[David_Elvins]

I am surprised no-one has nominated 7 yet.  Pretty greensite but have not seen anyone able to hold the ball on the green (other than rolling back to the bowl at the front of the green).  Too small a target to be a good hole. 

Maybe the blind hazard left of the 17th green is a little clumsy too? 

[Ben Jarvis]

I am surprised no-one has nominated 7 yet.  Pretty greensite but have not seen anyone able to hold the ball on the green (other than rolling back to the bowl at the front of the green).  Too small a target to be a good hole.   

David,

Playing into a strong wind, I hit the most perfect 6-iron imaginable (for me anyway). It was a low draw, stayed under the wind and was all over the pin, pitching from what looked to be at the front edge. I was like a little kid in a lolly (candy for you Americans) store while walking up that hill, only to feel a great sense of disappointment when finding the ball in the back bunker. Perhaps a low cut was the only shot that would hold the green in this case, not easy to do when the wind was coming off the right also.

But, wow - what a view and it was such a fun approach shot - perhaps this is why golfers give it a "free pass" - I know I look back on it with fond memories (apart from the result of my second shot) and would love to play it again.

[Garland Bayley]

...I hit a really solid drive just to the right of the center fairway bunkers only to see it roll back 40 yards.  I then hit a solid iron into the green, saw it bounce up onto the putting surface, only to see it reappear rolling off of the front of the green and back down the fairway 30 yards.  Still don't know exactly what happened (? hit flagstick).  Silly to hit two really solid shots and be penalized over 70 yards.  ...

When did hitting solid shots and having the hole accept them become the criteria for good golf? Now if you had told me you hit two intelligent shots and the hole rejected them, you might have a case.

[Garland Bayley]

Brian,

I think 4 is on a wonderfully fun bit of land. Where does it fall short? And 5 doesn't need great land, just a great green, as it is a par 3. How does it fall short?

[Kirk Moon]

...I hit a really solid drive just to the right of the center fairway bunkers only to see it roll back 40 yards.  I then hit a solid iron into the green, saw it bounce up onto the putting surface, only to see it reappear rolling off of the front of the green and back down the fairway 30 yards.  Still don't know exactly what happened (? hit flagstick).  Silly to hit two really solid shots and be penalized over 70 yards.  ...

When did hitting solid shots and having the hole accept them become the criteria for good golf? Now if you had told me you hit two intelligent shots and the hole rejected them, you might have a case.

Perhaps I failed to embrace the logic of the hole.  I only played it once and obviously haven't had an opportunity to try out different tactics.  But from my humble perspective, there were no other obvious "intelligent" options presented by the fourteenth hole that were vastly superior to the approach that I took on that hole that day.   I just thought the hole was harsh.  It seemed to me that the main rationale for running the hole up that steep hill was to a) reward the players with a nice view of the rest of the course and b) allow for the dramatic tee position on fifteen.   I suppose one could make the exact same argument for seven, but for some reason I didn't mind seven, probably because the landing area for the drive was flat, the view at the top was so great, and it was the first hole of that kind of the course.  

Re other potential stragegic options on fourteen:  Driving the ball to the far right reduced (but did not eliminate) the steep slope of the landing area for the drive but it also significantly increased the distance into the green on the second shot.  It did offer a somewhat better approach angle to the green, but the tradeoff didn't seem very enticing to me.  

One of our caddies pointed out what I thought was perhaps the most attractive and interesting strategic plan for attacking the hole, which was to hit one's drive to the left of the bunkers in the left center of the fairway and then come in to the green via a left sided approach.  The main objection to this plan (and why I didn't pursue it) is that it required that you purposely hit your drive into unmaintained "rough" rather than fairway and I didn't want to take the chance of getting a terrible lie as a reward even if I hit the ball exactly where I wanted it.  I think the hole might benefit if they extended the fairway to the left to allow that approach as a sensible strategic option.

[Garland Bayley]

Kirk,

Since it's a pretty short hole, I have no problem hitting right for a better approach angle. Left of the bunkers works out pretty well for some. I guess someone in the USAPL hit it to a few inches from there.

[Kirk Moon]

Kirk,

Since it's a pretty short hole, I have no problem hitting right for a better approach angle. Left of the bunkers works out pretty well for some. I guess someone in the USAPL hit it to a few inches from there.

I think I just don't like the hole because I'm mad that my second shot didn't end up in the hole rather than 30 yards off of the front of the green.      

I still don't understand what happened to that shot.  Our caddies were confused too.  I came in over the top of the bunker fronting the left front edge of the green and landed it just beyond the bunker with a nice high trajectory with the ball headed right for the flagstick.  One of the caddies thought that it might have hit the stick and bounced backwards towards the front of the green.  Because the green is so elevated none of us could actually see what happened.  All I could see was what I thought was a perfect shot going right for the pin followed shortly thereafter by my ball slowly rolling off of the right front edge of the green and trickling back down the fairway 30 yards or so.  Couldn't help but laugh (and loudly curse out Mr. Doak and his co-conspirators). 

Whatever.  I seem to be scarred for life.   

[Bill_McBride]

...I hit a really solid drive just to the right of the center fairway bunkers only to see it roll back 40 yards.  I then hit a solid iron into the green, saw it bounce up onto the putting surface, only to see it reappear rolling off of the front of the green and back down the fairway 30 yards.  Still don't know exactly what happened (? hit flagstick).  Silly to hit two really solid shots and be penalized over 70 yards.  ...

When did hitting solid shots and having the hole accept them become the criteria for good golf? Now if you had told me you hit two intelligent shots and the hole rejected them, you might have a case.

Perhaps I failed to embrace the logic of the hole.  I only played it once and obviously haven't had an opportunity to try out different tactics.  But from my humble perspective, there were no other obvious "intelligent" options presented by the fourteenth hole that were vastly superior to the approach that I took on that hole that day.   I just thought the hole was harsh.  It seemed to me that the main rationale for running the hole up that steep hill was to a) reward the players with a nice view of the rest of the course and b) allow for the dramatic tee position on fifteen.   I suppose one could make the exact same argument for seven, but for some reason I didn't mind seven, probably because the landing area for the drive was flat, the view at the top was so great, and it was the first hole of that kind of the course.  

Re other potential stragegic options on fourteen:  Driving the ball to the far right reduced (but did not eliminate) the steep slope of the landing area for the drive but it also significantly increased the distance into the green on the second shot.  It did offer a somewhat better approach angle to the green, but the tradeoff didn't seem very enticing to me.  

One of our caddies pointed out what I thought was perhaps the most attractive and interesting strategic plan for attacking the hole, which was to hit one's drive to the left of the bunkers in the left center of the fairway and then come in to the green via a left sided approach.  The main objection to this plan (and why I didn't pursue it) is that it required that you purposely hit your drive into unmaintained "rough" rather than fairway and I didn't want to take the chance of getting a terrible lie as a reward even if I hit the ball exactly where I wanted it.  I think the hole might benefit if they extended the fairway to the left to allow that approach as a sensible strategic option.

My caddy last March suggested I play left of the left fairway bunker on #14 and I tried it once.  He said the rough was light, would leave a short iron at a great angle to a right pin.

The rough was gunch, terrible lie, do not try this!

[Garland Bayley]

My caddy last March suggested I play left of the left fairway bunker on #14 and I tried it once.  He said the rough was light, would leave a short iron at a great angle to a right pin.

The rough was gunch, terrible lie, do not try this!

Bill,

Are you going to get out to Bandon and try the Preserve when it opens?
If they make a DVD about it, maybe you can star in it like Mayhugh does in the Old MacDonald one.

[Bill_McBride]

My caddy last March suggested I play left of the left fairway bunker on #14 and I tried it once.  He said the rough was light, would leave a short iron at a great angle to a right pin.

The rough was gunch, terrible lie, do not try this!

Bill,

Are you going to get out to Bandon and try the Preserve when it opens?
If they make a DVD about it, maybe you can star in it like Mayhugh does in the Old MacDonald one.

Probably not in March again!

[Pete_Pittock]

Hitting left of the bunker into the rough does open up the angle but it really depends on the gorse. The hole doesn't present me with any problems (so far) as I have always held the green with my low spin approaches. I'm a short hitter and don't like to see my ball roll back towards the tee but I don't let it bother me.

Since I will hit at least 27 drivers or 3-woods during a normal round from the green tees the entire Old Macdonald course doesn't float my boat. The majority of my rounds are played in fall and winter into a generally southerly wind.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Since I will hit at least 27 drivers or 3-woods during a normal round from the green tees the entire Old Macdonald course doesn't float my boat. The majority of my rounds are played in fall and winter into a generally southerly wind.

That's an interesting stat Pete. How do you do on the other courses there? Do we need to send you to the Preserve as well?

[Pete_Pittock]

Old Mac has 7 holes I can't reach in regulation, Pac Dunes 2, Trails 1, Bandon Dunes 0.

[Michael George]

I watched the video for the first time last night.  Really great video - even though I felt like I knew nothing about golf course architecture after it.  I highly recommend it. 

Special features are great too, especially the tour of the Renaissance offices.  Tom - is that a metal desk in your office?  I did not know that they sold those still.   

Best part was the John Mayhugh cameo - on 2 separate occasions.  I heard that sales of the video to females have spiked as a result.  John - are you getting a royalty??

[Garland Bayley]

Old Mac has 7 holes I can't reach in regulation, Pac Dunes 2, Trails 1, Bandon Dunes 0.

After playing Old Mac Sunday, I was thinking it could be a Vernon Macan course as Mac cherished the long par 4s.

[Jud_T]

One of the brilliant things about Old Mac, and the resort in general, is that there's a steep local knowledge curve.  Many would say "why have such quirky (read tricked up) holes at a course that many will only play once or twice?".  Because it makes for great golf and keeps you wanting more (i.e. instant return visitor).  

[William_G]

the second shot on 14 can easily go long or short when hit well, that's golf, LOL, your drive should go directly at the green IMHO

[Sven Nilsen]

I think its hard to give a valid opinion on the merits of any hole on the course unless you've played the hole in both the summer and winter winds.  I played 36 on a day with a mild winter wind and found myself wondering how many of the holes would be different in a strong summer breeze. 

A few examples:

6 - clearing the bunker wasn't an issue downwind, but if the breeze is strong enough, there's a great deal of uncertainty in your second shot

10 - a winter breeze brings the fairway bunkers much more into play and holds up an approach that might otherwise run through the green

12 - the Redan becomes a beast when played into the wind

17 - options completely change at the tee depending on direction and strength of the wind

[Joe Bentham]

Old Mac has 7 holes I can't reach in regulation, Pac Dunes 2, Trails 1, Bandon Dunes 0.

Playing the green tees at Old Mac is like playing the blacks on the the other three courses.  Although I'd think holes 4,6,10,11, 16 and 18 where deliberately built on the edge of par so reaching those greens in 'regulation' is no easy feat for any expect the longest of hitters.

[Mike_Trenham]

Old Mac has 7 holes I can't reach in regulation, Pac Dunes 2, Trails 1, Bandon Dunes 0.

Playing the green tees at Old Mac is like playing the blacks on the the other three courses.  Although I'd think holes 4,6,10,11, 16 and 18 where deliberately built on the edge of par so reaching those greens in 'regulation' is no easy feat for any expect the longest of hitters.

This is even more true with the winter wind from the south west that I had last March, with the exception of 11 which played fairly short.

[Tim Bert]

I'm surprised how much of the conversation on 6 revolves around the flattish fairway and whether or not Hell bunker actually comes into play. I thought the green complex on 6 was one of the coolest on the course.

The holes I would put on the lower tier of personal favorites were 11, 12, and 17.   

Tom's comments regarding 17 certainly provide some useful context but I did find the tee hole to be brutally difficult in the winter wind. Between the pond and the lost ball opportunity left off the tee and the fairly tight falloff left of the hole closer to the green, I thought it was a bit out of character with the lost ball potential throughout the rest of the course. There was certainly some beautiful bunkering and a wonderful green there. I'd like to try it again in the summer wind. 

[Joe Bentham]

17 is an 'easier' hole in the winter wind IMO.  The drive down the right with the helping wind can be accomplished with a well struck fairway wood for most (in fact big hitters are well advised to club down on the tee shot), and the advantage in angle that side provides on the second shot is tremendous. 
The summer wind takes the right hand side out of play for most, and is foolish play for all except the longest of hitters with the thought of reaching the green in two.  In order to achieve a decent angle of approach into the green from the left side for one's third a longish layup is required.  Which I think is a neat feature of the hole.
I agree with Tim whole heartedly about 6.  The green complex is one of the places at old mac you could spend an hour putting and not get bored!

[David_Elvins]

Joe B,

What are your experiences with players' approach shots on 7?

Do many stop on the shelf?

[Joe Bentham]

The approach into 7 is tough for a couple of reasons.  Golfers usually hit too much club too far left of the pin.  The elevation isn't as much (I guess) as it appears and the safe side of the green is usually right of the pin near or over the bunkering on the right.  Tough hole but people usually forget about that as soon as the crest the hill and catch the view.

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