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Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #300 on: January 13, 2012, 01:33:39 PM »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #301 on: January 13, 2012, 01:46:44 PM »
Any chance they add carts? Walking only limits the number of golfers who could be members.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Sam Morrow

Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #302 on: January 13, 2012, 01:48:51 PM »
Any chance they add carts? Walking only limits the number of golfers who could be members.

Good question. Might help with folks getting in a late round after coming in from Denver or before they head to the airport.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #303 on: January 13, 2012, 03:32:19 PM »
The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.


Probably no surprise but I couldn't disagree more with Sven's post.  When the 5th rated course in the US is in trouble, it is certainly newsworthy and worthy of discussion, as long as that discussion is civil.  Most of us learned about it here, following a blog post by one of the members.  With the Golf Digest piece, it is also very much in the public domain.  Rather than be uniformed, why not inform?  It isn't a state secret, and I haven't seen anyone post here hope for a anything but positive outcome for Ballyneal, its members, and terrific staff. 

It sounds like things are moving forward and that is a good thing. 

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #304 on: January 13, 2012, 03:54:29 PM »
The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.


I don't know, Sven.  The analogy would be apt if the family of four was doing interviews with national media outlets disclosing the amount of their debt and if the children in the family were blogging about the family's financial woes.

If it was meant to be secretive then why would the GM be disclosing figures to Golf Digest?

In any event, I think you are overvaluing GCA.com and the value anyone "close to the situation" would place on the information in this thread.  Now, Golf Digest on the other hand, information there might matter, which is why I find it surprising they would disclose so much. 
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #305 on: January 13, 2012, 04:32:40 PM »
From Golf Digest article:

Some of that debt consists of loans from founding members, which will in all likelihood be wiped out.

One man's suggestion, I would offer the current members who gave loans to Ballyneal (above their initiation fee) some percentage of equity in the new entity. Karma of the place will be enhanced, imo.

Good luck.



Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #307 on: January 13, 2012, 04:45:06 PM »
From Golf Digest article:

Some of that debt consists of loans from founding members, which will in all likelihood be wiped out.

One man's suggestion, I would offer the current members who gave loans to Ballyneal (above their initiation fee) some percentage of equity in the new entity. Karma of the place will be enhanced, imo.

Good luck.



Mike:

I certainly agree with your post.  However, if the finances don't allow, they should at least create a "founding member" designation that provides these people some benefit.

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #308 on: January 13, 2012, 04:54:36 PM »
The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.


Probably no surprise but I couldn't disagree more with Sven's post.  When the 5th rated course in the US is in trouble, it is certainly newsworthy and worthy of discussion, as long as that discussion is civil.  Most of us learned about it here, following a blog post by one of the members.  With the Golf Digest piece, it is also very much in the public domain.  Rather than be uniformed, why not inform?  It isn't a state secret, and I haven't seen anyone post here hope for a anything but positive outcome for Ballyneal, its members, and terrific staff.  

It sounds like things are moving forward and that is a good thing.  


Chris:

The fact that we made it though 12 pages on this thread before it became public that the note holder is Rupert's brother in law is evidence enough for me that the majority of the posters on this thread did not have enough information to contribute anything but speculation or misinformation.  If you read my post #255 from back in November, I tried to make this point the last time we went through this.  

There's a human element to this story that was overshadowed by the talk of numbers, hospitality models and travel times to Denver.

I never said this story wasn't newsworthy.  I did say that if you knew the facts, what had been written in this thread had little relevance.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 05:52:20 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #309 on: January 13, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »
The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.


I don't know, Sven.  The analogy would be apt if the family of four was doing interviews with national media outlets disclosing the amount of their debt and if the children in the family were blogging about the family's financial woes.

If it was meant to be secretive then why would the GM be disclosing figures to Golf Digest?

In any event, I think you are overvaluing GCA.com and the value anyone "close to the situation" would place on the information in this thread.  Now, Golf Digest on the other hand, information there might matter, which is why I find it surprising they would disclose so much. 

JC-

Funny thing is, I had not yet seen the Golf Digest article when I posted earlier today.  Now that the cat's out of the bag and the world knows who holds the note, perhaps we want to explore the intricacies of family and in-law relationships before we speculate on the simple dollar cost of buying out the debt.

Go tell your wife's brother you are taking his dream away, see how he responds.  When you get back home, let me know if the locks have been changed.

 
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #310 on: January 13, 2012, 05:02:48 PM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #311 on: January 13, 2012, 05:08:41 PM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #312 on: January 13, 2012, 05:32:13 PM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.

I just figured your in-laws were Buckeye M.D.s.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #313 on: January 13, 2012, 05:33:12 PM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.

There have been some really funny posts today.  Good because I have a foot of snow outside my window.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #314 on: January 13, 2012, 08:45:41 PM »
Keith great line. lol

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #315 on: January 14, 2012, 08:15:42 AM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Reminds me of a good golf line: The son-in-law shot. You know when you half top a 3 wood and it somehow rolls out 200 yards?

Not what you were hoping for, but you'll live with it...

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #316 on: January 14, 2012, 11:42:29 AM »
Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Reminds me of a good golf line: The son-in-law shot. You know when you half top a 3 wood and it somehow rolls out 200 yards?

Not what you were hoping for, but you'll live with it...

Bill, too funny!  I don't don't kno if I'm crying because I'm laughing so hard or the fact that I have 2 unwed daughters. :'(
Coasting is a downhill process

Michael Underwood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #317 on: January 19, 2012, 03:20:30 PM »
A couple questions. 

1) how much land is part of ballyneal which is not part of the course?

2) what are the zoning options for the area?

From an investment perspective, the property is worth $1 than its next best use.  If there is no possible for any development, then the price will probably be 40% on the dollar.

Mark - If you had ever been to Ballyneal you would know that the best use for the land is the world class golf course that sits on it!  The only other possible use is as a cattle ranch with a very low carrying capacity. 

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #318 on: January 20, 2012, 04:56:16 PM »
A couple questions. 

1) how much land is part of ballyneal which is not part of the course?

2) what are the zoning options for the area?

From an investment perspective, the property is worth $1 than its next best use.  If there is no possible for any development, then the price will probably be 40% on the dollar.


Michael,

You are missing my point.   My comment was strictly around the potential valuation options for the property.   With any development, the ultimate value is driven by the next best alternative, whether it be a golf course, a game farm, a farm, airport or housing development.

Mark - If you had ever been to Ballyneal you would know that the best use for the land is the world class golf course that sits on it!  The only other possible use is as a cattle ranch with a very low carrying capacity. 

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #319 on: January 20, 2012, 05:41:44 PM »
Go tell your wife's brother you are taking his dream away, see how he responds.  When you get back home, let me know if the locks have been changed. 

Sympathy quickly sides with the debtor these days.    How about this angle:  Go tell your wife that her brother can't pay you the $1.7 million he borrowed from you (or someone else in case you purchased the note) and see how she responds. 

Oops, I forgot that we bankers are the new bad guys (you're welcome, lawyers).

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #320 on: January 20, 2012, 06:06:10 PM »
Hendren,

I think the tiff or issue has not been with the lenders who have been responsible throughout and followed the rules....

...its been the ones playing with house money (namely our money, the depositors) and then wanting a bailout cause they blew it all!!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #321 on: January 20, 2012, 06:17:02 PM »
It has swung though Kalen...now it's any banker that's not handing out money on easy terms to people that look like they probably can't pay it back...there was a funny article somewhere about the lawyer who negotiated the 8.5B deal from BoA. The punch line was out of a greatful dead song...touch of gray.

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #322 on: March 07, 2012, 04:21:44 PM »
The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #323 on: March 07, 2012, 04:31:14 PM »
The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

So the "secured lender" (according to http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/trouble-at-ballyneal-whats-the.html) buys a property out of foreclosure, of which he foreclosed on himself? What am I missing?
H.P.S.

Ross Harmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal in foreclosure
« Reply #324 on: March 07, 2012, 04:31:55 PM »
Great news for golf and Ballyneal, although I'm sure a very sad day for Rupert.

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