Bandon Trails - bulldoze and start over...

[Sean Leary]

isn't a 4 man golf cart shuttle the modern version of the funicular?

It may not look as cool but it does the same thing.

[Pete Lavallee]

That particular funucular actually shuttles golf carts! It's at Industry Hills. It was out of operation one day when we decided to walk the Eisenhower Course; that is one tough climb up that hill on a 100 degree day!

[Bill_McBride]

I think one simple change at BT....

An electric funicular that quietly shuttled you to the 14th tee would add a lot.

Funny, my first course, Indian Valley in Novato, Marin Co., Calif, had a similar funicular, also from the 13th green to 14th tee!

Bill,

It's been a while for me, but I thought Indian Valley still had this.  No?

Last time I played there, probably 20 years ago, it was.   They built it in the '50's after a member died of a heart attack from hiking Cardiac Hill.   

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am with Paul.  One should just start a new thread when one feels the need to hijack it. This has drifted so far away that some of the posts are about courses in others areas that have features that do not exist on the course which was the subject of the thread to begin with.

[William_G]

I think one simple change at BT....

An electric funicular that quietly shuttled you to the 14th tee would add a lot.

A lot of stupidity

[Rob Rigg]

After 36 at Trails on Saturday I left the resort thinking that it has to be my (current) favorite track there.

One is a better hole than I remembered - a solid opener - not too tough but no pushover.
Two is a drop shot but club selection is obviously important and the wind can play a factory. A good 1 - 2 combo.
3 through 7 are still as good as remembered - the green on 5 is fantastic and makes the hole a lot more challenging than the distance. Tee shot placement on 4 is vital to success and 6 is a bit easier but no pushover - especially with that great green complex.
I was pretty meh on 8 before the trip but forgot how good that green is - some subtle movement combined with move obvious slopes makes for a really great hole. Anything from a 2 to an X is in play and the fairway kicks way harder to the left than I thought - danger!
9 and 10 are birdie chances which is welcome at that point in the round and then 11 through 17 are brilliant. When Wags and I both dropped birds on 14 I decided to call off the dozers because this hole can be played in 3 to 5 intelligently every time. 16 is also super forgiving off the tee, then a shot up the right side sets up a fairly straightforward pitch or short iron to the green - much tougher in my mind than in reality. 13, 15, and 17 are GREAT holes.
18 needs some work - the knob in the fairway means a well struck shot can be lost, in bunkers, or whatever - a bit too penal IMO - but aside from that BT would be a great course to play everyday.

Some of C&Cs best work that I have seen at it definitely stands up to the other courses at the Resort despite the lack of ocean front holes.

[Sven Nilsen]

After 36 at Trails on Saturday I left the resort thinking that it has to be my (current) favorite track there.

One is a better hole than I remembered - a solid opener - not too tough but no pushover.
Two is a drop shot but club selection is obviously important and the wind can play a factory. A good 1 - 2 combo.
3 through 7 are still as good as remembered - the green on 5 is fantastic and makes the hole a lot more challenging than the distance. Tee shot placement on 4 is vital to success and 6 is a bit easier but no pushover - especially with that great green complex.
I was pretty meh on 8 before the trip but forgot how good that green is - some subtle movement combined with move obvious slopes makes for a really great hole. Anything from a 2 to an X is in play and the fairway kicks way harder to the left than I thought - danger!
9 and 10 are birdie chances which is welcome at that point in the round and then 11 through 17 are brilliant. When Wags and I both dropped birds on 14 I decided to call off the dozers because this hole can be played in 3 to 5 intelligently every time. 16 is also super forgiving off the tee, then a shot up the right side sets up a fairly straightforward pitch or short iron to the green - much tougher in my mind than in reality. 13, 15, and 17 are GREAT holes.
18 needs some work - the knob in the fairway means a well struck shot can be lost, in bunkers, or whatever - a bit too penal IMO - but aside from that BT would be a great course to play everyday.

Some of C&Cs best work that I have seen at it definitely stands up to the other courses at the Resort despite the lack of ocean front holes.

Spot on Rob. 

Couple of questions:

1.  From a walkability perspective, what's your take?
2.  How many prior plays do you have?
3.  After this trip, what's your 8 round split at the resort?

[Jim Franklin]

Sven -

While I am not Rob, I enjoyed the walk. It wasn't easy, but got your blood flowing which is what exercise is all about. The other 3 courses are certainly much more tame, but I don't have a problem with the walk.

Splitting rounds, we are doing 8 rounds this summer and we are doing 3 PD, 3 OM, and 1 each at the other 2. Not because BD and BT are bad, but because our group LOVED OM and PD last year.

[Mac Plumart]

The walk is fine.  I've got two bad wheels and I never once even  thought I couldn't make it.

[Sven Nilsen]

I've done the walk on three different trips out there and am in the camp that thinks it isn't that bad.  I was hoping to get the authority on the subject's reaction.

[Brad Isaacs]

The ability to complain about the 4thbest  course at Bandon.  There are some really good holes there 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,15,16 and 17 are ok. Will never go gaga over 14 and 18 hence number 4.  Really really good golf.  I just don't care for those two holes.  Is 14 the best hole you come up with there? Is 18 a great finisher?  I think 18 would hav been better on the other side of the clubhouse.  14 has crawled too far into my brain for me to rationally talk about it. (it has totally defeated me)

[Jud_T]

When you think about it, it's pretty surprising that this course isn't more universally liked on this site, particularly given the supposed biases here.  C&C, quirk, great conditioning, what's not to like?  Yeah it's not the easiest walk, but not as tough as some courses that are loved here.  Does #14 push the envelope?  Yes, but conquering it feels like such an accomplishment that I wouldn't change a thing and hearing the bum beef of those who've had 1 or 2 bad experiences doesn't mean it's a bad hole, just that they have yet to navigate it successfully and/or are too much of a closet scorecard and penciller.  Does the course suffer from having no ocean views in relation to the others at the resort?  Yes, but that may say more about how some really view the importance of scenery than about the Trails IMO.  I'd really like to see a hole by hole match by those who claim BD is it's superior.  Personally I'd play BT 9-1 over BD...

[Will MacEwen]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

[Sean Leary]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

What have they done? Removal of gorse is just going back to what it was originally...

[Mac Plumart]

Jud:

These hole by hole match play comparisons over look the most important element of a golf coure.  Don't they?

Routing.

[JLahrman]

When you think about it, it's pretty surprising that this course isn't more universally liked on this site, particularly given the supposed biases here.  C&C, quirk, great conditioning, what's not to like?

14 is always going to be polarizing, but I actually think Bandon Trails gets a lot of love on this site.  When I was at the KPI this year I was surprised at how many GCAers rated BT as their favorite course at Bandon.

[William_G]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

What have they done? Removal of gorse is just going back to what it was originally...

I have to disagree, as I played BD just after opening and the gorse they have now removed is in no way a return to how it was. However, I have buddies who work there now, but not 12 years ago, who have been told that it is a return, but I'm not buying that as a justification.
I would need pic to change my view on that.

They have denuded many areas on BD that have opened views favorably, like behind the 6th tee, but like Will said...it is becoming more bland...but it has sped up play as it is less penal.

As to improving #18 at Trails, Im sure C&C has looked at that as they just finished the Preserve and visit all the time....

Love Trails
Thanks

[Sean Leary]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

What have they done? Removal of gorse is just going back to what it was originally...

I have to disagree, as I played BD just after opening and the gorse they have now removed is in no way a return to how it was. However, I have buddies who work there now, but not 12 years ago, who have been told that it is a return, but I'm not buying that as a justification.
I would need pic to change my view on that.

They have denuded many areas on BD that have opened views favorably, like behind the 6th tee, but like Will said...it is becoming more bland...but it has sped up play as it is less penal.

As to improving #18 at Trails, Im sure C&C has looked at that as they just finished the Preserve and visit all the time....

Love Trails
Thanks

Gray,

I did as well and don't remember it that way either. Someone a while ago posted some pics that proved it though, from what i remember..

[Will MacEwen]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

What have they done? Removal of gorse is just going back to what it was originally...

Gorse removal is much beyond what it was in 2001, to my eye.  #4, 11, 13, 16 and 17 most noticeable to me.

They also seem to be moving tees up quite frequently, but that is not a permanent change, but seems to be in play every time I am there.

[Tim Bert]

On my recent trip, we beat the trolley and had to walk (clubs on back) to the 14th tee.  It really wasn't that bad.

I think they have softened BD too much.  Some great holes, but some blandness is creeping in. 

What have they done? Removal of gorse is just going back to what it was originally...

Gorse removal is much beyond what it was in 2001, to my eye.  #4, 11, 13, 16 and 17 most noticeable to me.

They also seem to be moving tees up quite frequently, but that is not a permanent change, but seems to be in play every time I am there.

You don't mention #5, but that's got to be the poster child in my mind.  I've never seen photo of that hole from the course opening that looks remotely like what they've done with it the past 18 months.  That has to be more of a softening than a "restoring."

Regarding tees being placed forward, I'm pretty sure I have not once seen the green tee placed as far back as it was on BD#4, BD#5, or PD #18 the first time I visited in 2003.  Probably a few others as well.  Not that I'm complaining!  I can use all the help I can get.

[Jud_T]

Jud:

These hole by hole match play comparisons over look the most important element of a golf coure.  Don't they?

Routing.

Mac,

I don't see why the one trolly ride totally ruins the routing for you.  Personally, I'd say 1) Getting to that great 14th tee shot is worth breaking the flow for.  2) After walking the first 13 and possibly another 18 earlier in the day, I don't think most folks mind giving the dogs a rest for a minute.  3)  Hell, it's a resort course that does big volume of high level golf, not a hidden gem from the golden age in a remote corner of GB&I.

[George Pazin]

When did Mac say the routing was ruined by a ride?

To everyone: Don't worry, if it comes down to Don laying in front of a bulldozer, I will lay down in front of him push someone else in front of him.

[Jud_T]

When did Mac say the routing was ruined by a ride?

I believe it was on the "Whip it out, post your top 25" thread when I questioned why the other 3 courses made his list but BT didn't.

[Will MacEwen]

Tim I meant #5 not #4.  It is the most dramatic.

[Mac Plumart]

Jud:

These hole by hole match play comparisons over look the most important element of a golf coure.  Don't they?

Routing.

Mac,

I don't see why the one trolly ride totally ruins the routing for you.  Personally, I'd say 1) Getting to that great 14th tee shot is worth breaking the flow for.  2) After walking the first 13 and possibly another 18 earlier in the day, I don't think most folks mind giving the dogs a rest for a minute.  3)  Hell, it's a resort course that does big volume of high level golf, not a hidden gem from the golden age in a remote corner of GB&I.

Although I didn't mention that aspect of the course in this thread, Jud is accurate on my feelings.  That part of the routing took the course from out of this world amazing to merely very good, IN MY OPINION.  Which, of course, I am an expert in.  My opinion that is.   

To further expand on that, I felt like once I sat down in that trolley the round was over and the course was done.  Then we got out of the trolley and we look out over a golf hole that was totally out of character with the previous 13 holes.  Again, it felt like I played an all world 13 hole course, then quit, then start a complete new and different golf course.  That is how I felt.  Is 14 a good hole?  Maybe.  I need to play it a few more times.  But to me, it didn't fit with the previous 13. 

However, the point of my previous post was regarding the hole by hole match play comparisons.  People on this site do that all the time.  And I think that only judges a golf course by looking at the collection of golf holes, not the golf course in total.  Routing is completely overlooked and left out (among other things).  I do not think this is a very good way to judge a golf course.