[George Freeman]

There is golf, and then there is tournament links golf.

A couple nights ago I was flipping through the channels and came upon a 1-hour highlight show about the 2011 British Open at Royal St. George’s.  As the Open highlight shows always seem to be a notch above the rest, I happily hunkered down for the next 60 minutes and enjoyed the recap.  It was a great championship, if perhaps only missing a little nail-biting excitement at the end. 

In player interviews (overlaid throughout the show) I think I counted 4-5 of the players mentioning links golf and how enjoyable it is and how much strategy and feel and finesse and luck and skill and creativity, and, and it takes to play and play well.  And what they were saying was 100% confirmed by the highlights:  low ball flights, high ball flights, fades, draws, run-ups, the use of slopes, 650 yard par-5s reachable downwind and 450 yard par-4s hardly reachable into the wind.  All I could think the entire show is how lucky the people are that get to play a majority of their golf this way on links golf courses.

Directly after this show was the same style show highlighting the 2011 PGA Championship (however it was not done nearly was well).  I was initially excited to watch this show as well as I had missed a majority of the championship due to a family vacation.  About 10 minutes into it, I found myself reading a magazine, flipping channels, etc, whereas I was glued to the screen for the Open Championship show.  Take into consideration that the PGA Championship was a wild ride of a tournament and went to extra holes. 

Now the point of this thread isn’t to knock the Atlanta Athletic Club.  I have never played the course and therefore really can’t opine on it.  The point is that watching these two tournaments back-to-back made me realize just how DIFFERENT target golf and links golf really are.  It seems almost like who separate sports, or at least Golf-A and Golf-B.  Even though AAC was playing mildly firm for an American-style course in the south in August, it is unbelievable how little the ball moves around on that type of course.  Hit it from point A to point B, then to point C. 

I feel like I always knew how different these two types of golf are, but I was truly amazed watching these two tournaments one after the other.

[Phil McDade]

George:

Couldn't agree more, esp. with those two sites (one of my favorites to watch among the Open rota, and one of my least favorite in recent years for the PGA). The land plays so much more of a role at a links course, and especially one the caliber of Sandwich.

[jeffwarne]

There is golf, and then there is tournament links golf.

A couple nights ago I was flipping through the channels and came upon a 1-hour highlight show about the 2011 British Open at Royal St. George’s.  As the Open highlight shows always seem to be a notch above the rest, I happily hunkered down for the next 60 minutes and enjoyed the recap.  It was a great championship, if perhaps only missing a little nail-biting excitement at the end. 

In player interviews (overlaid throughout the show) I think I counted 4-5 of the players mentioning links golf and how enjoyable it is and how much strategy and feel and finesse and luck and skill and creativity, and, and it takes to play and play well.  And what they were saying was 100% confirmed by the highlights:  low ball flights, high ball flights, fades, draws, run-ups, the use of slopes, 650 yard par-5s reachable downwind and 450 yard par-4s hardly reachable into the wind.  All I could think the entire show is how lucky the people are that get to play a majority of their golf this way on links golf courses.

Directly after this show was the same style show highlighting the 2011 PGA Championship (however it was not done nearly was well).  I was initially excited to watch this show as well as I had missed a majority of the championship due to a family vacation.  About 10 minutes into it, I found myself reading a magazine, flipping channels, etc, whereas I was glued to the screen for the Open Championship show.  Take into consideration that the PGA Championship was a wild ride of a tournament and went to extra holes. 

Now the point of this thread isn’t to knock the Atlanta Athletic Club.  I have never played the course and therefore really can’t opine on it.  The point is that watching these two tournaments back-to-back made me realize just how DIFFERENT target golf and links golf really are.  It seems almost like who separate sports, or at least Golf-A and Golf-B.  Even though AAC was playing mildly firm for an American-style course in the south in August, it is unbelievable how little the ball moves around on that type of course.  Hit it from point A to point B, then to point C. 

I feel like I always knew how different these two types of golf are, but I was truly amazed watching these two tournaments one after the other.

Actually, it frustrates me when I hear the top players talk about "links golf" , like it's a subset of golf like "target golf", or "desert golf".

At the Open Championship, they play "golf" and every other week they play some inferior subset of it.

[George Freeman]

Jeff - unfortunately the reason they refer to it as "links" golf and not just golf is due how little of it they actually play these days.  It's unfortunate and I would tend to agree with you.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff - unfortunately the reason they refer to it as "links" golf and not just golf is due how little of it they actually play these days.  It's unfortunate and I would tend to agree with you.

Just gotta change them one player at a time

[David_Tepper]

Tennis is another game where the playing surface can greatly influence how the game is played. Tennis played on a grass court is a much different game than tennis played on a slow clay court. It is not a fluke that Federer, McEnroe and Sampras together have won 15+ Wimbledon championships but only 1 French championship (and it took an injury to Nadal for Federer to win that one!).

I can remember when the U.S. Tennis Association (USTA) used to be called the U.S. Lawn Tennis Association (USLTA).   

Hopefully, links (or links-like) golf will not become marginalized as grass court tennis has.   

[jeffwarne]

Tennis is another game where the playing surface can greatly influence how the game is played. Tennis played on a grass court is a much different game than tennis played on a slow clay court. It is not a fluke that Federer, McEnroe and Sampras together have won 15+ Wimbledon championships but only 1 French championship (and it took an injury to Nadal for Federer to win that one!).

I can remember when the U.S. Tennis Association (USTA) used to be called the U.S. Lawn Tennis Association (USLTA).   

Hopefully, links (or links-like) golf will not become marginalized as grass court tennis has.   

It already has, just by having to refer to it as "links golf"

How about golf and "inland golf" (that's as polite as I can be)

[JLahrman]

Tennis is another game where the playing surface can greatly influence how the game is played. Tennis played on a grass court is a much different game than tennis played on a slow clay court. It is not a fluke that Federer, McEnroe and Sampras together have won 15+ Wimbledon championships but only 1 French championship (and it took an injury to Nadal for Federer to win that one!).

I can remember when the U.S. Tennis Association (USTA) used to be called the U.S. Lawn Tennis Association (USLTA).   

Hopefully, links (or links-like) golf will not become marginalized as grass court tennis has.   

David, over the past few years do you believe that the surfaces have started to become more similar though? Especially Wimbledon, which seems to not play as fast and where matches over the past couple of years have turned into baseline affairs?

Nobody has won the calendar Grand Slam since Laver. But the instances of guys winning three in a year have become almost routine. From 1970 through 2003 I only see it having been accomplished twice - by Connors in 1974 and Wilander in 1988. Since then though, it's happened five times in eight years - Djokovic in 2011, Nadal in 2010, Federer in 2004, 2006, and 2007.

Part of it is no doubt because Federer and Nadal (and Djokovic last year) are great players and a few steps ahead of everyone else. And in the 1970s and 1980s it was not uncommon for guys to skip majors, especially Australia. But it seems to me that the surfaces have been made more similar. You just don't have clay court specialists anymore - Sergi Bruguera or Albert Costa-type guys. Maybe the equipment is contributing as well. The tennis being played on the different surfaces just seems to look more and more alike.

[Jason Topp]

[David, over the past few years do you believe that the surfaces have started to become more similar though? Especially Wimbledon, which seems to not play as fast and where matches over the past couple of years have turned into baseline affairs?

There was an interesting article on this point last year.  It included photos of grass wear at Wimbledon that showed how different the wear patterns are today v. many years ago.  The net area is no longer worn down as it once was. 

I recall the article also discussing some change in the clay surfaces that make the French less unique than it once was. 

[David_Tepper]

Jeff  W. -

I would disagree with you a bit. Whereas grass court tennis in the U.S. (and Australia, I believe) is pretty much extinct, at least at the competitive level, I think links (or links-like) golf is definitely on an uptick.

1) The success of the Bandon resort has introduced the pleasures and virtues of links golf to thousands of American golfers, many of whom have never played the links courses of GB&I.  Courses/clubs such as Sand Hills and Ballyneal have done the same.

2) Clearly there is a movement in the U.S. remove trees and make courses play firmer and faster (more links-like). Oakmont is the poster child for this.

3) At the professional level, moving the Scottish Open from Loch Lomond to Castle Stuart (and having that course so well received by the players) adds another links venue to the schedule. The growing success of the Ladies British Open from moving it to Open Rota of courses has further raised the visitbility of links golf.        

I think this are all  positives.

DT

[jeffwarne]

Jeff  W. -

I would disagree with you a bit. Whereas grass court tennis in the U.S. (and Australia, I believe) is pretty much extinct, at least at the competitive level, I think links (or links-like) golf is definitely on an uptick.

1) The success of the Bandon resort has introduced the pleasures and virtues of links golf to thousands of American golfers, many of whom have never played the links courses of GB&I.  Courses/clubs such as Sand Hills and Ballyneal have done the same.

2) Clearly there is a movement in the U.S. remove trees and make courses play firmer and faster (more links-like). Oakmont is the poster child for this.

3) At the professional level, moving the Scottish Open from Loch Lomond to Castle Stuart (and having that course so well received by the players) adds another links venue to the schedule. The growing success of the Ladies British Open from moving it to Open Rota of courses has further raised the visitbility of links golf.        

I think this are all  positives.

DT

David agreed.
So can I get you to start calling it golf now? , and clarify all the other crap?

FYI we're building 3 grass tennis courts this summer

[David_Tepper]

Joel & Jason -

I didn't introduce tennis trying to hijack this thread quite so quickly! My apologies to George Freeman.
 
Without taking things too much further off topic, I agree with what you both are saying. In terms of "style" of play, tennis (like golf) has become more one dimensional, regardless of the playing surface. The changes in equipment, both rackets and balls, over the past 20-30 years is a big reason, again much like golf.

In retrospect, the success Bjorn Borg had, in winning both the Wimbledon & French championships in the same year multiple times (and doing it playing with a wood racket!), is one of the great feats in the history of the game.

DT  

    

[Sean_A]

George

While links is famous for its firm conditions, I think what makes links so special is how well they play in the winter.  In the past two weeks I played two highly rated inland courses which are meant to be heathland and a links course.  The links was a superior experience because of the consistency of dry golf.  The older I get the more I appreciate this element of year round consistency which links provides like no other type of course.  From this perspective I can certainly say there is links and then there is everything else. 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

George

While links is famous for its firm conditions, I think what makes links so special is how well they play in the winter.  In the past two weeks I played two highly rated inland courses which are meant to be heathland and a links course.  The links was a superior experience because of the consistency of dry golf.  The older I get the more I appreciate this element of year round consistency which links provides like no other type of course.  From this perspective I can certainly say there is links and then there is everything else. 

Ciao

Winter golf on the links is a great part of the fun... Like a bracing New Year's walk along the beach... Good for the health...

It is interesting to note how much of Darwin's writing refers to matches played in the winter...

[Tony_Muldoon]

Golf was of course originally a winter game.  Then there was no farming or hunting to do and the sheep had cropped the fescues down it was time to play goff.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Rye is reckoned to be at its best in winter and Aldeburgh (not actually a links but very fast and firm) prides itself on that, too. Many golfers from the English midlands and north west take out membership of seaside courses in North Wales so that they can play in winter, their own home courses being mud baths on clay. Winter green fees make a considerable contribution to the income of the North Wales seaside courses.

[Kalen Braley]

And when you don't live near linksy golf courses...

...you just play in the winter time when the fairways and greens are frozen and you get a somewhat rough approximation of that.  I played with some buddies yesterday and even with a wedge in hand you couldn't land the ball on the green or it would go bye bye over the green.  Makes for fun and imaginative shots.

[Tim Martin]

And when you don't live near linksy golf courses...

...you just play in the winter time when the fairways and greens are frozen and you get a somewhat rough approximation of that.  I played with some buddies yesterday and even with a wedge in hand you couldn't land the ball on the green or it would go bye bye over the green.  Makes for fun and imaginative shots.

+1
With the amount of rain we have seen in New England the last couple years Winter golf is really the only truly fast and firm conditions we have seen except for some select periods. I love the contrast and the way the conditions force you to create shots.

[Steve Salmen]

One of the most incredible feats in golf was in 2006.  On two completely different golf courses, Royal Liverpool and Medinah, Tiger Woods shot eighteen under par at each venue to win both the Open and the PGA.

All other accomplishments aside, I really don't think I'll live to see a golfer not just win, but dominate at every level of golf challenge. 

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