[John Kavanaugh]

And the club should support the super playing the course.

Ten years ago, in my first year as super at my present course, I played eighteen holes on a weekday with the GM at his request to discuss work. I put this down in my monthly schedule as a day worked.

I received written notice from the club president that this would count as a vacation day, as I was, as he put it, “taking advantage of the club facilities.”

I all but stopped playing my own course. I’m sometimes out there working for thirty days straight, and when I do have a little free time, I need a change of scene. Besides that, I have a family with small children, and I’m not giving up my limited time with them to go back out and play the same course I know like the back of my hand.  It’s much more interesting to go play someone else’s course, where I might learn something useful.

Playing the course is most useful in the first two or three years of a super’s tenure. After ten years, there are no surprises. On the odd times I do play the course, it plays exactly as I expected from looking at it. Club members’ comments become equally predictable.

Now, if the management came to me and said, “We want you to play at least once a week, but it will count as time worked.” Then I would have no problem with that.

Steve,

I included your entire quote above.  It is obvious to me that you were treated poorly ten years ago and still hold feelings towards that treatment.  If you are not feeling sorry for yourself that you can not play golf as part of your job, then for what exactly are you still holding a grudge ten years after?  I mean really, surely you must be on salary by now.  I agree that this situation was poorly handled from the start and you have now fueled the flames by posting on the internet a painting of a buffoon boss. 

Look at it this way, if you are an hourly worker then what is wrong with being off the clock when you play golf at your leisure?  If playing is a requirement, you get paid.  If you think so little of the course or your job that you insist on getting paid to play golf, and have fun doing it, then give the game up entirely for the sake of your future employment.  I'm sorry, but considering this is a ten year old issue, your post came off to me as a spiteful little child.  I like you so I gave you the benefit of the doubt when saying that you felt sorry for yourself.

Employers can tolerate pity but must stomp out spite.

[Steve Okula]

And the club should support the super playing the course.

Ten years ago, in my first year as super at my present course, I played eighteen holes on a weekday with the GM at his request to discuss work. I put this down in my monthly schedule as a day worked.

I received written notice from the club president that this would count as a vacation day, as I was, as he put it, “taking advantage of the club facilities.”

I all but stopped playing my own course. I’m sometimes out there working for thirty days straight, and when I do have a little free time, I need a change of scene. Besides that, I have a family with small children, and I’m not giving up my limited time with them to go back out and play the same course I know like the back of my hand.  It’s much more interesting to go play someone else’s course, where I might learn something useful.

Playing the course is most useful in the first two or three years of a super’s tenure. After ten years, there are no surprises. On the odd times I do play the course, it plays exactly as I expected from looking at it. Club members’ comments become equally predictable.

Now, if the management came to me and said, “We want you to play at least once a week, but it will count as time worked.” Then I would have no problem with that.

Steve,

I included your entire quote above.  It is obvious to me that you were treated poorly ten years ago and still hold feelings towards that treatment.  If you are not feeling sorry for yourself that you can not play golf as part of your job, then for what exactly are you still holding a grudge ten years after?  I mean really, surely you must be on salary by now.  I agree that this situation was poorly handled from the start and you have now fueled the flames by posting on the internet a painting of a buffoon boss. 

Look at it this way, if you are an hourly worker then what is wrong with being off the clock when you play golf at your leisure?  If playing is a requirement, you get paid.  If you think so little of the course or your job that you insist on getting paid to play golf, and have fun doing it, then give the game up entirely for the sake of your future employment.  I'm sorry, but considering this is a ten year old issue, your post came off to me as a spiteful little child.  I like you so I gave you the benefit of the doubt when saying that you felt sorry for yourself.

Employers can tolerate pity but must stomp out spite.

Well, John, all I can say is that I like you, too.

[RDecker]

Simple truth:  No one at my club spends more time there than I do, no one knows more about agronomy, no one knows more about the history, architecture and daily needs of my club yet I am at the mercy of the whims of a board that includes a carpenter, a toll taker, a plumber
two different millwrights, a legal secretary and a uniform salesman.  I'm not whining but that decision making hierarchy does leave the super at a bit of a disadvantage.  Course conditions, make up of soil and turf and abilities and amount of play should dictate not the ideas of a small group of individuals usually unqualified to do so.

[John Kavanaugh]

2 down 98 to go.

[jeffwarne]

Simple truth:  No one at my club spends more time there than I do, no one knows more about agronomy, no one knows more about the history, architecture and daily needs of my club yet I am at the mercy of the whims of a board that includes a carpenter, a toll taker, a plumber
two different millwrights, a legal secretary and a uniform salesman.  I'm not whining but that decision making hierarchy does leave the super at a bit of a disadvantage.  Course conditions, make up of soil and turf and abilities and amount of play should dictate not the ideas of a small group of individuals usually unqualified to do so.

Just be glad you don't have a paving guy...

[Chris Johnston]

Paving guys are the best!

[RDecker]

very true jeff... not disparaging my board, they're great people and even if they were doctors, lawyers... the point is the Golf course maintenance profession is unique in that it is an industry where the professionals who perform the tasks are being guided to some degree by people who know very little about the job that needs to be done.

[Bill Brightly]

Simple truth:  No one at my club spends more time there than I do, no one knows more about agronomy, no one knows more about the history, architecture and daily needs of my club yet I am at the mercy of the whims of a board that includes a carpenter, a toll taker, a plumber
two different millwrights, a legal secretary and a uniform salesman.  I'm not whining but that decision making hierarchy does leave the super at a bit of a disadvantage.  Course conditions, make up of soil and turf and abilities and amount of play should dictate not the ideas of a small group of individuals usually unqualified to do so.

RD,

I'm not sure the point of your post. Every superintendent works for a board full of people who are not experts in your field. They hired you because of your skills. They are paying you to spend all that time there. (Kudos for learning the history.) To say you are at the "mercy of the whims" of your board sounds pretty weak, if you don't mind me saying. Confidently explaining your decisions, the need of your course, your budget needs, etc. and effectively defending your position is a HUGE part of the job. So is educating the people who you are working for. Excellent superintendents help guide their boards towards the right decisions.

[Craig Sweet]

Bill, what is the "the right decision"?  From what I see sometimes it's what is right for the turf, sometimes it's what's right politically and has nothing to do with what's right for the turf.....the club where I work changes its mind continually about how some things should be done, regardless of who the super is...one day, its make the course longer, the next day, its make it shorter...or put a new bunker here one day, and make that new bunker go away the next. Very difficult working conditions for some...

[Bill Brightly]

Bill, what is the "the right decision"?  From what I see sometimes it's what is right for the turf, sometimes it's what's right politically and has nothing to do with what's right for the turf.....the club where I work changes its mind continually about how some things should be done, regardless of who the super is...one day, its make the course longer, the next day, its make it shorter...or put a new bunker here one day, and make that new bunker go away the next. Very difficult working conditions for some...

Sounds like a club I wouldn't want to work for, or be a member of... But if I was a member, I'd look to be part of the board and stop all the nonsense. At my club we put it in the by-laws that boards (or chairmen...) can't make changes to the course w/o an architect's plans and a membership vote.

[John Kavanaugh]

very true jeff... not disparaging my board, they're great people and even if they were doctors, lawyers... the point is the Golf course maintenance profession is unique in that it is an industry where the professionals who perform the tasks are being guided to some degree by people who know very little about the job that needs to be done.

R,

I serve on a bank board and can't tell the difference between a buffalo head nickel and a Susan B. Anthony dollar. It is not the task of a board to understand the minutia of your job. Hell, in your case those fine people most likely serve for free.

Tick tock, tick tock, can a brother get a count down!?!

[SL_Solow]

Two points;  First, most of us work for people who are not expert in what we do.  They are called customers or clients.  part  of our job is to convince them of our expertise so that they listen to us and allow us to guide them to correct decisons.  That said, my second point is that Superintendents have a particular problem because most members are highly successful and used to giving directions.  additionally, for some unknown reason, most golfers believe that growing grass isn't very hard (you just throw out some seed and fertilizer) and all of them are experts in architecture and set up.  That is why I said in my first post the issue is creating the appropriate approach at the Board and Green Committee level.  At our seminars we recommend that the Committee establish budgets, create expected maintenance standards which are achievable in light of the budget, assist in communication with the members and then keep the members out of the Superintendent's hair.  As to architectural issues, Bill's suggestion about the use of a consulting architect is an excellent approach.

[Greg Tallman]

The fact is, the large majority of the membership wants green, pretty grass and the fast and firm lovers that are the majority on this site are the minority at their home clubs.

So, does the progressive Supt. pay attention to his customers or to the inteligentsia on this site?

Or maybe he hedges and turns the sprinklers down a bit at a time, "educating" (and I hate the arrogance this word connotes) his players methodically by demonstrating the improved playing conditions which result from firmer turf?

I think we are all programmed to like green.  Drought conditions accompanied by watering restrictions may be temporary blessings in this regard, but I doubt that it will change our perspective short of seeing dry, healthy turf which makes the game more fun.  I would add that I'd want my superintendent to firm-up the course including the green surrounds while still maintaining greens that are at least receptive to well struck shots.

If you have a good super you need to appreciate him and create an enviroment where he feels secure enough that if there are set backs, he won´t be out the door. Most learn lfrom mistakes and growing turf properly means letting it dry out to the point where some areas may become less visually attractive temporarly. When trying to take turf to this condition on a home lawn is one thing and another with 160 acre home lawn. Conditons change rapidily, when temperature rise and the wind picks up its a whole different ball game, you just don´t react and turn on one sprinkler, there are sometimes 1500 to turn on. So once again, the clubs administration needs to understand that deep infequent watering will sometimes get away from ideal presentation conditions and the course will suffer some visual damage from time to time. Dealing with mother nature and such a large home lawn we need to accept that things will go wrong and all we expect is that the individual learns and grows from these set back and administration will still give the individual the support he needs in the future.

Wah, wah, wah...we have our own jobs.  No excuses, no hugs. Thrill me, don't educate me.

Beyond the point of being educated are we John? Seems to me a good super has a healthy dose of educating required of he/she given the those holding his fate in their hands typically know virtually nothing about the complexity of issues that affect playing conditions, grass color... etc.

[Steve Okula]

2 down 98 to go.

I'm glad you're not on my committee.

[Dieter Jones]

I want him to learn how to turn the sprinklers OFF

[Mike_Young]

SL,
If you have more info re your seminars on boards I would enjoy reading it.


IMHO:
Committees and boards made up of unpaid members such as country club boards are not very efficient and have no reason to be.  My main question is why anyone that has the business experience to contribute would wish to be on these types of boards.  AND I'm not sure this form of operating courses can go much longer since it is extremely inefficient cost wise compared to clubs operated by owners.  50 years ago it may have worked when golf was not considered a business but today it is often just egos wanting be in a position to push what they want on a club.
AND as for the supts( and you supts know the type) I agree it's hard to work for a board and not a very secure job in many cases but my issue with the supt/board/club manager relationship is when a supt figures they really don't know and he tries to become a manipulator.  Supts: you can name everyone of these guys that's in your chapter    
  

[RDecker]

I'm not asking this group of Armchair Quarterbacks to read a defense, however if say your super spends 10 months going over the need to replace a certain piece of equipment and the board still doesn't feel the need to put it to a vote than my point seems to be valid.  This is just one example but there are certainly situations where a super fails to adequately communicate, in my case I know this isn't the case.

[Bill Brightly]

SL,


IMHO:
Committees and boards made up of unpaid members such as country club boards are not very efficient and have no reason to be.  My main question is why anyone that has the business experience to contribute would wish to be on these types of boards.  AND I'm not sure this form of operating courses can go much longer since it is extremely inefficient cost wise compared to clubs operated by owners.  50 years ago it may have worked when golf was not considered a business but today it is often just egos wanting be in a position to push what they want on a club.
AND as for the supts( and you supts know the type) I agree it's hard to work for a board and not a very secure job in many cases but my issue with the supt/board/club manager relationship is when a supt figures they really don't know and he tries to become a manipulator.  Supts: you can name everyone of these guys that's in your chapter    
  

Mike, I could not disagree with you more. My guess is that you have never worked with a good country club board, but I have. To your "main question" the answer is successful business people volunteer to serve on boards because:

1) We own the club, including the golf course, and want to make sure it is properly run and maintained.
2) We care deeply about our club, have many long-time friends there, and we owe an obligation to donate our time (if we have spare time), to ensure the long term health of the club
3) Presumably, we were nominated to serve because we have some business/leadership skills that will translate well to board service.

We all have egos, but good board members put them aside and perform the role the were elected to perform. There is a great adage that I learned while serving on a school board: board members don't run the school, they make sure it is run well. That works perfectly well for country club boards and the committee chair assignments, including Grounds, Dining, Finance, etc.  Good boards hire expert superintendents, chefs, controllers, etc., give them broad directives, sensible budgets, and then monitor their performance.

I'm sure you can point to boards that micro managed but there are far more good boards, IMHO. Remember, good clubs have a membership full of successful people who are capable of reigning in meddling, ego-driven boards or chairmen.

[Mike_Young]

Bill,
We are going to have to agree to disagree here.  I have worked with a few country club boards and I have served on boards (ex: Community foundation) and I have asked myself why?  I am a member of a couple of clubs w boards and it's a joke and a free meal.( in my opinion)
As for the opinion:  "
I'm sure you can point to boards that micro managed but there are far more good boards, IMHO. Remember, good clubs have a membership full of successful people who are capable of reigning in meddling, ego-driven boards or chairmen."  With all respect I think the really good clubs I have seen don't have boards....
Cheers

[John Kavanaugh]

Wah, wah, wah...we have our own jobs.  No excuses, no hugs. Thrill me, don't educate me.

Beyond the point of being educated are we John? Seems to me a good super has a healthy dose of educating required of he/she given the those holding his fate in their hands typically know virtually nothing about the complexity of issues that affect playing conditions, grass color... etc.

Greg,

To educate someone requires an assumption of stupidity, to thrill someone requires the assumption that you can trust an individual to accept the risk that goes with any reward.  Who would you want to be in a relationship with, someone who thinks you are stupid or someone who trusts you?

One of the things I find most interesting about the super profession is how they love to claim playing the weather is so unpredictable and difficult.  As a contractor I have done this very thing my entire life and can't even tell you how much easier it has gotten over the last 20 years.  It is an absolutely thrilling science/art that can so easily be worked in your favor if you do not let it control you.

The Weather Channel started in 1982 and is now obsolete.  Before that my Dad would go to the local diner at 3 in the morning and talk to the various truckers and farmers who would stop by to form an opinion on the upcoming days events.  Now I lay in bed and view an app on my iPad between checking in on GCA.  All that has happened between are the most thrilling and rewarding aspects of my professional life.

The weather is like a dog, it can smell fear and will attack those who express it. 

[Joe Leenheer]

One of my favorite quotes came while eavesdropping on a conversation between our greens chairman and the super.

Super says something along the lines as it's been a tough (weather) year or he's frustrated with some comments/complaints.  Greens Chairman:  "If it were easy, then everyone would be doing it."  Can be applied to pretty much anything worth doing but especially to pleasing customers/members, obtaining perfect turf grass conditions, and making 3 foot putts.

[Jud_T]

I think I'm glad both of my clubs have been benevolent dictatorships...

[Craig Sweet]

Kavanaugh...your statement regarding Supers. and the weather is stupid.  In your biz if it turns cold and snows on May 1st you might not work and you have some juggling of the schedule to do....for the Super his turf might die. HUGE difference. Neither you nor the Super has any control over the weather, but the outcomes are totally different

In my 10 years as a green keeper, and my 10 years in the nursery business, the weather, what the weather is doing, will do, and might do, drives 90% of the decisions I have to make about the product I am selling....weather its cold hardy plants or the condition of the golf course. I can't control the weather, I can only react. If you think there's some magic formula to guarantee success you are wrong. You do the best you can with the knowledge you have and keep your fingers crossed.

[Steve Okula]

The weather has been one of the most thrilling and rewarding aspects of my career.

[John Kavanaugh]

If I dig a hole in the road too soon before a weather event people die.

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