[Howard Riefs]

Add Golf World to the list of golf magazines with a course ranking list. Later this week, Golf World will launch the "first ever" PGA Tour player ranking list of golf courses. Augusta tops the inaugural list.  I hate to see where Cog Hill is ranked.

There's even an accompanying "Zagat style summary of each course, with the best player comments featured on all 52 eligible courses." The package is pieced together by Geoff Shackelford, who wrote about it on his site:  

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/1/10/golf-world-tour-players-course-ranking-augusta-1.html

I'm sure it will be top quality, drive conversation and supported by advertising dollars, but is there a need for yet another course ranking list? Or is that primarily dictated by whether it becomes a profitable venture for the publisher?

[Anthony Gray]

  How many of them venture to play courses like Prestwick or North Berwick?

  Anthony

[Carl Johnson]

I take it that, by design, the list includes only courses where PGA tournaments/competitions are played, so courses like Prestwick and North Berwick wouldn't be eligible.  That having been said, I think it would be interesting to see what the pros think of the courses on which they regularly play.  Their opinion is not going to affect mine (of where I'd play), of course, but as a matter of interest I think I could actually get more personal golf-sports-fan enjoyment out of seeing this list than the random rater lists.  So, I guess I have a contrarian opinion.

[Jeff Shelman]

I will be most interested to see where Tour stop courses such as Greenbrier Old White and Sedgewick in Greensboro and Aronomink rate.

Do the players like classic courses that we like? Or would they rather go play some bomber's paradise?

Obviously you can't paint these guys with a broad brush, but it might be interesting.

That said, it won't impact where I would like to play.

[Michael George]

I am not a guy that hates ratings, but I have no interest in reading what courses the tour players like. 

Ask a tour player what courses they like and you hear the words "test', "fair" and "shot-makers" - all of which are the opposite of the words that I typically use -"fun", "options with lots of cool shots" and "unique".

[Mike Tanner]

I'm in the same camp with Jeff and Carl. I don't really care about the majority of the courses on the TOUR, but I am interested in their perspective on courses like Pebble Beach, Riviera, Sedgewick and Aronomink, even Kapalua!

[Sam Morrow]

I actually am interested in this one. I don't know if I will agree with their thoughts but I'm, curious to see the thoughts of Tour players.

[Greg Holland]

and Sedgewick in Greensboro

2 things:  first, it is Sedgefield CC in Greensboro.

Second, on a GolfWorld teaser it mentioned ANGC was number one, and that folks might be surprised because Harbourtown was ahead of Riviera.  Nothing else was divulged.

[Tom Yost]

I am not a guy that hates ratings, but I have no interest in reading what courses the tour players like. 

A list of the courses tour players DON'T LIKE would be more interesting.  Those would be the courses I might seek out. 

[Tom Yost]

Shack was just on the GC Morning Drive program discussing the article and the poll.

Anyone want to take a stab at which course found the bottom of the list?

[Mark Saltzman]

Shack was just on the GC Morning Drive program discussing the article and the poll.

Anyone want to take a stab at which course found the bottom of the list?

I'll go with Spyglass Hill

[J_ Crisham]

I will go with the newly renovated Dubsdread

[Terry Lavin]

Liberty National was at the nadir of this list.  The list might not be all that compelling to some of the cognoscenti hereabouts, but the anonymous player commentary will be fun to read.

[Ken Moum]

Here's the whole list.  For those who want know what they hate, scroll down.

The Complete List:


1. Augusta National GC (Augusta, Ga., The Masters)
2. Harbour Town GL (Hilton Head Island, S.C., The Heritage)
3. Riviera CC (Pacific Palisades, Calif., Northern Trust Open)
 4. Pebble Beach GL (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
5. Colonial CC (Fort Worth, Tex., Crown Plaza Invitational)
6. Muirfield Village GC (Dublin, Ohio, The Memorial)
7. Shaugnessy G&CC (Vancouver, B.C., RBC Canadian Open)
8. Aronimink GC (Newtown Square, Penn., AT&T National)
9. Innisbrook Resort - Copperhead (Palm Harbor, Fla., Transitions Championship)
10. Congressional CC (Bethesda, Md., AT&T National)
11. TPC Sawgrass - Stadium (Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., The Players)
12. Firestone CC - South (Akron, Ohio, WGC-Bridgestone Invitational)
13. Spyglass Hill GC (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
14. Quail Hollow Club (Charlotte, N.C., Wells Fargo Championship)
15. Sea Island Resort - Seaside (St. Simons Island, Ga., McGladrey Classic)
16. Ridgewood CC - Composite (Paramus, N.J., The Barclays)
17. Plainfield CC (Edison, N.J., The Barclays)
18. East Lake GC (Atlanta, Ga., Tour Championship)
19. Monterey Peninsula CC - Shore (AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
20. Waialae CC (Honolulu, Hawaii, Sony Open)
21. Mayakoba Resort - El Camaleon (Riviera Maya, Mexico, Mayakoba Classic)
22. St. George's G&CC (Etobicoke, Ontario, RBC Canadian Open)
23. TPC Southwind (Memphis, Tenn., FedEx St. Jude Classic)
24. TPC Deere Run (Silvis, Ill., John Deere Classic)
25. TPC River Highlands (Cromwell, Conn., Travelers Championship)
26. La Quinta CC (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
27. PGA National - Champion (Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., Honda Classic)
28. TPC Scottsdale (Scottsdale, Ariz., Waste Management Phoenix Open)
29. TPC Boston (Norton, Mass., Deutsche Bank Championship)
 30. Cordevalle GC (San Martin, Calif., Frys.com Open)
31. Torrey Pines - South (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
32. Doral Resort - TPC Blue Monster (Miami, Fla., WGC-Cadillac Championship)
33. Bay Hill Club & Lodge (Orlando, Fla., Arnold Palmer Invitational)
34. Greenbrier Resort - The Old White TPC (White Sulfer Springs, W.Va., Greenbrier Classic)
35. Sedgefield CC (Greensboro, N.C., Wyndham Championship)
36. PGA West - Arnold Palmer Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
37. Montreux G&CC (Reno, Nev., Reno-Tahoe Open)
38. Walt Disney World Resort - Magnolia (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
39. TPC Summerlin (Las Vegas, Nev., Justin Timberlake Shriners Hospitals For Children Open)
40. Glen Abbey (Oakville, Ont., RBC Canadian Open)
41. Trump International GC - Championship (Rio Grande, Puerto Rico Open)
42. Redstone GC - Tournament (Humble, Tex., Shell Houston Open)
43. The Plantation Course At Kapalua (Kapalua, Hawaii, Hyundai Tournament of Champions)
44. PGA West - Jack Nicklaus Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
45. TPC Louisiana (Avondale, La., Zurich Classic of New Orleans)
46. Cog Hill G&CC (Lemont, Ill., BMW Championship)
47. Walt Disney World Resort - Palm (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
48. Torrey Pines GC - North (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
49. TPC Four Seasons Resort Las Colinas (Irving, Tex., HP Byron Nelson Championship)
50. TPC San Antonio - AT&T Oaks (San Antonio, Tex., Valero Texas Open)
51. Ritz-Carlton GC - Dove Mountain (Marana, Ariz., WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship)
52. Liberty National GC (Jersey City, N.J., The Barclays)


Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2012-01/photos-best-tour-courses#ixzz1jGmem0dh

[Matt MacIver]

To me the biggest surprises were:

1) Aronimink & Shaugnessy being so high after only a few events, not their high rankings but rather the immediate impressions they made;

2) Innisbrook actually being that high, high praise indeed I'll need to watch the telecast more closely that weekend. 

[Howard Riefs]

I hate to see where Cog Hill is ranked.

46. Cog Hill G&CC (Lemont, Ill., BMW Championship)


Well, at least it's not dead last.

[Garland Bayley]

Time to fire the entire PGA Tour architecture staff responsible for the TPC venues. Unless of course they like them dominating the bottom half.

[Kevin Lynch]

I'm not sure why this list would elicit a Yawn.  To me,it's more interesting because it gives a different perspective, rather than a simple biennial update of the same list (of which 90% doesn't ever change).

Why wouldn't we be interested in the perspective of people who play at the elite level?  Stereotypically, we might think their view is skewed given their rare talent, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their insight.  It may be easy to think of them as robots, but I'm sure some of them have a passion for and understanding of architectural principles (Ben Crenshaw, anyone?)

One of the biggest beefs many have with the rankings is that the process is spread out over so many raters. It's hard to put stock in a system comparing a number given by Rater A at Course A to Rater B's number for Course B.  But, with a limited population of courses played by a limited number of raters, I think you will get more comparable scales.  Furthermore, I would bet that the pro players are more intimately familiar with the characteristics of these courses than your average rater from a one-time 5 hour visit.

Of course you always need to take numerical ratings with a grain of salt.  I'm much more interested in seeing the qualitative comments from the pros, just to get someone else's unique perspective.  But, as far as quantitative rankings go, I think this one has less "Yawn potential" than most other lists we see.

[Jim Colton]

If G-Shack has access to the data, he should see how the scores correspond with how much success the given pro has had their in the past.

[Ben Sims]

Can't wait to see which course advertises this on their website first.

My bet is on TPC San Antonio.  I can see it now.  "Come play the course named in the Top 50 of GolfWorld's PGA Tour Course Rankings"

[Sam Morrow]

Can't wait to see which course advertises this on their website first.

My bet is on TPC San Antonio.  I can see it now.  "Come play the course named in the Top 50 of GolfWorld's PGA Tour Course Rankings"

I say Redstone, they would advertise that Lefty thinks their buffet is good.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Should #51. Ritz-Carlton GC - Dove Mountain (Marana, Ariz., WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship) get any weighting since half the field only gets to play it one round a year in a match play format? Would it rate higher if it were a stroke play tournament?

Also what about courses that are getting the B flight of players while WGC's are happening like Montreux #37 vs Firestone #12, Mayakoba #21 vs Ritz #51, Doral Blue #32 vs Trump #41. Also there is Annandale, which didn't make the list but it is up against the Open.

Food for thought.

[jeffwarne]

Here's the whole list.  For those who want know what they hate, scroll down.

The Complete List:


1. Augusta National GC (Augusta, Ga., The Masters)
2. Harbour Town GL (Hilton Head Island, S.C., The Heritage)
3. Riviera CC (Pacific Palisades, Calif., Northern Trust Open)
 4. Pebble Beach GL (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
5. Colonial CC (Fort Worth, Tex., Crown Plaza Invitational)
6. Muirfield Village GC (Dublin, Ohio, The Memorial)
7. Shaugnessy G&CC (Vancouver, B.C., RBC Canadian Open)
8. Aronimink GC (Newtown Square, Penn., AT&T National)
9. Innisbrook Resort - Copperhead (Palm Harbor, Fla., Transitions Championship)
10. Congressional CC (Bethesda, Md., AT&T National)
11. TPC Sawgrass - Stadium (Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., The Players)
12. Firestone CC - South (Akron, Ohio, WGC-Bridgestone Invitational)
13. Spyglass Hill GC (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
14. Quail Hollow Club (Charlotte, N.C., Wells Fargo Championship)
15. Sea Island Resort - Seaside (St. Simons Island, Ga., McGladrey Classic)
16. Ridgewood CC - Composite (Paramus, N.J., The Barclays)
17. Plainfield CC (Edison, N.J., The Barclays)
18. East Lake GC (Atlanta, Ga., Tour Championship)
19. Monterey Peninsula CC - Shore (AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
20. Waialae CC (Honolulu, Hawaii, Sony Open)
21. Mayakoba Resort - El Camaleon (Riviera Maya, Mexico, Mayakoba Classic)
22. St. George's G&CC (Etobicoke, Ontario, RBC Canadian Open)
23. TPC Southwind (Memphis, Tenn., FedEx St. Jude Classic)
24. TPC Deere Run (Silvis, Ill., John Deere Classic)
25. TPC River Highlands (Cromwell, Conn., Travelers Championship)
26. La Quinta CC (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
27. PGA National - Champion (Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., Honda Classic)
28. TPC Scottsdale (Scottsdale, Ariz., Waste Management Phoenix Open)
29. TPC Boston (Norton, Mass., Deutsche Bank Championship)
 30. Cordevalle GC (San Martin, Calif., Frys.com Open)
31. Torrey Pines - South (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
32. Doral Resort - TPC Blue Monster (Miami, Fla., WGC-Cadillac Championship)
33. Bay Hill Club & Lodge (Orlando, Fla., Arnold Palmer Invitational)
34. Greenbrier Resort - The Old White TPC (White Sulfer Springs, W.Va., Greenbrier Classic)
35. Sedgefield CC (Greensboro, N.C., Wyndham Championship)
36. PGA West - Arnold Palmer Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
37. Montreux G&CC (Reno, Nev., Reno-Tahoe Open)
38. Walt Disney World Resort - Magnolia (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
39. TPC Summerlin (Las Vegas, Nev., Justin Timberlake Shriners Hospitals For Children Open)
40. Glen Abbey (Oakville, Ont., RBC Canadian Open)
41. Trump International GC - Championship (Rio Grande, Puerto Rico Open)
42. Redstone GC - Tournament (Humble, Tex., Shell Houston Open)
43. The Plantation Course At Kapalua (Kapalua, Hawaii, Hyundai Tournament of Champions)
44. PGA West - Jack Nicklaus Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
45. TPC Louisiana (Avondale, La., Zurich Classic of New Orleans)
46. Cog Hill G&CC (Lemont, Ill., BMW Championship)
47. Walt Disney World Resort - Palm (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
48. Torrey Pines GC - North (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
49. TPC Four Seasons Resort Las Colinas (Irving, Tex., HP Byron Nelson Championship)
50. TPC San Antonio - AT&T Oaks (San Antonio, Tex., Valero Texas Open)
51. Ritz-Carlton GC - Dove Mountain (Marana, Ariz., WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship)
52. Liberty National GC (Jersey City, N.J., The Barclays)


Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2012-01/photos-best-tour-courses#ixzz1jGmem0dh

swap Old White for Congressional, and Plainfield for Firestone or Innisbrook, and this list wouldn't be that different than a GCA list.....given the choices

[David Kelly]

Here's the whole list.  For those who want know what they hate, scroll down.

The Complete List:


1. Augusta National GC (Augusta, Ga., The Masters)
2. Harbour Town GL (Hilton Head Island, S.C., The Heritage)
3. Riviera CC (Pacific Palisades, Calif., Northern Trust Open)
 4. Pebble Beach GL (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
5. Colonial CC (Fort Worth, Tex., Crown Plaza Invitational)
6. Muirfield Village GC (Dublin, Ohio, The Memorial)
7. Shaugnessy G&CC (Vancouver, B.C., RBC Canadian Open)
8. Aronimink GC (Newtown Square, Penn., AT&T National)
9. Innisbrook Resort - Copperhead (Palm Harbor, Fla., Transitions Championship)
10. Congressional CC (Bethesda, Md., AT&T National)
11. TPC Sawgrass - Stadium (Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., The Players)
12. Firestone CC - South (Akron, Ohio, WGC-Bridgestone Invitational)
13. Spyglass Hill GC (Pebble Beach, Calif., AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
14. Quail Hollow Club (Charlotte, N.C., Wells Fargo Championship)
15. Sea Island Resort - Seaside (St. Simons Island, Ga., McGladrey Classic)
16. Ridgewood CC - Composite (Paramus, N.J., The Barclays)
17. Plainfield CC (Edison, N.J., The Barclays)
18. East Lake GC (Atlanta, Ga., Tour Championship)
19. Monterey Peninsula CC - Shore (AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am)
20. Waialae CC (Honolulu, Hawaii, Sony Open)
21. Mayakoba Resort - El Camaleon (Riviera Maya, Mexico, Mayakoba Classic)
22. St. George's G&CC (Etobicoke, Ontario, RBC Canadian Open)
23. TPC Southwind (Memphis, Tenn., FedEx St. Jude Classic)
24. TPC Deere Run (Silvis, Ill., John Deere Classic)
25. TPC River Highlands (Cromwell, Conn., Travelers Championship)
26. La Quinta CC (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
27. PGA National - Champion (Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., Honda Classic)
28. TPC Scottsdale (Scottsdale, Ariz., Waste Management Phoenix Open)
29. TPC Boston (Norton, Mass., Deutsche Bank Championship)
 30. Cordevalle GC (San Martin, Calif., Frys.com Open)
31. Torrey Pines - South (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
32. Doral Resort - TPC Blue Monster (Miami, Fla., WGC-Cadillac Championship)
33. Bay Hill Club & Lodge (Orlando, Fla., Arnold Palmer Invitational)
34. Greenbrier Resort - The Old White TPC (White Sulfer Springs, W.Va., Greenbrier Classic)
35. Sedgefield CC (Greensboro, N.C., Wyndham Championship)
36. PGA West - Arnold Palmer Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
37. Montreux G&CC (Reno, Nev., Reno-Tahoe Open)
38. Walt Disney World Resort - Magnolia (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
39. TPC Summerlin (Las Vegas, Nev., Justin Timberlake Shriners Hospitals For Children Open)
40. Glen Abbey (Oakville, Ont., RBC Canadian Open)
41. Trump International GC - Championship (Rio Grande, Puerto Rico Open)
42. Redstone GC - Tournament (Humble, Tex., Shell Houston Open)
43. The Plantation Course At Kapalua (Kapalua, Hawaii, Hyundai Tournament of Champions)
44. PGA West - Jack Nicklaus Private (La Quinta, Calif., Humana Challenge)
45. TPC Louisiana (Avondale, La., Zurich Classic of New Orleans)
46. Cog Hill G&CC (Lemont, Ill., BMW Championship)
47. Walt Disney World Resort - Palm (Lake Buena Vista, Fla., Children's Miracle Network Hospitals Challenge)
48. Torrey Pines GC - North (La Jolla, Calif., Farmers Insurance Open)
49. TPC Four Seasons Resort Las Colinas (Irving, Tex., HP Byron Nelson Championship)
50. TPC San Antonio - AT&T Oaks (San Antonio, Tex., Valero Texas Open)
51. Ritz-Carlton GC - Dove Mountain (Marana, Ariz., WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship)
52. Liberty National GC (Jersey City, N.J., The Barclays)


Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2012-01/photos-best-tour-courses#ixzz1jGmem0dh

swap Old White for Congressional, and Plainfield for Firestone or Innisbrook, and this list wouldn't be that different than a GCA list.....given the choices

They're not really feeling the Plantation Course for some reason. 

[jeffwarne]

Surprising because I thought everybody liked 18 downhill 600 yard par 4's

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