[Padraig Dooley]

I had a conversation yesterday with a gentleman, the subject of the conversation was the look of certain holes. He felt the only view of a golf hole that mattered was the view from tee to green, how much merit is there in this position?

Does the green to tee view matter? If so, why?

[Jaeger Kovich]

I had a conversation yesterday with a gentleman, the subject of the conversation was the look of certain holes. He felt the only view of a golf hole that mattered was the view from tee to green, how much merit is there in this position?

If your last name is Jones than its all that matters

[Padraig Dooley]

In what context Padraig? Looking back on a hole has no bearing on how you will play it but certainly  the most handsome shots of golf courses are taken looking back from behind a green...

That is why it always puzzled me when folks referred to MacKenzie's camouflage bunkers that couldn't be seen when looking back towards the tee - it always baffled me as golf tends to be played FROM the tee to the green...

Brian, the context was whether features should blend with the surroundings, if they look well from the tee, it shouldn't matter too much if they don't blend in well from the opposite view.

[Mac Plumart]

I played a round awhile back with the super and architect of a certain course.  They were strongly in agreement that every facet of the golf course mattered...perhaps I should say ever facet of the club mattered.  Perhaps the golf only nature of this club made that point redundant, but nevertheless.

They wanted the tee markers, the clubhouse, the halfway house, the flags to "go" with each other.  They wanted the greens, the bunkers, the tee boxes, and fairways to go with each other.  They wanted the natural trees, vegetation, and man-made golf features to go together.  They wanted the views from each and every angle to be the best they could be.

And when you looked at the finishedp product they smashed a home run.

Perhaps the nuts and bolts of the golf course/club, get it in a certain ballpark.  But perhaps the details take it to the next level and/or maximize its position in said ballpark.

EDIT...I remember a specific comment the super made.  We were playing a hole that had a center line bunker inline with the tee box and green.  Evidently, the two of them had a conversation about planting fescue on the back lip of that bunker and letting it grow out.  Because they made a point to show me how the long flowing fescue grass just blocked out the view of the green from the tee box and obscured the golfer's view just enough to get in his head and cause some doubt in his mind on the tee box.  With the wind blowing that grass back and forth, you could just see the green when the grass moved with the wind.  And you know what?  They were right.  I was some what comfortable with the shot, but just a bit uneasy on that tee box for some reason...I think due to the fact that it was my first play and I wasn't for certain what was over that bunker.

Perhaps little details like that go a long way.

[Eric Smith]

My answer comes only from book knowledge, not experience, unfortunately...but tell me that the green to tee view on the12th at St Andrews doesn't learn ya somethin...for next time!

[Carl Johnson]

As a humble golfer, I'd say the look from anywhere one might normally play is important.  Also, the look of what of the course you see from the clubhouse is important.

[Randy Thompson]

Gotta go with Mac on this, doesn´t seem to matter if were talking golf courses, hotels, houses or whatever, when you get near the top the ones that standout in excllence are the one that cater to the DETAILS!

[Mark Alexander]

As a golf course photographer, I like to take both tee-to-green and green-to-tee shots because they offer an entirely different view and, as such, serve a different purpose.
The green-to-tee shot is appealing because you have the flag and the undulations of the green in the foreground. You can also feature the bunkering and the run-off areas. The fairway is secondary but very much part of the image.
Tee-to-green shots (or landing-area-to-green shots) provide a different perspective. I like to take my photographs from the player's perspective so they can imagine the club selection they would have to make or which bank or ridge to use to get the ball close. As a result, tee-to-green shots provide that realism.
To add another fly to the ointment, I don't restrict myself to these two variants. I often shoot a hole from a number of different angles, possibly high on a hill using a long lens or to the side of the green showing off the slopes. One angle doesn't do it all. For me, it's about providing my clients with choice.

[Michael Goldstein]

Many beautiful golfing views from random angles are stuck in my head.  Often these images look out across a number of different greens or holes - unimpeded by unnecessary trees.  First that randomly spring to mind are Chantilly and a course in Fife called Aberdour.   

[Tim Nugent]

Many beautiful golfing views from random angles are stuck in my head.  Often these images look out across a number of different greens or holes - unimpeded by unnecessary trees.    

Far and away my favorite.  I prefer to like pictures that are Landscape Art, not just a static point of view as it is played.  Besides, many golf holes will vary in look as one walks across a fairway. The "Cross-Country" at dusk (or with a storm approaching) picture  is perhaps the most stirring images of golf courses.

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't the best way to understand a hole and its contours, attack angles, etc, to look at it from behind the green back toward the tee?    I think that view is highly relevant to intelligent course management.   

[JMEvensky]

Isn't the best way to understand a hole and its contours, attack angles, etc, to look at it from behind the green back toward the tee?    I think that view is highly relevant to intelligent course management. 
 

True,but what if you only get to play it once?

[Bill_McBride]

Isn't the best way to understand a hole and its contours, attack angles, etc, to look at it from behind the green back toward the tee?    I think that view is highly relevant to intelligent course management. 
 

True,but what if you only get to play it once?

Well.........(1) you can always reflect ruefully on how much better you'd have played it if only you knew then what you know now; or, (2) maybe you'll get invited back!

[Evan Fleisher]

Isn't the best way to understand a hole and its contours, attack angles, etc, to look at it from behind the green back toward the tee?    I think that view is highly relevant to intelligent course management.   

+1

My thoughts exactly!

[Peter Pallotta]

Padraig - it seems to me that the gentlemen makes a valid point.  Whatever other interests I may have, my real and primary relationship with and participation in gca/golf courses is as a golfer; and as a golfer I experience a golf hole -- and I play the game, the card and pencil game -- from the tee.  I actually interact with the architecture/features only one golf hole at a time, and always in the same way, i.e. I step up to the tee and then, 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 shots later, I step off the green. So, yes, if not the only important view certainly the most important view is the one from the tee.   

Peter

[Padraig Dooley]

Padraig - it seems to me that the gentlemen makes a valid point.  Whatever other interests I may have, my real and primary relationship with and participation in gca/golf courses is as a golfer; and as a golfer I experience a golf hole -- and I play the game, the card and pencil game -- from the tee.  I actually interact with the architecture/features only one golf hole at a time, and always in the same way, i.e. I step up to the tee and then, 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 shots later, I step off the green. So, yes, if not the only important view certainly the most important view is the one from the tee.   

Peter

Peter

His point was the green to tee view was irrelevant. I think that everyone would agree that the tee to green view is the most important. Mac's reply is great it all comes down to attention to detail, the great guys don't ignore the little details.

[Michael Goldstein]

Peter,

Yes, from a GCA perspective, you only care about the view of the hole you're playing. But then when you're standing on the green talking shit with your playing partners about the antics of the last evening and then all of a sudden you stop and glare out across two green complexes nearby.... that is pure.

M

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