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Jim Nelson

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Northern Scotland courses
« on: January 10, 2012, 10:12:03 AM »
We are planning a trip to Northern Scotland and have the usual suspects on the list including Royal Dornach, Royal Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay and yes, maybe even Trumps new course.  What are some of the hidden gems up there we should play?  Any course we should avoid?  Also, a little off topic, but any recommendations on lodging for 8 plus travelers?

Thanks.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 10:15:07 AM »
Peterhead
Fraserburgh
Nairn
Tain
Brora
Golspie
Boat of Garten
Fortrose & Rosemarkie
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 10:17:24 AM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 10:21:30 AM »
Peterhead
Fraserburgh
Nairn
Tain
Brora
Golspie
Boat of Garten
Fortrose & Rosemarkie
Thanks for the quick response.  If you only had time for three of these...
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 10:23:28 AM »
We are planning a trip to Northern Scotland and have the usual suspects on the list including Royal Dornach, Royal Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay and yes, maybe even Trumps new course.  What are some of the hidden gems up there we should play?  Any course we should avoid?  Also, a little off topic, but any recommendations on lodging for 8 plus travelers?

Thanks.

Brora-not so hidden, but an incredible gem.
Golspie
Fortrose and Rosemarkle
Tain
Moray new/old

could probably play all 6 for the price of Trump by the time you throw in caddie (wondr if the white suits will be gortex)

there are multiple others-Brora is a special place

Boat of garten
peterhead

Just saw Jim's response
just 3?

Brora
Fortrose
MoralyOld
and/or the one that was geographically most convenient
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 10:29:13 AM »
We are planning a trip to Northern Scotland and have the usual suspects on the list including Royal Dornach, Royal Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay and yes, maybe even Trumps new course.  What are some of the hidden gems up there we should play?  Any course we should avoid?  Also, a little off topic, but any recommendations on lodging for 8 plus travelers?

Thanks.

Brora-not so hidden, but an incredible gem.
Golspie
Fortrose and Rosemarkle
Tain
Moray new/old

could probably play all 6 for the price of Trump by the time you throw in caddie (wondr if the white suits will be gortex)

there are multiple others-Brora is a special place

Boat of garten
peterhead

Just saw Jim's response
just 3?

Brora
Fortrose
MoralyOld
and/or the one that was geographically most convenient
Only three/four because of the first 4-5 although if we don't have to do much driving, we will go for 36 and be able to fit in more.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 10:35:43 AM »
We are planning a trip to Northern Scotland and have the usual suspects on the list including Royal Dornach, Royal Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay and yes, maybe even Trumps new course.  What are some of the hidden gems up there we should play?  Any course we should avoid?  Also, a little off topic, but any recommendations on lodging for 8 plus travelers?

Thanks.

Brora-not so hidden, but an incredible gem.
Golspie
Fortrose and Rosemarkle
Tain
Moray new/old

could probably play all 6 for the price of Trump by the time you throw in caddie (wondr if the white suits will be gortex)

there are multiple others-Brora is a special place

Boat of garten
peterhead

Just saw Jim's response
just 3?

Brora
Fortrose
Moray Old
and/or the one that was geographically most convenient
Only three/four because of the first 4-5 although if we don't have to do much driving, we will go for 36 and be able to fit in more.


Jim, the thirty minutes it takes to detour to Brora or Fortrose will be more than made up for by the 3 1/2 hour round as opposed to what you face at some of the other courses where many will be into "the experience" (especially if you have caddies)
i would imagine at Trump you'll get at least a 10 minute presentation/infomercial from the Starter and probably complimentary range balls ::) ::)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 10:39:21 AM »
Anyone ;familiar with:

Cullen
Findochty
Spey Bay
Hopeman

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 10:40:09 AM »
So let me re-phrase this question a bit.  What would be your best/dream itinerary for Northern Scotland?  We have a least a solid 7 days on the ground and are planning mid to late August.  Thanks for giving this some thought.  We are already starting to salivate.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 10:44:45 AM »
Jim,

If you have the chance to play 36 in the day, don't make the mistake of hitting and running at two places.  Take the day to play 36 at one course, have lunch, soak in the atmosphere, relax and get to know the course a bit better?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 10:47:47 AM »
If you stay in Dornoch and then travel to Aberdeen, it would be easy to play RD x2 plus Brora and Golspie.  You could play Castle Stuart or Nairn en route to Aberdeen for the rest of the trip.  It's easy to fly into Inverness (close to Dornoch) and out of Aberdeen if you fly into London and transfer to Easy Jet.  

How many?  GCAer David Tepper has a very comfortable flat in Dornoch that sleeps four and is a short walk to the first tee and the local pubs.  
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 11:53:30 AM by Bill_McBride »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 10:49:21 AM »
Jim N. -

I have visited the Dornoch area twice each of the past 8 years and spent 7 weeks a year there each of the past 4 years. I will send you a message a little later in the day with some thoughts & suggestions.

I will likely be in Dornoch the last couple of weeks this August myself. Be aware the Carnegie Shield is being held at Royal Dornoch August 19-25 this year and the course will not be available for visitor play then.

DT  

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2012, 10:51:09 AM »
Get over to Askernish, in August it’s a must. Try playing the Cullen, Moray old, Strathpeffer Spa, Askernish, Machrie, Dornoch, and Brora - play 36 Holes not just the 18 and take your time to enjoy the day at each course. Its quality that counts not quantity.

Melvyn


Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2012, 10:52:04 AM »
Jim,

If you have the chance to play 36 in the day, don't make the mistake of hitting and running at two places.  Take the day to play 36 at one course, have lunch, soak in the atmosphere, relax and get to know the course a bit better?
Agreed.  This group has played some great courses in Scotland and Ireland, but alas, many of them only once.  We are planning to play Royal Dornoch twice to avoid this past mistake.  Not sure which other courses/ambience demand a replay.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 10:55:19 AM »
If you stay in Dornoch and then travel to Aberdeen, it would be easy to play RD x2 plus Brora and Golspie.  You could play Castle Stuart or Nairn en route to Aberdeen for the rest of the trip.  It's easy to fly into Inverness (close to Dornoch) and out of Aberdeen if you fly into London and transfer to Easy Jet.  

How many?  GCAer David Tepper has a very comfortable flat in Dornoch that sleeps four and is a short walk to the first Ted and the local pubs.  
8ish travelers.  Yes, we were figuring to travel in and out of Aberdeen/Inverness.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 10:55:54 AM »
Jim,

If you have the chance to play 36 in the day, don't make the mistake of hitting and running at two places.  Take the day to play 36 at one course, have lunch, soak in the atmosphere, relax and get to know the course a bit better?
Agreed.  This group has played some great courses in Scotland and Ireland, but alas, many of them only once.  We are planning to play Royal Dornoch twice to avoid this past mistake.  Not sure which other courses/ambience demand a replay.

Defer to David's advice
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 10:57:49 AM »
Get over to Askernish, in August it’s a must. Try playing the Cullen, Moray old, Strathpeffer Spa, Askernish, Machrie, Dornoch, and Brora - play 36 Holes not just the 18 and take your time to enjoy the day at each course. Its quality that counts not quantity.

Melvyn

Thanks.  We are trying to use two bases, but if my geography is correct, some of the course you mentioned are a fair drive.  Agreed on quality.  We have learned, although each of our trips has been memorable.


I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 10:58:07 AM »
you are covering some ground, but I wouldn't even consider Brora an also-ran - its a must play if one is up there.

I am not sure of where you are flying to/from, but seven days is a bit of a rush to go from Brora to Aberdeen.  Be that as it may if from Aberdeen:

Day 1. Cruden Bay
2. Moray Old
3. Brora x 2 days
4. Dornoch x 2 days
5. Castle Stuart
6. Aberdeen

While I like Aberdeen and Cruden Bay a lot, you may want to consider:

Day 1. Castle Stuart
2. Fortrose
3. Brora x 2 days
4. Dornoch x 2 days
5. Boat of Garten
6. Moray Old

Ciao

« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 11:03:05 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 11:03:36 AM »
Jim N. -

I have visited the Dornoch area twice each of the past 8 years and spent 7 weeks a year there each of the past 4 years. I will send you a message a little later in the day with some thoughts & suggestions.

I will likely be in Dornoch the last couple of weeks this August myself. Be aware the Carnegie Shield is being held at Royal Dornoch August 19-25 this year and the course will not be available for visitor play then.

DT  
Thanks for the heads up.  I will contact them on when the course is open for outside groups.  I assume this will bunch up advance reservations.  We would love to have you join us for a round or two if available.  Others out there are well.  Let me know.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 11:17:24 AM »
Definitely book at least one round at the less reknowned courses.  In my only very brief trip I played Kilspindie in East Lothian just to get the feel of a local club/course.  Enjoying visiting the modest clubhouse and chatting with the club manager and golf professional who really seemed to appreciat that I sought out their course.  Ask for recommendation of a local pub which they frequent. 

Rarely a day goes by that I don't long to return to Scotland solo and just wander around.  I love it.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 11:22:45 AM »
Here is a nice (if a little dated) article on golf in the Highlands:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/to-the-highlands


Phil McDade

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Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 11:42:20 AM »
Jim:

David Tepper probably knows this area as well as anyone on the board; he'll have good suggestions.

In addition, I think Mike Hendren's advice about "getting away" from the usual suspects is quite sound. Part of the great allure of Scotland as a place to play golf is to experience it as the Scots do -- an everyday thing that all manner of folks participate in. Some of my best memories of golfing in Scotland were the unplanned, serendipitous rounds and clubhouse conversations with members of less-than-well-known courses.

I've played a few of the courses among those mentioned, and here are some thoughts:

-- If you play Cruden Bay, it's well worth it to make the short-ish trip up to Fraserburgh -- a very good links course (save for the 1st and 18th holes) that gets a lot less play from Americans than Cruden Bay. Some Scots -- not all, but more than a few -- consider Fraserburgh a better overall links course. I wouldn't go out of my way to play Peterhead -- decent, but not as good as Fraserburgh. For a truly crazy, out-of-this-world round in the Aberdeen area that shouldn't take you more than 2+ hours -- with incredible views and a great old clubhouse -- try Stonehaven. Maybe a late evening round? Easy to do in less than 3 hours, and something you won't forget.

-- Depending on how you arrive, and where you are based, the road from Cruden Bay to Moray/Nairn is quite slow -- the better part of half-a-day. But, it is wonderfully scenic, and Cullen is a very sporty, fun little course along the way. It gets very little play from the American crowd, and thus it's all the more welcoming to visitors from here. You play among the giant sea stacks that dot the course.

-- Boat of Garten is well worth a round -- it's not that far south of Inverness, and conveniently located just a few minutes off the A9. A very good inland course, tougher than its short length might suggest, and a great setting amid the Cairngorms. A change of pace, and a very interesting one, from links courses. Designed by James Braid. The Boat Hotel is pretty good as far as local accomodations if staying overnight.

Among the GCA crowd, Dornoch and Brora are probably must plays, and probably repeat plays as well. Nairn and Tain get mixed reviews from the GCA crowd, but Fortrose & Rosemarkie has been generally well-reviewed here. There is a little 9-hole links course east of Tain called Portmahomack that David Tepper might know -- again, one of those little-known Scottish courses that gets very little American play. And not far from Dornoch is a little, quite hilly course called Strathpeffer Spa that David T. may know about. Said to hold some interest, and great views.

Lots of good choices -- but I'd highly recommend getting away from the belt-notchers for at least a day to play a course few folks encounter on their Scotland trips. They are well worth seeking out.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2012, 12:03:19 PM »
you are covering some ground, but I wouldn't even consider Brora an also-ran - its a must play if one is up there.

I am not sure of where you are flying to/from, but seven days is a bit of a rush to go from Brora to Aberdeen.  Be that as it may if from Aberdeen:

Day 1. Cruden Bay
2. Moray Old
3. Brora x 2 days
4. Dornoch x 2 days
5. Castle Stuart
6. Aberdeen

While I like Aberdeen and Cruden Bay a lot, you may want to consider:

Day 1. Castle Stuart
2. Fortrose
3. Brora x 2 days
4. Dornoch x 2 days
5. Boat of Garten
6. Moray Old

Ciao



For the ambitious, but highly doable

Day 1 arrive Aberdeen -play cruden bay- stay aberdeen
Day 2  play Royal Aberdeen, play Murcar-stay Aberdeen
Day 3 Play Fraserburgh- play Cullen(shorter than regulation)-stay Moray
Day  4 Play Moray-Play  Fortrose--stay Dornoch   (Fortrose an easy level walk)
Day 5 Play Brora x 2 stay Dornoch (Brora's an easy walk)
Day 6 Play Dornoch x2 stay Dornoch
Day 7 Castle Stuart stay Inverness airport


12 rounds 7 days, cut where needed

I personally would skip castle Stuart as I prefer the smaller off the beaten path courses and would insert a round at Golspie(not at the expense of a day at brora)

I usually like to have a few 9 holers as 27 hole days are great
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 06:25:02 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2012, 12:11:17 PM »
Why not two full days of 36 at Royal Dornoch or at least one 36 hole day and then 18 at Dornoch and 18 at Brora the next? 2 out of 7 days at Dornoch will still give you plenty of time elsewhere.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Dan Grossman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2012, 12:24:49 PM »
Having done this trip, I can only tell you what we did.  I certainly enjoyed it and would do it again.

Day 1 - We flew into Aberdeen in the morning (from Manchester) and played Fraserburgh and Peterhead.  I thought Fraserburgh was great and would wholeheartedly recommend it.  Peterhead was good, although I am not sure I would give up a round somewhere else to play there.

Day 2 - 36 holes at Cruden Bay / Cruden Bay has been discussed a lot on this board and is one of my favorite courses.  36 holes is a great day with lunch in the clubhouse.  

Day 3 - 18 holes at Moray Old (Lossiemouth) and 18 holes at Boat of Garten.  We didn't have much expectations for this day and were blown away.  We thought Lossiemouth was great (I actually loved the fighter jets in contrast to T Doak).  Boat of Garten was just wonderful.  It is short and quirky, but very interesting.  

Day 4 - 18 holes at Golspie in the morning and 18 holes at Brora in the afternoon.  Golspie was great, it has some links qualities and some heathland qualities that I found very charming.  I personally liked it better than Brora, although I am in the minority on that front.  

Day 5 - 36 holes at Royal Dornoch.  Nuff said.

Day 6 - 18 holes at Skibo Castle in the morning and 18 holes at Tain in the afternoon.  I liked Skibo Castle, although it looks like (from Ran's profile) it has been changed for the better since I played it.  Tain was ok in my opinion, should have played Dornoch again.

Here are some photos of some of the courses...

Cruden Bay

#4


#5


#8

#16


Golspie



Boat of Garten





Fraserburgh





« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 12:26:29 PM by Dan Grossman »

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Northern Scotland courses
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2012, 02:39:52 PM »
Anyone ;familiar with:

Cullen
Findochty
Spey Bay
Hopeman



Michael

Cullen - Someone else has given a mention to Cullen and the only thing I would add is that there are something like 10 to 11 par 3's varying in length from a 9 iron to a wood. Some of them play over giant sea stacks to unseen greens, some over chasms along the cliff edge, some from the top of the cliff to the bottom and some from the bottom to the top. The par is something like a 62. If you are happy with a "quirk" and out for good fun holiday golf you'll have a blast. If however you have only one mind set and that being championship golf then don't bother.

Findochty - the course is actually Strathlene and was originally laid out as a 9 holer by Old Tom. Its subsequently been redesigned and extended into 18 holes. Not as quirky as Cullen but good fun and again in the categiory of good holiday golf. BTW, if you want to impress the locals, Findochty is pronounced Fineckty.

Spey Bay - 1908 layout by Ben Sayers that has changed little other than three holes created as a result of losing land to the sea. The maintenance is fairly basic although the course which is private has a new owner who is trying to keep it going but its not for the faint hearted. Square greens and rabbit holes, bags of charm ! Oh and it also has an honesty box to pay your green fee.

Hopeman - some nice holes and interesting old world architecture if you like a bit of alpinisation. Also has one of the prettiest drop short par 3's into a sheltered cove on the shore. Unfortunately it has several rather dull holes near the road which take the shine off it for me but each to their own. Again, holiday golf category.

Michael, you could also play Buckpool which is between Strathlene and Spey bay and is better than both IMO. Dates from the 1930's and just good cliff type golf. Also Kingston and Garmouth course which is on the opposite side of Spey Bay from the Spey Bay course and is a curious mixture of links and parkland. Again, pretty decent holiday golf.

Niall