Ballyneal in foreclosure

[Howard Riefs]

To help stem the numbers speculation, some real details via Pete Finch:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/trouble-at-ballyneal-whats-the.html#entry-more

[Tim Leahy]

Any chance they add carts? Walking only limits the number of golfers who could be members.

[Sam Morrow]

Any chance they add carts? Walking only limits the number of golfers who could be members.

Good question. Might help with folks getting in a late round after coming in from Denver or before they head to the airport.

[Chris Johnston]

The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.

Probably no surprise but I couldn't disagree more with Sven's post.  When the 5th rated course in the US is in trouble, it is certainly newsworthy and worthy of discussion, as long as that discussion is civil.  Most of us learned about it here, following a blog post by one of the members.  With the Golf Digest piece, it is also very much in the public domain.  Rather than be uniformed, why not inform?  It isn't a state secret, and I haven't seen anyone post here hope for a anything but positive outcome for Ballyneal, its members, and terrific staff. 

It sounds like things are moving forward and that is a good thing. 

[JC Jones]

The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.

I don't know, Sven.  The analogy would be apt if the family of four was doing interviews with national media outlets disclosing the amount of their debt and if the children in the family were blogging about the family's financial woes.

If it was meant to be secretive then why would the GM be disclosing figures to Golf Digest?

In any event, I think you are overvaluing GCA.com and the value anyone "close to the situation" would place on the information in this thread.  Now, Golf Digest on the other hand, information there might matter, which is why I find it surprising they would disclose so much. 

[Mike Sweeney]

From Golf Digest article:

Some of that debt consists of loans from founding members, which will in all likelihood be wiped out.

One man's suggestion, I would offer the current members who gave loans to Ballyneal (above their initiation fee) some percentage of equity in the new entity. Karma of the place will be enhanced, imo.

Good luck.

[Mike Sweeney]

People still buy boats.

http://www.boatingindustry.com/top-stories/2011/09/27/pontoon-migration-no-end-in-sight/

[Michael George]

From Golf Digest article:

Some of that debt consists of loans from founding members, which will in all likelihood be wiped out.

One man's suggestion, I would offer the current members who gave loans to Ballyneal (above their initiation fee) some percentage of equity in the new entity. Karma of the place will be enhanced, imo.

Good luck.

Mike:

I certainly agree with your post.  However, if the finances don't allow, they should at least create a "founding member" designation that provides these people some benefit.

[Sven Nilsen]

The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.

Probably no surprise but I couldn't disagree more with Sven's post.  When the 5th rated course in the US is in trouble, it is certainly newsworthy and worthy of discussion, as long as that discussion is civil.  Most of us learned about it here, following a blog post by one of the members.  With the Golf Digest piece, it is also very much in the public domain.  Rather than be uniformed, why not inform?  It isn't a state secret, and I haven't seen anyone post here hope for a anything but positive outcome for Ballyneal, its members, and terrific staff.  

It sounds like things are moving forward and that is a good thing.  

Chris:

The fact that we made it though 12 pages on this thread before it became public that the note holder is Rupert's brother in law is evidence enough for me that the majority of the posters on this thread did not have enough information to contribute anything but speculation or misinformation.  If you read my post #255 from back in November, I tried to make this point the last time we went through this.  

There's a human element to this story that was overshadowed by the talk of numbers, hospitality models and travel times to Denver.

I never said this story wasn't newsworthy.  I did say that if you knew the facts, what had been written in this thread had little relevance.

[Sven Nilsen]

The amount of speculation and misinformation on this thread serves no purpose other than to muddy the waters.  As stated before, the folks who really know what is going on with Ballyneal 2.0 are keeping things pretty close to the chest, for good reasons.  Its a trickier situation than most realize, and involves more than just figuring out the numbers.

I find this type of talk akin to a neighbor openly discussing how much he'd pay to buy the house out from under the family of four that can't make their mortgage payment because both parents lost their jobs.  If it was your club facing a reorg, would you want to log on here and read a bunch of uninformed posts from uninvolved parties about what should be done?

Please let this be the last post on this thread.

I don't know, Sven.  The analogy would be apt if the family of four was doing interviews with national media outlets disclosing the amount of their debt and if the children in the family were blogging about the family's financial woes.

If it was meant to be secretive then why would the GM be disclosing figures to Golf Digest?

In any event, I think you are overvaluing GCA.com and the value anyone "close to the situation" would place on the information in this thread.  Now, Golf Digest on the other hand, information there might matter, which is why I find it surprising they would disclose so much. 

JC-

Funny thing is, I had not yet seen the Golf Digest article when I posted earlier today.  Now that the cat's out of the bag and the world knows who holds the note, perhaps we want to explore the intricacies of family and in-law relationships before we speculate on the simple dollar cost of buying out the debt.

Go tell your wife's brother you are taking his dream away, see how he responds.  When you get back home, let me know if the locks have been changed.

 

[Keith OHalloran]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

[JC Jones]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.

[Lou_Duran]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.

I just figured your in-laws were Buckeye M.D.s.

[Michael George]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Hands down the funniest thing I've ever read on this site.  I have tears in my eyes I'm laughing so hard.  So pure, I love it.

There have been some really funny posts today.  Good because I have a foot of snow outside my window.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Keith great line. lol

[Bill Brightly]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Reminds me of a good golf line: The son-in-law shot. You know when you half top a 3 wood and it somehow rolls out 200 yards?

Not what you were hoping for, but you'll live with it...

[Tim Nugent]

Sven,
When JC got married he took a lot of his wife's family's dreams away.

Reminds me of a good golf line: The son-in-law shot. You know when you half top a 3 wood and it somehow rolls out 200 yards?

Not what you were hoping for, but you'll live with it...

Bill, too funny!  I don't don't kno if I'm crying because I'm laughing so hard or the fact that I have 2 unwed daughters.

[Michael Underwood]

A couple questions. 

1) how much land is part of ballyneal which is not part of the course?

2) what are the zoning options for the area?

From an investment perspective, the property is worth $1 than its next best use.  If there is no possible for any development, then the price will probably be 40% on the dollar.

Mark - If you had ever been to Ballyneal you would know that the best use for the land is the world class golf course that sits on it!  The only other possible use is as a cattle ranch with a very low carrying capacity. 

[Mark Johnson]

A couple questions. 

1) how much land is part of ballyneal which is not part of the course?

2) what are the zoning options for the area?

From an investment perspective, the property is worth $1 than its next best use.  If there is no possible for any development, then the price will probably be 40% on the dollar.

Michael,

You are missing my point.   My comment was strictly around the potential valuation options for the property.   With any development, the ultimate value is driven by the next best alternative, whether it be a golf course, a game farm, a farm, airport or housing development.

Mark - If you had ever been to Ballyneal you would know that the best use for the land is the world class golf course that sits on it!  The only other possible use is as a cattle ranch with a very low carrying capacity. 

[Mike Hendren]

Go tell your wife's brother you are taking his dream away, see how he responds.  When you get back home, let me know if the locks have been changed. 

Sympathy quickly sides with the debtor these days.    How about this angle:  Go tell your wife that her brother can't pay you the $1.7 million he borrowed from you (or someone else in case you purchased the note) and see how she responds. 

Oops, I forgot that we bankers are the new bad guys (you're welcome, lawyers).

Bogey

[Kalen Braley]

Hendren,

I think the tiff or issue has not been with the lenders who have been responsible throughout and followed the rules....

...its been the ones playing with house money (namely our money, the depositors) and then wanting a bailout cause they blew it all!!

[JESII]

It has swung though Kalen...now it's any banker that's not handing out money on easy terms to people that look like they probably can't pay it back...there was a funny article somewhere about the lawyer who negotiated the 8.5B deal from BoA. The punch line was out of a greatful dead song...touch of gray.

[Tyler Kearns]

The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

[PCCraig]

The auction took place this morning and was won by John Curlander, and will be open for the upcoming 2012 season, according to;
http://ballynealcaddy.blogspot.com/2012/03/ballyneal-auction-wray-colorado.html

This is great news, and I hope the future is nothing but bright for the golf course and its members.

TK

So the "secured lender" (according to http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2012/01/trouble-at-ballyneal-whats-the.html) buys a property out of foreclosure, of which he foreclosed on himself? What am I missing?

[Ross Harmon]

Great news for golf and Ballyneal, although I'm sure a very sad day for Rupert.