[Anthony Gray]

  What have been trend setters?

  Anthony

[Joel_Stewart]

In this day and age, the properities at Bandon.

I say this even though it's a modern facility.  It's kind of like the people who think Lady Gaga is a better singer then Ella Fitzgerald.  People tend to forget the classics.  How many college golf teams have played much less know about NGLA?  Most have been to Bandon.

[Brad Isaacs]

At the beginning...... St Andrews!

[Ronald Montesano]

Often, the worst ones...they teach us what to avoid, versus what to include.

[Carl Rogers]

Another shameless plug for Riverfront in Suffolk, VA.  I think many of you would find it to be an interesting ecletic composite of many GCA global themes.

[Tim Nugent]

Often, the worst ones...they teach us what to avoid, versus what to include.

Ronald, this is insiteful.  Dad used to have the newby Jr Assoc. always work on the remodels 1st precisely for this reason.  His logic was, "figure out why this hole doesn't work, why the members or super hates it."  In my early days, i would come up with designs I thought were cool only to be told I tried that at XYZ - it didn't work because..."  or "We had to spend alot of money fixing that at ABC because..."  I think most seasoned architects will tell you that what they are today is the sum of their past experiences, good + bad.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

My eyes were first opened to great architecture at High Pointe...I grew up on public courses in the northern suburbs of Detroit.  While the the privates in the area (Oakland Hills, Franklin Hills, Indianwood Old, etc.) are all very good - I wasn't able to see them - and the publics my dad took me to don't come up for discussion on this board very often and would suspect most fall into the bottom quartile on the Doak Scale.

  I was fortunate to caddy at Country Club of Detroit and loved it, but for me the turning point was a trip up to Traverse City where in one trip I played both the Bear (Nicklaus) and High Pointe - talk about an education in contrasts.  I was pretty young at the time and didn't know a tremendous amount about architecture, but knew I had to see High Pointe.  I was probably equally excited to see both course, but can distinctly remember finishing #18 the Bear and thinking "Why?" and I can remember finishing #4 at High Pointe and saying "Wow."

To me, within 10 miles, you had everything right about course design/architecture and everything wrong.  Unfortunately, the wrong course (in my mind) survived the economic downturn...

[Alex Lagowitz]

In this day and age, the properities at Bandon.

I say this even though it's a modern facility.  It's kind of like the people who think Lady Gaga is a better singer then Ella Fitzgerald.  People tend to forget the classics.  How many college golf teams have played much less know about NGLA?  Most have been to Bandon.

I think this is a very interesting quote.
Myself being a college golfer, I often chat with teammates and other players about courses etc.

Supporting Joel's claims, it seems to me that their is a liking for Fazio/Dye in college golf world and a lack of understanding for the classics.
Many college golfers of today are avid golf TV watchers, and they see Doral, TPC Sawgrass and see these long, penal, exacting golf courses. 
My friend thinks a good golf course is penal, tough, and tree lined...he is a scratch golfer.

About NGLA, unless your from the Metro/New England area, most college golfers don't know it.  And that goes for most of the hidden classics.  Im happy that the President's Cup was played at Royal Melbourne so this crowd could see what a really great course looks like.

It doesn't need to be tight; width creates strategy.
It doesn't need to be tree lined and straight forward; depth of field can be challenged, wind becomes a huge factor, and decisions must be made.
It doesn't need to be tough; birdies can be quickly followed by doubles if you get ahead of yourself.  Every hole is not a demanding par.

Overall, I know this is a little off topic, but great architecture is needed teach my stubborn generation the dynamics of GCA. 

[JMEvensky]

 It's kind of like the people who think Lady Gaga is a better singer then Ella Fitzgerald. 

 Automatic fail--no such person could possibly exist.

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