[Lou Cutolo]

I don’t think that is the case in the golf industry. If clubs employees (Pro, Manager or Super) are involved with their association it helps to establish him or her as a leader in the local golf community. This type of leadership can only shine a positive light on the club.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I don’t think that is the case in the golf industry. If clubs employees (Pro, Manager or Super) are involved with their association it helps to establish him or her as a leader in the local golf community. This type of leadership can only shine a positive light on the club.

You don't? Okay, I tend to disagree as I see things first hand. Cost is not the sole reason these conference and seminars have less in attended. You can be just as strong, if not a better leader. Supts have more responsibility and more pressure. If you look at the past presidents of the GCSAA and local chapters, some of no longer with their club that they shed "positive light on." why are they no longer there? Why should they pay a Supt a salary when he's gone 50-100 days a year? Especially if the condition of the course remains as is.

[Kalen Braley]

I don’t think that is the case in the golf industry. If clubs employees (Pro, Manager or Super) are involved with their association it helps to establish him or her as a leader in the local golf community. This type of leadership can only shine a positive light on the club.

You don't? Okay, I tend to disagree as I see things first hand. Cost is not the sole reason these conference and seminars have less in attended. You can be just as strong, if not a better leader. Supts have more responsibility and more pressure. If you look at the past presidents of the GCSAA and local chapters, some of no longer with their club that they shed "positive light on." why are they no longer there? Why should they pay a Supt a salary when he's gone 50-100 days a year? Especially if the condition of the course remains as is.

Seems like same can be said about most CEOs in America today though...and they seem to be making pretty nice salaries!! 

[JMEvensky]

I don’t think that is the case in the golf industry. If clubs employees (Pro, Manager or Super) are involved with their association it helps to establish him or her as a leader in the local golf community. This type of leadership can only shine a positive light on the club.

You don't? Okay, I tend to disagree as I see things first hand. Cost is not the sole reason these conference and seminars have less in attended. You can be just as strong, if not a better leader. Supts have more responsibility and more pressure. If you look at the past presidents of the GCSAA and local chapters, some of no longer with their club that they shed "positive light on." why are they no longer there? Why should they pay a Supt a salary when he's gone 50-100 days a year? Especially if the condition of the course remains as is.

I'll side with Anthony.IMO,the overwhelming majority of members see no value added in having their Super recognized as a local/national leader.

I'd put this in the same category as having a Head Pro who's a good player--nobody cares anymore.

Neither is a good development.

[Lou Cutolo]

Tony,
We will have to agree to disagree on this subject. My experience has been that supers who have been involved do benefit.
Lou

[Steve Okula]

In the past ten years or so, a president of the GCSAA lost his job in mid-term of the office. This tends to support the argument that at least some clubs don't see the value of national organizational leadership.

On the other hand, if no one bothered, there would be no superintendents organizations at all, and I do believe that would be a loss to the golfing industry. The local and national groups act as great clearing houses to share information, and I have no doubt course conditions overall have improved as a result.

Me, I scarcely bother to attend a meeting and I have never sought or held office. But I am a member of three different GCS organizations, and I participate/communicate daily on-line.

[Kalen Braley]

Steve,

Thanks for continuing to offer input on this thread.

How much goes goes on in terms of supers who attempt to keep something secret in hopes of having leg up on the competition (ie trade secret) or potentially even patenting a process or way of doing something?

Or is this pretty much non-existent?

Thanks

[Mike_Young]

I don’t think that is the case in the golf industry. If clubs employees (Pro, Manager or Super) are involved with their association it helps to establish him or her as a leader in the local golf community. This type of leadership can only shine a positive light on the club.

Lou,
Are you a supt or are you in the golf industry?  I disagree with the above.
How many national GCSAA presidents do you know that have been fired or lost their jobs after serving?
Actually I strongly disagree.  Associations have done more to create the mess we have in golf today than any single thing.  And don't think for one moment they are there for the members.  The object is to present the association as if that were the case.  IN THE GOLF INDUSTRY the problem is there is no certificate or license needed for anything other than spraying chemicals.  You can design a course, build a course, maintain a course , operate a course and give lessons at a course with no certification whatsover.  BUT most of the associations and Guilds, Societies or whatever you wish to call them would like to have their specialties licensed just like medicine or , law or architecture BUT the problem is : there is nothing there to license and the Associations spend all of their time trying to convince clubs and boards and developers that they bring something to the table.  But in actuality I would say the GCSAA offers more in the way of eduction that any of the others by a long shot. 
So when you see that guy with ten ribbons on his jacket walking around the show with the alligator foot-joys and expecting every Toro or John Deere salesman to say hello; you know two things: he is an employee and somebody somewhere is maintaining a course like his for much less than he can.
Cheers....

[Melvyn Morrow]

The dog’s bollocks of a golf course  - nothing more nothing less.

It’s that simple in the end, pity many architects did not notice what the ultimate customer or end user actually wants, but then perhaps that explains why players are leaving the game in such large numbers each year.

Melvyn

[Lou Cutolo]

Mike
I was golf professional for 8 years, and was reinstated as an amateur and now work for the Metropolitan Golf Association in New York for the past 10 years.
Lou

[Mike_Young]

Lou,
You ever run into Bill Van Orman...I think he still works in the MGA. 

[Lou Cutolo]

Billy is a great guy and curently working at Meadow Brook on Long Island.

[Mike_Young]

Billy is a great guy and curently working at Meadow Brook on Long Island.

I thought he was but wasn't sure.  He family lives down here and he comes home each winter.  Say hello from me if you see him...

[Lou Cutolo]

Will do Mike, dont know if he is still up here.

[Neil White]

All,

Came across this on the USGA Green Section Record

http://turf.lib.msu.edu/gsr/article/brame-defining-11-4-11.pdf

Interesting reading.

Neil.

[JMEvensky]

All,

Came across this on the USGA Green Section Record

http://turf.lib.msu.edu/gsr/article/brame-defining-11-4-11.pdf

Interesting reading.

Neil.

Thanks for posting this.

Mike Young is really going to hate # 10.

[Bill McKinley]

All,

Came across this on the USGA Green Section Record

http://turf.lib.msu.edu/gsr/article/brame-defining-11-4-11.pdf

Interesting reading.

Neil.

Neil,

Great stuff!  Thanks for posting!

[Mike_Young]

All,

Came across this on the USGA Green Section Record

http://turf.lib.msu.edu/gsr/article/brame-defining-11-4-11.pdf

Interesting reading.

Neil.

Thanks for posting this.

Mike Young is really going to hate # 10.

JM,
Why would I hate such?  I think that's fine.  I now plenty of guys that do SOME of that BUT remember you ain't gonna find a USGA publication saying they should not do such....the real truth is a lotof the really good supts call BS on the USGA in a lot of cases but they can't say that where I can...

[Don_Mahaffey]

That's a fair article, but remember that's more theory then reality in that its the ideal Superintendent in the ideal job.

Personnel manager, communicator, professional, agronomist, resource manager,...its not like any of that is news, you better be good at all of that just to hang on to your job nowadays.

I'd say more rare is the guy who has all of the above and, is knowledgeable and experienced, a learner, and seeks council. Those are traits that come more with some years on the job, and being secure enough to ask for help. Its hard to get to that point when asking for help is viewed as a weakness or experience is equated with being "old".  

Add in being a golfer, and more importantly an affection for the game and those who play it and you have someone special on your hands.

After all that, if your fortunate to have a situation where you have the time, and are encouraged, to be a giver and your a very lucky superintendent.

[Steve Curry]

...  Furthermore, in this day and age, I doubt anyone wants to risk getting fired.

I've heard that sentiment a lot lately. As in, your lucky to just have a job, better do it my way and be lucky you have a paycheck.
IMO, that attitude, expressing that belief to your employees is counter productive to doing great work, no matter the profession. Does the entire US business world really want a bunch of kiss asses in key positions? Since when was that good business, especially in tough times?

This thread is so screwed up on so many different levels. I guess its better to be a good politician then green keeper. We all knew that's where we've been headed the last few years, and while I agree its always best to act like a gentleman, when the same dumb ass member asks you the same rhetorical question time after time hoping to get a rise out of you, at some point I think its OK to just walk away. I kept hoping someone would simply write as answer like, "give me great golfing conditions as often as possible." John K came the closest, most of the rest of you seem to be more interesting in making sure your super knows who the boss is. Trust me, he knows. But being a gentleman, like loyalty, works best when its a two way street. 

Thanks Don, sums it up for me.

Steve

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