which is the reason for the design. I would like to see more holes like this.

  Anthony

[Michael Blake]

You're right Melvyn, doesn't do the Road Hole justice.
It's not as gimmicky.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Michael

You may well be right but why have I not seen your company's name associated to The St Andrews Links Trust courses, not even that crap course called The Castle, expect you may be just too gimmicky for the serious golfer.

Thought I would return your gesture of kindness and  friendship.

Melvyn

[Ronald Montesano]

IMHO? Sez who? Very few on this site have a humble opinion (present company included)

Pictures are flat...Mark can confirm better than anyone else the depth of the bunker.

I believe that a valuable advancement of golf is the waste area. Rather than the unplayable nature of the gorse and the heather (how does that differ from a water hazard, ask I?) the waste area allows for location and recovery of shot.

I shall now position my fortifications for the inevitable salvo from the isles

[Mark Chaplin]

So if the area isn't a shallow bunker but crushed stone/shells it would accept a putter, 7 iron, wedge, rescue or any other shot a player may dream up. So something like getting off the road on the Road Hole, all are possible but require perfect execution and no guarantees of a result.

Melvyn you may not like the aesthetics but it maybe a good feature if good design gives options and requires skill from the player.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mark

My point is that it is not a good design but bankrupt of thought not to mention ideas. Flat hard bunkers are not a challenge and in this case we seem to be looking at the designer’s art rather than a golf course design

Melvyn

[Jim_Kennedy]

MM,

The bunkers Norman built in front of the green both look reasonably deep and somewhat troubling, not TOC #17 deep, but not shallow. The flat bottomed bunker to the side and rear is just a representation of the road, if that what his aim, and it would be impossible and incongruous to use the same type of surface as that of its parent, so the sand is a reasonable alternative. The green is perched up back there, so a certain amount of expertise is needed to loft the ball out and onto its surface. 'Skinning' one out doesn't look to be a very viable alternative, but even if a player chose that option it's still not a  'gimme' that he'll pull it off.

Sometimes you buy a jelly doughnut only to find that it's a Boston creme, but it fills the same purpose, nicely I might add.    

  

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jim

Is it not shallow? Hell there is a lot of flat sand that seems to disagree with you. I do not know what the idea is but let’s not forget its golf we playing. Where is the good design, what is good about it. Oh it may resemble a road surface by being hard compacted sand, come on get real it’s not about Art it’s all about good or come to that basic golf course design.  

IMHO it is art being portrayed and golf design is next to non-existent.

Melvyn

[Mark Saltzman]

Is it not shallow?

Melvyn, look at the height of the flag to get a sense of the depth of the bunker. It is several feet deep. If I am ever out there again I will be sure to bring a tape measure with me.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Mark

That’s shallow as far as this golfer is concerned, perhaps if the sides had been a lot closer I may agree with you but due to the wide expanse of hard sand it has the difficulty of a shallow bunker IMO.

Melvyn

[Steve Lang]

  Sam like bull, but not shipped high in transit...

Looking at the course as a whole, it looks as much a test of one's golf game in the 21st century with gca design fitting its locale, as the flat ol TOC did in its prime century (pick your favorite)

 http://www.parklandgcc.com/Course?ssid=240993

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This may be the most ridiculously titled thread--a more apt title would be: My lack of imagination and intolerance causes me to not understand how the modern game is played!  Not every road is paved with ashfalt and not every soil condition allows for the bunker style you so like.  Golf is a game that has adapted with the times and seems to create enough passion for people to travel the world for great golfing experiences.   Wake up and open up your imagination and enjoy the game in its entirety!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Robert

You have your right to your opinion, but then so do I. The design side of the game has been a mess for the last 50 years. Golfers have not got value for money. Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation the last 50 years has seen the poorest level the game has ever been in. Why? Perhaps it’s down to money, perhaps it’s down to lack of control by the governing body and the continued lack of control over equipment technology that has rendered many a great pre WW2 course nearly toothless. The game of golf has suffered, its direction and commitment to playing golf has been eroded to the point that paying for new equipment will reduce ones score quicker than generating skill by practice.

The great new designs seem to regurgitate old template holes in abundance while we find shallow bunkers and island Greens surrounded by a mass of bunkers or water. The very idea of a challenge is watered down with many a player screaming foul if they feel they have to walk, use their own brains or believe the course is just too difficult.

Skill can only be achieved by rising to a challenge, courses being well designed produce that challenge. I believe one sit should generate skill through practice never should it be allowed because you can afford to buy the latest high tech equipment.

And We Wonder What Is Wrong With The Modern Game Of Golf – seems more than a fair question.

You may not like or agree with my opinion, so what, at least I am looking at the game trying to understand where I believe the errors have occurred. It’s down to others to agree or not or more hopefully to realise that golf has an underlying problem.

Melvyn 

[George Freeman]

Melvyn, I'm curious:

In your opinion are there any great courses in the world that were A) built after 1950 and are B) located outside of GB&I (or Fife for that matter)?

[George Freeman]

Melvyn, I'm curious:

In your opinion are there any great courses in the world that were A) built after 1950 and are B) located outside of GB&I (or Fife for that matter)?

Melvyn?

[Melvyn Morrow]

George

Answer is a
A) Yes
B) Yes

Melvyn

[Bill_McBride]

Robert

You have your right to your opinion, but then so do I. The design side of the game has been a mess for the last 50 years. Golfers have not got value for money. Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation the last 50 years has seen the poorest level the game has ever been in. Why? Perhaps it’s down to money, perhaps it’s down to lack of control by the governing body and the continued lack of control over equipment technology that has rendered many a great pre WW2 course nearly toothless. The game of golf has suffered, its direction and commitment to playing golf has been eroded to the point that paying for new equipment will reduce ones score quicker than generating skill by practice.

The great new designs seem to regurgitate old template holes in abundance while we find shallow bunkers and island Greens surrounded by a mass of bunkers or water. The very idea of a challenge is watered down with many a player screaming foul if they feel they have to walk, use their own brains or believe the course is just too difficult.

Skill can only be achieved by rising to a challenge, courses being well designed produce that challenge. I believe one sit should generate skill through practice never should it be allowed because you can afford to buy the latest high tech equipment.

And We Wonder What Is Wrong With The Modern Game Of Golf – seems more than a fair question.

You may not like or agree with my opinion, so what, at least I am looking at the game trying to understand where I believe the errors have occurred. It’s down to others to agree or not or more hopefully to realise that golf has an underlying problem.

Melvyn 

I would love it if you could get to Bandon Dunes.   Four great courses, no island greens, no waterfalls, walking only.   You would change your mind about no good design for 50 years.

http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/pages/golf/4.php      Explore all 72 holes one at a time.

Actually, 50-60 years ago might have been our worst design era.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

My post actually said "Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation the last 50 years has seen the poorest level the game has ever been in."

Yes good courses have been built and not just in GB, but the key words were ' Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation'. I also feel the previous 50 years pre WW2 produced some great courses, although volume does not guarantee quality.

Melvyn

[Colin Macqueen]

Robert M-D,

I may have misunderstood what you meant when you said "Not every road is paved with ashfalt...".
However if you were alluding to The Road Hole in particular I don't think it was ever asphalt but consisted of loose blue metal gravel/stones.  I might be wrong here so if anyone knows different I am happy to be enlightened.

Melvyn, I was quite taken with the idea of this hole being Road Hole like and if that "waste area" which looks like coarse sand was actually irregular broken shell, small stones and gravel I think it would be even better.

Cheers Colin

[Anthony Butler]

Bill

My post actually said "Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation the last 50 years has seen the poorest level the game has ever been in."

[q] good courses have been built and not just in GB, but the key words were ' Of course there are exceptions but as a generalisation'. I also feel the previous 50 years pre WW2 produced some great courses, although volume does not guarantee quality.[/q]

Melvyn

Ironic after coming home from a parent/teacher conference concerning my 4 year old son, where the subject was "Drawing negative attention through words and actions" to find this thread on GCA...

[Bill_McBride]

Anthony

I am glad to see that all is well and balanced in your world. However thanks to the constant threat of the lazy and less committed we all have to be vigilant in protecting both life and way of life.

In closing, I must say the most ironic for me was seeing out guys killed for the failure of a father on his original commitment to war leaving it to his son to use the excuse of WMD – the non-existing WMD to go to war. Not only was that ironic but clearly should wins the award for "Drawing negative attention through words and actions" but a total f@#K up in life and money.

I take my lead from your great country.

Melvyn 

It's a good thing your great country was able to steer clear of that fiasco.    Well done sir. 

[PCCraig]

Shit Bill, seems you forget the numerous bodybags and horrible wounds our service men and women suffered supporting our ally. All for what, a lack of commitment to the poor people invaded and a f@~@king lie on WMD.

Perhaps you should not come over here if that is how you feel, its bad enough our guys getting hurt but not even being recognised by our ally who we are supporting.  Perhaps it explains why you play  golf the way you do.

In future, let’s keep to the facts and you owe our dead and mourning families an apology for your comment.

Have a nice day

Melvyn  

PS Just to remind you re Afgahanistan  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10629358

Wow. You really know how to add to the discussion of golf course architecture...

[Melvyn Morrow]

Pat

We can always rely upon you to correct us - all.

Melvyn

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony

I am glad to see that all is well and balanced in your world. However thanks to the constant threat of the lazy and less committed we all have to be vigilant in protecting both life and way of life.

In closing, I must say the most ironic for me was seeing out guys killed for the failure of a father on his original commitment to war leaving it to his son to use the excuse of WMD – the non-existing WMD to go to war. Not only was that ironic but clearly should wins the award for "Drawing negative attention through words and actions" but a total f@#K up in life and money.

I take my lead from your great country.

Melvyn 

I'm Australian... something that has been made reasonably apparent to the other 1498 participants here.

Even though I might agree with your dime store psychological theory, I'm not sure what it has to do with the issue at hand... other than the fact the apple can indeed fall very far from the tree.

[Bill_McBride]

Shit Bill, seems you forget the numerous bodybags and horrible wounds our service men and women suffered supporting our ally. All for what, a lack of commitment to the poor people invaded and a f@~@king lie on WMD.

Perhaps you should not come over here if that is how you feel, its bad enough our guys getting hurt but not even being recognised by our ally who we are supporting.  Perhaps it explains why you play  golf the way you do.

In future, let’s keep to the facts and you owe our dead and mourning families an apology for your comment.

Have a nice day

Melvyn  

PS Just to remind you re Afgahanistan  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10629358

Melvyn, I guess you missed the irony of my statement.  You were lecturing our great country for going into a war like Iraq and I thought it appropriate to remind you that our best ally was right there with us.  

There are occasions when your obtuseness is almost unbelievable.   I suggest you take a timeout for a while.  

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