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Jim Colton

Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #325 on: March 07, 2012, 04:33:46 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 10:24:52 AM by Jim Colton »
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Jim Colton

Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #326 on: March 07, 2012, 04:41:21 PM »
Quote from: PCraig on March 07, 2012, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: Tyler Kearns on March 07, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

So the "secured lender" (according to http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/trouble-at-ballyneal-whats-the.html) buys a property out of foreclosure, of which he foreclosed on himself? What am I missing?

Pat,

Not sure what you were missing...it all went down as planned and as outlined in the article you linked to.

"Curlander's plan is to buy the property out of foreclosure and keep the club running...and will not seek help, guidance or advice fro
 Rupert."
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #327 on: March 07, 2012, 04:44:42 PM »
Jim,

For us non-fiance gurus, it would appear he bought the property from himself...which seems odd.

I'm guessing there are legalities and otherwise hoops he had to jump thru to accomplish this, but it would seem the lender just took ownership of the asset and wrote off the loss.....

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SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #328 on: March 07, 2012, 04:48:40 PM »
Correct.  The foreclosure sale is the final step of the legal process by which the secured lender takes ownership of the asset. 
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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #329 on: March 07, 2012, 04:50:13 PM »
Quote from: Jim Colton on March 07, 2012, 04:41:21 PM
Quote from: PCraig on March 07, 2012, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: Tyler Kearns on March 07, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

So the "secured lender" (according to http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/trouble-at-ballyneal-whats-the.html) buys a property out of foreclosure, of which he foreclosed on himself? What am I missing?

Pat,

Not sure what you were missing...it all went down as planned and as outlined in the article you linked to.

"Curlander's plan is to buy the property out of foreclosure and keep the club running...and will not seek help, guidance or advice fro
 Rupert."

Jim,

From the article:
Quote
Its sole secured lender, owed $1.7 million, filed for foreclosure in November. The course will go to auction on March 7.
 
In an interesting twist, that secured lender is Colorado computer executive John C. Curlander, brother-in-law to Rupert O’Neal.

Why would a sole lender have to purchase a property that it already foreclosed on? So John C. lends his brother in law ~$1.7MM, forecloses on the note, then turns up at the court house and purchases the property for $2.xMM? So is he effectively just paying the difference of what is already owed him, and the purchase price?

I'm hardly an expert in foreclosures (thankfully), just trying to understand the transaction.
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H.P.S.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #330 on: March 07, 2012, 04:52:18 PM »
Quote from: SBusch on March 07, 2012, 04:48:40 PM
Correct.  The foreclosure sale is the final step of the legal process by which the secured lender takes ownership of the asset. 

But it makes me wonder why it would go to auction then?  If he was the secured lender, wouldn't he have rights to it and be able to avoid the dog and pony show of showing up with a check written to himself?  Perhaps it was a contractual thing that it must go to auction instead of going into direct receivership of the lender.

Anyway you slice it, feel bad for Rupert, but glad to hear it will remain open....
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Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #331 on: March 07, 2012, 05:01:13 PM »
He didn't own the property.  He owned the secured debt.  There's a difference.

Think of this like a corporate bankruptcy.  When a company files for bankruptcy, all of the secured and unsecured creditors file and indicate how much they are owed.  The court may choose to liquidate the company assets (the auction sale) to raise money to pay off the creditors.  The liquidation proceeds are used to pay off certain costs of the bankruptcy process and to pay off the secured creditors.  If there's anything left over, then the unsecured creditors may get some money.  In this case, with one bidder at the auction, the amount that needed to be bid in order to completely wipe out any existing liens was the amount of the secured debt and the costs.

That's the simple version, things get a bit more complex when there are preference issues, automatic liens, liens on different types of assets, etc.
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #332 on: March 07, 2012, 05:10:33 PM »
Got it, thanks Sven.
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H.P.S.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #333 on: March 07, 2012, 05:14:49 PM »
The key to the whole issue is that in Colorado property is held in trust until all of the underlying debt is paid.  The mortgage document would have had a power of sale clause that allows the trustee to sell the property at auction (upon meeting all notice requirements) to satisfy any unpaid debt.  Its basically a mechanism to clear the title.

Here's a bit more information on foreclosures (very general):  http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-management/foreclosure1.htm

There are two states that provide for strict foreclosure, essentially an automatic transfer to the lender without having to go through the auction process.

Its a timely topic these days.    

« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:21:20 PM by Sven Nilsen »
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #334 on: March 07, 2012, 05:24:17 PM »
I assume this is good news for the staff at Ballyneal. I've only been there once but the place was in great condition and I would think it wise to keep the green's staff in place.

Wonder what this means for the 2nd course?
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #335 on: March 07, 2012, 05:28:09 PM »
Sven,

Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense now.  I always figured, the person who owns the debt is the "real" owner...  ;)
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Brandon Urban

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #336 on: March 07, 2012, 05:30:39 PM »
It was pretty neat to see pictures, via Dave Hensley on twitter, of the irrigation systems getting primed this past week. I assumed from some of this that everything would work out, but I guess in situations like this you never know.

Just happy that no one will have to watch yucca take over the fairways and greens anytime soon.
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181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #337 on: March 07, 2012, 05:40:44 PM »
Between this and the Olympics news, this has got to be the biggest news day in the past few years of GCA...
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #338 on: March 07, 2012, 05:42:49 PM »
The secured lender always gets the option to credit bid the amount of the outstanding indebtedness, plus fees, costs, etc, at the sale.  They get this right because technically, they've already spent it.   Often times, when there is an arranged buyer, the secured lender will underbid to the appraised value (assuming the appraised value is less than the indebetedness) and allow the arranged buyer to purchase at sale (helps with tax issues)....and if there's a guarantor or note holder with money, the lender will then look to the borrower under the note or guarantor and attempt to collect the difference....plus fees, costs and interest of course.

Hopefully this is all good for Ballyneal.
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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #339 on: March 07, 2012, 06:01:07 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 07, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
Between this and the Olympics news, this has got to be the biggest news day in the past few years of GCA...

Jud,

I highly doubt it. 

Speaking of all of this information going around, I wish someone would show the place some respect and not talk about all the financials here on the internet. 
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #340 on: March 07, 2012, 06:07:37 PM »
Respect begin and ends in the public records unfortunately.
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Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #341 on: March 07, 2012, 06:17:51 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on March 07, 2012, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 07, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
Between this and the Olympics news, this has got to be the biggest news day in the past few years of GCA...

Jud,

I highly doubt it. 

Speaking of all of this information going around, I wish someone would show the place some respect and not talk about all the financials here on the internet. 

JC-

If you're going to try to turn the tables, at least get the original statement correct.  I haven't seen anything resembling speculation or inaccuracy in what has been discussed today.

Sven
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #342 on: March 07, 2012, 06:29:51 PM »
JC,

I've never got why its disrespectful to talk about publicly disclosed transactions and events with their corresponding figures.  If its private and speculative, I get that....

Am I disrespecting Taco Bell if I announce that I only paid $1.63 for a Burrito Supreme because I have a 50 Cent off coupon?  Are they now pissed because the "secret is out" to their other millions of customers?

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Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #343 on: March 07, 2012, 06:32:45 PM »
Don't really know if it means anything other than all the people who put money into  Ballyneal just were wiped out except Curlander/Oneal family.  It doesn't quite............
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #344 on: March 07, 2012, 06:38:33 PM »
I certainly hope this works out well for the club, its members and staff. I am sorry for Rupert and his family if I am reading all of this correctly. The Neal's put their heart and soul as well as their land into the project.
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Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #345 on: March 07, 2012, 06:46:28 PM »
Quote from: Tiger_Bernhardt on March 07, 2012, 06:38:33 PM
I certainly hope this works out well for the club, its members and staff. I am sorry for Rupert and his family if I am reading all of this correctly. The Neal's put their heart and soul as well as their land into the project.

I am sorry for the people that invested in it, they lost investments. O'Neal's still own it.
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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #346 on: March 07, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
Quote from: Sven Nilsen on March 07, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: JC Jones on March 07, 2012, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 07, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
Between this and the Olympics news, this has got to be the biggest news day in the past few years of GCA...

Jud,

I highly doubt it. 

Speaking of all of this information going around, I wish someone would show the place some respect and not talk about all the financials here on the internet. 

JC-

If you're going to try to turn the tables, at least get the original statement correct.  I haven't seen anything resembling speculation or inaccuracy in what has been discussed today.

Sven

Sven,

If you're going to call me out, at least get the original statement correct.  Ben Sims's admonishment on the first page had nothing to do with speculation.
Logged
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #347 on: March 07, 2012, 06:58:53 PM »
Aside from the sordid financial details, the real news is that the guys like Jim who truly love the place will be able to tee it up again come summer.  That, JC, is the headline to me.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #348 on: March 07, 2012, 07:04:19 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on March 07, 2012, 06:55:14 PM
Quote from: Sven Nilsen on March 07, 2012, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: JC Jones on March 07, 2012, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 07, 2012, 05:40:44 PM
Between this and the Olympics news, this has got to be the biggest news day in the past few years of GCA...

Jud,

I highly doubt it. 

Speaking of all of this information going around, I wish someone would show the place some respect and not talk about all the financials here on the internet. 

JC-

If you're going to try to turn the tables, at least get the original statement correct.  I haven't seen anything resembling speculation or inaccuracy in what has been discussed today.

Sven

Sven,

If you're going to call me out, at least get the original statement correct.  Ben Sims's admonishment on the first page had nothing to do with speculation.

His may not of, but mine did.
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"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #349 on: March 07, 2012, 07:05:47 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on March 07, 2012, 06:58:53 PM
Aside from the sordid financial details, the real news is that the guys like Jim who truly love the place will be able to tee it up again come summer.  That, JC, is the headline to me.

Jud,

This is a headline: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7657131/michigan-wolverines-players-tweets-violated-ncaa-rule

 :P ;D
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.
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