[PCCraig]

Or has modern technology just shifted what we consider to be a "half par" hole?

[Niall C]

Pat

Its always shifted but then think of all the new half par holes that have been created due to increased length caused by technology.

Niall

[Phil McDade]

Shifted.

Isn't Pebble Beach's closing 18th hole a better hole strategically now? You never saw guys going at that green in two during the Clambake days; now, it's an interesting hole with choices.

[Steve Salmen]

Interesting.  I recall Dustin Johnson driving the 4th green at Pebble with a 3 iron.  Pretty sure that was not the intention.

[Mark McKeever]

I think it has shifted.  This can be seen when some of the older clubs change a short par 5 into a stout par 4.  Plus a lot of the classic short par 4's become half par holes if they creep into today's driver distances such as 10 at Merion.

Mark

[Ross Tuddenham]

I imagine it must just shift, but when it does are all the features of the “new” half par holes the most suitable for holes of that type.  Just wondering about the size and contour of the greens or if the player is offered much in the way of a challenge or strategy in the new driving zones?

Maybe holes that were not intended to be half par holes are inferior to those that were designed for that purpose.  Or is it the other way around?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Its just shifted.

[Mike_Cocking]

Its interesting that a few holes on the sandbelt are possibly more interesting now because more people are considering going for the green.  Geoff (Ogilvy) feels this way about 10 West (Royal Melbourne) and its the same at Victoria's 15th.  Miss either and you're going to make a double but in the last few years its noticeable how many more are going for the green than in the persimmon days where few could.  Both are under 330 yards.

[Bill_McBride]

Interesting.  I recall Dustin Johnson driving the 4th green at Pebble with a 3 iron.  Pretty sure that was not the intention.

That's what's so much fun about half-par holes.   He blew the Open Sunday on 3 and 4, two holes you would think would be easy birdies for a guy with his length!

[Mark Johnson]

Actually, i think its created more half par holes and made some more classic courses more interesting.

Take a course like Northland Country Club, which one very short par 4 (#4 I think) and several short par 5s.

With the latst technology, suddely there are 3 or 4 half-pars,  one more if you count the nasty 245 yard par-3 which usually plays into the wind.

What i think the real question is though, is are you ok with lots more par 70 or par 69 courses?

[Mike_Clayton]

Mike Cocking is right about quite a few of the really interesting short 4s on the sandbelt. Others include 3 at Kingston Heath, 13 North at Peninsula and 4 at Woodlands. They are more dangerous now more players are driving at the greens.
At the Australian Masters a couple of weeks ago the 260 yard par four opening hole at Victoria averaged almost exactly 3.5 and it was really interesting watching the shots - tee shots as well and pitches,chips and bunker shots.
It was always easily reached but a more interesting green has made for more interesting golf.

[JNC Lyon]

No!

I don't care what Dustin Johnson hits on the 4th at Pebble.  He represents a very, very, VERY small percentage of the golfing population.  A 450-yard par four is still a half-par hole for most people (including some scratch golfers).

[Michael Whitaker]

The technology has caused architects to create many more of what are effectively 1/2 par holes for the the average golfer. How many golfers do you think have a realistic chance of hitting a 430, 440, 450, 460 or 470 yard par 4 in two? Holes of that length are almost always a par 4.5 for the average golfer (if not a par 5). Unfortunately, courses today have more and more par-4 holes well in excess of 400 yards.

I remember when a 420 yard hole was considered longish... no more. The 8% of golfers with a single digit handicap can usually play those holes with a driver-8 iron, while the other 92% of us usually require a driver-4 iron. When par four holes require the average guy to hit two "woods" then it is definitely a 4.5 (or better) hole.

Also, don't forget all of the +200 yard par 3 holes that are omnipresent on today's courses. I played a course recently that had three par 3 holes well over 200 yards each from the "member's" tee. This might be fun for a skilled golfer, but it's just a slog for the average guy.

[Ronald Montesano]

no

[Jeff Spittel]

I know this doesn't apply to all areas of the world, but the 12 month season in Texas offers plenty of half par opportunities depending upon the time of year and weather conditions. Technology doesn't stand a chance when it's chilly, wet and/or the wind is howling.   

[Carl Rogers]

Another thread primarily focussed on the 0.0001% of the golfers.  For most us, the half-par hole never has or never will exist.  How many holes have  middle tees are there that are 220 yards?  .... par being what ever you want to call it.

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