Garland's thread and the Pine Valley discussions got me thinking, are there any/some weak/poor holes on great golf courses.
I don't think there's a weak/poor hole at Pine Valley.
I would say the same about ANGC, NGLA, WFW, GCGC, PBGC, CPC and many other great courses.
Some say the 18th at TOC, and I'm inclined to agree that it's rather mundane.
But, that's just my opinion, others may differ.
What really great courses have what you consider weak/poor holes ?
What about those holes makes them weak/poor ?
Patrick,
Who's determining whether a hole is weak? One hole could be weak for the touring professional, yet very good for the club golfer (99.9% of players).
For example, the par-5's at Royal Melbourne are considered weak at professional level, with three of them converted to par-4's for tour events. Meanwhile, I think each of these par-5's are outstanding for club golfers, myself included (a 5-handicap amateur that doesn't hit it overly long).
Many believe the 15th hole on the West Course is weak - a 434m par-5 that is not seen come tournament play.
There is a set of rough mounds, located approximately 100m from the green. For the better player and longer hitters, these mounds simply don't come into play. For club members or average golfers, a challenging carry is required to set up an easier third shot.
In fact, Dr. Alister MacKenzie, upon discovering these artificial mounds, declared,
"we’ll leave it as is, to show future generations how silly golf course architecture used to be".Below is a photo of the 15th at Royal Melbourne West, courtesy of Scott Warren's blog (Scott, I hope you don't mind me posting it).
I quote John Green (long time RM member and club historian) from his recently published book,
The Royal Melbourne Golf Club: History of the Courses. "This (the 15th hole) is the oldest hole on the course. Many, as is their right, regard it as an old-fashioned relic and a design peculiarity. Others, meanwhile, assess it as a great hole. Needless to say, modern equipment has changed this hundred year old hole completely for the good player. It still remains a good match-play hole, especially for the club members. It would be a brae person who set about changing it. The fifteenth hole may be old, but it remains sacrosanct as far as the club members are concerned."So, Patrick, I probably haven't answered your question but rather highlight that there are many golf holes considered weak or poor for some, but strong and great by others.