News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kawartha G&CC

Peterborough, Ontario, Canada






Architect: Stanley Thompson (1931), Ian Andrew (2006)

Yardage: 6,458, Par 71

Slope/Rating: 71.6/125

My Quick Review: Certainly one of Canada's 50 best -- too bad course rating panelists won't get in the car!


My Thoughts

Kawartha was a course that came highly recommended to me by people that had seen many great courses.  It required convincing to make the two-hour drive to Peterborough, but now I am certainly a believer.  Kawartha easily belongs among the 50 best courses in Canada, and could be higher, yet it's nowhere to be found in the magazine rankings.

The Routing is exceptional.  Thompson moves you around this wonderfully rolling piece of land with ease.  Elevation changes are substantial but gradual and walking Kawartha is a joy.  Perhaps there are a couple of kinks, such as the walks to 8 tee and 14 tee, but fortunately these are scenic walks through the woods, which do not detract from the experience.  Somehow, even crossing the entrance road to play the 17th and 18th holes, has an intimate experience.

No doubt the highlight of the golf course is the set of par-3s.  Traditionally we see the short par-3 play uphill and the long ones downhill, making all of the holes play similar yardages -- not so at Kawartha!  The par-3 6th is an absolute devil of a hole, playing 223 yards straight uphill.  A very strong hole.  Though the course finishes with a par-3, those looking for a 'memorable finish' will not be disappointed.

If in the Toronto Area, Kawartha is absolutely a must-play.  And the best part? It's semi-private and reasonably priced.  Don't bother having your pro try to call to get you on one of the courses in the GTA, just get in your car and drive -- you will not be disappointed.


A secluded entrance after turning off a busy street.




Holes to Note

Hole 2: Par 4, 355 Yards

The second is all about the green.  The hole moves to the left, begging the golfer to challenge the left side, but a tee shot to short on that line will be blocked out by trees.  The smart golfer will play down the right side, using the natural fairway contours to bring his ball into the centre of the fairway and closer to the green.

2nd Tee




Once in the fairway, the golfer is challenged to find a green that is guarded by bunkers short-left and long-right.  The green flows naturally from the fairway and once again, using the ground contours, balls can land short and right of the green and can feed all the way to the difficult to access back-left portion of the green.

Approach to the 2nd




The green and surrounds are nothing less than exceptional.  I have seen over 20 Thompson designed golf courses, and I believe this to be the boldest and best green on any them.  The bunkering demands that the player get both line and distance correct.  Shots long enough to reach the back portion of the green must be exceptionally precise, as a push into the right bunker leaves a very difficult recovery.


2nd Green from Right -- The green is two-tiered with a significant ridge bisecting it.  Putting from one section to the other is extremely difficult.




2nd Green




2nd Green from Behind




Hole 4: Par 5, 456 Yards

This is really a par 4.5, but it's a very good hole -- a down then up par 5 that moves to the left and climaxes with a great green.
The tee shot is played downhill to a wide fairway that is pinched by a grouping of fairway bunkers about 250 yards off the tee.  Players can try to skirt the left side of the fairway for a shorter approach into the green, but shots that flirt with the fairway bunkers have the preferred angle.

4 Tee




One thing found at Kawartha, but almost never found at modern courses, is micro-contouring in the fairway.  The ground is gently rumpled, keeping the golfer always on his toes with an awkward stance.

The Gently Contoured 4th Fairway.




To have any chance of reaching the green, the player must have 220 yards or less into the green.  From there, the green starts to come into view.  The Approach from 210 Yards




The Approach from 130 Yards.





The 4th green is fantastic.  The whole green slopes toward a small bowl in the middle-left portion of the green.  A pin location in the bowl is easy, every other possible pin position is tough!

4th Green







Hole 6: Par 3, 223 Yards

This is a phenomenal par-3 that breaks the mould of traditional architecture.  Not only is this par-3 over 220 yards, but it plays uphill, to a diagonal green, with the deepest greenside bunkering on the golf course.  Though there is some room to run the ball onto the green, the steep grade of the slope short of the green, means that most shots landing short will not bounce forward -- instead, these shots will veer left, toward the deep greenside bunkers.

6 Tee:




The ground short of the 6th green slopes hard from right to left




6 green from right:





Shots that miss left find the deepest bunker on the golf course





Hole 8: Par 3, 151 Yards

It is a bit of a trek to get from the 7th green to the 8th tee, but at least the 8th is a stunner!  Oh, and on the walk you get a glimpse at the left greenside bunker, which is among the most unique I have ever seen.

8 Tee.





The eighth plays downhill to a very narrow green with a larger back portion.  Deep bunkers on both sides of the green place a premium on accuracy.  The left greenside bunker has a one-of-a-kind mound in its centre that can make for some very interesting lies.

The unique greenside bunker on 8







Hole 11: Par 5, 494 Yards

The downhill par-5 11th begins inconspicuously -- a tee shot to a fairly wide fairway guarded only by trees on the left, giving the player the feeling that the left is probably the ideal line (and it is).

11 Tee





As the player crests the hill, he is hit by one of those "oh wow" moments.  The second shot continues down the hill, all the way to green, which is guarded by a crossing stream and a deep fronting bunker.

11 Approach





In 2006, as part of Ian Andrew's restoration, a pond short of the 11th green was converted into a stream.  Whereas, in the past, weaker players were forced to carry a 100 yard wide pond, they now must only carry a 10 yard wide stream.  An excellent change.

A stream protects the 11th green...




As does a deep fronting bunker





Hole 13: Par 4, 391 Yards

On a course full of strong holes, this one may be the best.  A short walk from the 12th green to the 13th tee passes by the back of the 18th green, and one cannot help but think, "wow, when do I get to play that!?"  Fortunately, in seeing the 13th, most player's minds should return to the task at hand.

13 Tee




 The 13th gives the feeling of a downhill hole, but it plays substantially uphill.  Teeing off over the aforementioned ravine to a fairway the flows naturally with the land, sloping significantly from left-to-right.  Thompson no doubt is successful in luring many players to try to cut-off more than they are capable of, leaving them in horrible position in the right rough.  The intelligent play is to the left side of the fairway, where the fairway contours are steepest and will kick the ball toward the centre of the fairway.

Approach to 13 from right side of fairway




The approach to the 13th green is extremely difficult.  Not only does it play significantly uphill, but the green is guarded by extremely deep fronting bunkers, and even deeper valley to the right of the green.

A deep valley right of the green...don't miss here



Very deep fronting bunkers... don't miss here either!




Fortunately, the green at 13 is quite large and among the flattest on the course.




Hole 18: Par 3, 198 Yards

A stunning and difficult finishing hole, the 18th plays nearly 200 yards to an extremely well-bunkered, two-tiered green.  Shots can miss short, but not anywhere else.

18 Tee





As the player moves up in tees, the angle into the 18th green becomes easier.  From the back tee (pictured above), there is a forced carry over the right greenside bunkers, but from the middle and forward sets, the player is free to run the ball onto the green.

Right Greenside Bunkers




Right Greenside Bunkers (with an artsy flair)


 

Left Greenside Bunkers




18 from Behind - Note the Two-Tiered Green


« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 09:47:15 AM by Mark Saltzman »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
This course looks excellent!!!

Thanks Mark.  I'd love to hear a few words from Ian on this course.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ian Andrew


Here are some more images.
It's after midnight - so I'll post information on the course and history tomorrow.



9th green


The 11th before


The approach to the 14th


14th left bunker - the 'Octopus'


14th right bunker


The 18th
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:24:18 AM by Ian Andrew »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ian, I've seen your bunkering at Cherry Hill...no octopi nor ones like hole # 8...are those at Kawartha your work or Stanley's?

On 13, what won't a high cut from Jack Nicklaus cure on that hole?

Mark, it seems that Stanley gives you room to miss/lay up on one side of a target, be it left, right, or front...did you find that to be the case, even on the "oh, wow" holes?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ron, great question about the unique bunkers.. I was wondering that too.

If you have JN's length and accuracy, by all means swing the high cut.  Pea shooters like me are much better served by playing up the left... I found this out the hard way by playing what I thought was a perfect drive up the right edge of the fairway, then kicking into the deep rough and looking up the mountain to a wall of bunkers.

I agree there is always somewhere sensible to miss... part of what makes the course so enjoyable.  Thinking quickly, almost all greens are open in front... only on holes 3, 5, 7, and 11 would it be difficult to run one onto the green.

S.T. does a great job of rewarding accurately (and intelligently) placed tee shots.

Ron, if you've not been, maybe we can try to get a couple more GTA/BUF area GCAers and make a road trip next year...

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
A few supplementary pictures:


Bunkering behind the first green:




Approach to the third:





Tee shot on 7:





And a couple more looks at the bunkering on 14:




Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mark, I have not been and would love to make the roadie...I don't have a massive week-long trip planned for 2012, leaving room for a bunch of wee getaways. Looks to be about 3.5 away from Metro Buff, so perhaps we could play somewhere else along the way and the New York guys could make it an overnight or two...
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ian Andrew

Re: Kawartha G&CC
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 09:46:22 AM »
Mark,

It's Thompson, not me, I simply restored the course, please remove my name from the title.

I'll post with details on each hole very soon.

If anyone knows how to size photos - I'll fix the ones I posted last night.

Matt Bosela

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 09:48:18 AM »
Kawartha looks awesome.  I'd definitely be interested in taking that road trip to see it in person.

Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 10:01:59 AM »
Amazing ... not the first time I've been told to hustle up there. Definitely on my agenda for 2012.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 10:27:41 AM »
Thanks much, Mark.  I have never seen the course, and it made me sigh and say: "Ahh, southern Ontario golf".  We DO have a style around here (as much as the teir-two English courses do) -- and it's Thompson working up and over the land and through the trees.

Peter

Ian Andrew

Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 11:27:55 AM »
Quick History

The course was built for General Electric in 1931. The course was built nine holes at a time with the back nine being built before the front. My speculation is that Thompson had an excellent crew here since he barely had any other work at the time.

Being a company project this was the one with a good budget to work with. Stanley was flamboyant when it was corporate money and much less so with individual investors.

The core of the clubhouse is the original farm house. There is a better than average chance that the club will replace the clubhouse fairly soon.

The routing began on the 10th and went 2 through 9. The routing went out the back on the 1st and went 11 through 18. The routing is still intact, with minor tweaks which I will share.


My History with Kawartha

The vast majority of my work was removing 450 trees and a full bunker restoration. I did re-align one fairway and rebuild a green. I had some historical documentation to work with, but not as much as I had for other work.


The Architectural Evolution of Kawartha

(current)Hole 1 373 yds.

You are playing the original hole and original green

Hole 2 356 yds.

You are playing the original hole and original green. The fairway mounds and ones by the green were added by Moote “for definition.”

Hole 3 372 yds.

The old hole played from a tee on the right and up the flats along the right tree line straight into the green (300 yards). I played it before the changes were made and it was wide, simple and un-bunkered until the green. Moote relocated the fairway well left and up the hill to create a severe dogleg and add length with new tees. He re-graded the entire hole adding mounds and an upper plateau fairway. Any good player short cut the hole on the right and most high handicaps could not get around the corner being forced left by high fescue.

The club asked me to rebuild the fairway. I removed the centre trees and created the “s” shaped fairway with the carry bunkers that you play today. Long can go right and test the bunkers, short plays safely left. The green site was restored back to the original bunker configuration, but if my memory is correct, that is “not” a Thompson green. It is I the original location.

Hole 4 465 yds. (par 5)

The fairway bunker is new, there was never anything there. The green site was built in the 1950’s by the superintendent and is quite interesting due to the roll at the front. The hole would be an awesome par four that fits the flow of the round. There is talk about going to the promontory behind to lengthen the hole 50 yards. It is a nice green site.

Hole 5 412 yds.

The back tees were added by Moote and lengthened the hole 50 yards. He rebuilt the green at the time with numerous tiers. I was asked to rebuild the green for pin and put back the simple pitch green that it was before using my remembrance of it along with three key members input.

Hole 6 221 yds.
I always considered this Thompson’s moment where he said “you’ve had your fun and now its time to show you can play.” One of the complexities is the hole rises 20 feet from tee to green, but that’s nothing compared to the wicked right to left fall. You win matches here with a four!

Hole 7 547 yds.

The hole drops about 50 feet from tee to fairway and provides a nice panorama of the city. The green was always behind the creek which has undergone much restoration and naturalization in the last half dozen years. That is an original green site.

Hole 8 147 yds.

An odd spot in the routing since you walk up the hill to play back down. The bunkers were ovals when I inherited the work and I began here by completely rebuilding them to match a photo I have. The green has shrunken on the back right and will eventually be restored.

Hole 9 438 yds.

I added the back tees up the hill to add length. This has returned the landing to the crown and the long iron approach. Out of all the bunker work, that is my favourite, since there was almost nothing there when I began. This hole has been used as a finish for events in the past.

Hole 10 398 yds.

The green is a rebuild done in the 1950’s. The green was flattened and slightly expanded to the back. It remains the hardest approach since the green works against the flow.

Hole 11 487 yds. (par 5)

The green site was rebuilt by Moote and a pond was added in front. I had recommended the change back to creek and bunkers and through an engineering study done to address the massive floods they year before we were encouraged to restore the creek and take the pond out. I also took out a lot of Cedars around this green, to gain sun and playability and the number of players attacking the green in two doubled overnight.

Hole 12 208 yds.

The tees are slightly different, but otherwise it’s all there. A photo was used to put the bunkers back together.

Hole 13 376 yds.

This is my favourite hole to play. There are so many ways to play the tee shot and approach because each depends on a different use of slope in the green. The entire hole is original with the bunkering returned using a photo.

Hole 14 490 yds. (par 5)

The tees were pushed back and to the left to gain yardage by Moote. This created the weird 90 angle that never felt right. There is a plan to shift the tees back to the right to reduce the right angle. I added the bunker as a trade off for tree removal on the corner to allow for playability. The biggest trees were not removed during that process.

The green site restoration here was the highlight. The bunkering was very dramatic taking a simple green site and making it spectacular. It is one of my very favourite pieces of Thompson’s work.

Hole 15 219 yds.

This hole is the odd duck to me. It’s original, but has very few of the accents found at other green sites. Everything sits flat and the visibility is surprisingly limited by the use of land. It’s always felt like an afterthought holes shoved in the routing to get to 18.

Hole 16 434 yds.

The hole tumbles downhill right into the green which falls away from play. Not the prettiest hole on the course, but one that becomes far more appreciated by additional play. I love the narrowing in the green where the deeper you go the tighter the target. This is a common Thompson technique.

Hole 17 305 yds.

A great little shorty played along the entry road. You must find fairway and green on this original hole. The trick is to avoid the deep bunker on the front and the ribbon bunker in the back. The trees behind block a great view, but nobody has ever seen the benefit beyond me.

Hole 18 193 yds.

The finisher has the most dramatic bunkering. The hole is completely original except a back bunker is missing behind the green. A decision was made not to reintroduce this bunker due to traffic flow issues and a problem with a spring in that area.

I happen to think that Kawartha is an excellent example of his work.

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 12:05:14 PM »
Ian, thank you very much for information, I found it really interesting.  And I apologize for getting the attribution incorrect, and thanks for the correction... I figured better to over-attribute that to not attribute at all (though I think some would say this is just as bad).  I have changed it so that you are now credited only with the restoration -- I hope that is fine.

A few pictures to assist with Ian's descriptions:


The Architectural Evolution of Kawartha


Hole 3 372 yds.

The old hole played from a tee on the right and up the flats along the right tree line straight into the green (300 yards). I played it before the changes were made and it was wide, simple and un-bunkered until the green. Moote relocated the fairway well left and up the hill to create a severe dogleg and add length with new tees. He re-graded the entire hole adding mounds and an upper plateau fairway. Any good player short cut the hole on the right and most high handicaps could not get around the corner being forced left by high fescue.

The club asked me to rebuild the fairway. I removed the centre trees and created the “s” shaped fairway with the carry bunkers that you play today. Long can go right and test the bunkers, short plays safely left. The green site was restored back to the original bunker configuration, but if my memory is correct, that is “not” a Thompson green. It is I the original location.

The current back tee view on 3:






Hole 9 438 yds.

I added the back tees up the hill to add length. This has returned the landing to the crown and the long iron approach. Out of all the bunker work, that is my favourite, since there was almost nothing there when I began. This hole has been used as a finish for events in the past.

The view from the new back tee -- most players will now land into the upslope in the fairway leaving a long approach into the green




Some of the bunkering around the 9th green









Hole 10 398 yds.

The green is a rebuild done in the 1950’s. The green was flattened and slightly expanded to the back. It remains the hardest approach since the green works against the flow.

10 is a tough hole that moves around the corner to the left, with an approach that plays very uphill to a tiny green, guarded by bunkers left and long

Tee View





Approach




Small Green and Surrounds









Hole 12 208 yds.

The tees are slightly different, but otherwise it’s all there. A photo was used to put the bunkers back together.

Greenside bunkering on 12









Hole 15 219 yds.

This hole is the odd duck to me. It’s original, but has very few of the accents found at other green sites. Everything sits flat and the visibility is surprisingly limited by the use of land. It’s always felt like an afterthought holes shoved in the routing to get to 18.

Tee View





Hole 17 305 yds.

A great little shorty played along the entry road. You must find fairway and green on this original hole. The trick is to avoid the deep bunker on the front and the ribbon bunker in the back. The trees behind block a great view, but nobody has ever seen the benefit beyond me.

Tee View




Approach






The ribbon bunker behind the green




Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 12:20:25 PM »
Love the inverted Biarritz green at the second.

The bunkers are fantastic.  While dramatic, note the naturally shaggy edges in the photograph below.  Much superior to the pinking scheared / frilly look currently in vogue.



Ian, I'm curious if the slightly shaggy edges were by design or the result of subsequent natural weathering.  Either way, they don't scream "newly renovated."  Fantastic work.

Bogey

« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 12:23:47 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Ian Andrew

Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 01:28:52 PM »
I can't believe how much the edges have been lost over time.

Look at the greenside bunker on #14 (right) from my images and look at the shape and condition of them.

The inside edges in many cases have been flattened out over time.
That's five years of wear and tear.

Jeremy Rivando

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 03:45:03 PM »
The bunkering looks fantastic, the course looks to be in excellent condition.  I have to make it a must play in 2012.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2011, 01:47:01 AM »
Is this the first time we on GCA.com have talked about Kawartha?  I don't ever remember hearing or reading about it.  I think it looks to have a best new hidden gem, or cult following in the making!  Darned it I'll ever travel to that region and not try to play it!

Ian, if you could be perfectly Frank (without the singing  ::) ;) ;D )  would you have a go at more tree removal?

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2011, 08:03:20 AM »
When I played it with Ian a few years back I don't recall trees being a significant issue. At least not like some of the other courses where they are clearly a big factor on conditioning and playability.

Is this the first time we on GCA.com have talked about Kawartha?  I don't ever remember hearing or reading about it.  I think it looks to have a best new hidden gem, or cult following in the making!  Darned it I'll ever travel to that region and not try to play it!

Ian, if you could be perfectly Frank (without the singing  ::) ;) ;D )  would you have a go at more tree removal?


Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Kawartha G&CC (S. Thompson), Peterborough, Ontario - A Brief Review
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 11:01:02 PM »
Thompson courses seems so identifiable to me. This course looks like it would be a blast to play. Great job on restoring the bunkers, Ian.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 11:02:43 PM by matt kardash »
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back