[Mike_Trenham]

On #11, the slope up from the front right up to the back left is is really something to behold.  A hole without a bunker with plenty of teeth even if you ignor the tight confines.

[Joe Bausch]

On #11, the slope up from the front right up to the back left is is really something to behold.  A hole without a bunker with plenty of teeth even if you ignor the tight confines.

It was hard to capture that slope with my camera.  But this view from left of the green shows the absolutely devilish Sunday pin we had:

(use the blue slider bar to see over that far to the right)

[Joe Bausch]

Right next to the 12th green is some stone remnants to the original entrance to the club, first known at Glenwood CC.



I believe this picture from 1913 shows that same general area:

[Joe Bausch]

#13:  "St. Christopher's":  a par 4 (383 yards).

Tee shot view:



Decent drive and you can see part of the flag:



Big drive and you get a view of the green that sits down a bit:



From right of the green:

[Joe Bausch]

Now for what is just a wonderful hole.

#14.  "Double Plateau":  a 419 yard par 4, dogleg right.  I'll just let the pictures do the talkin'!

Tee shot view:



Approach shot view:



Many other views of the awesome green:

[Joe Bausch]

#15:  "Dell":  a slight dogleg right par 4 (378 yards).

Tee shot view:



Decent drive leaves a view of the flag:



Better drive leaves a clean look on the downhill approach shot:



From short and left of the green:



From the bank over the green:



From right of the green:



I'll finish the tour tomorrow!

[michael damico]

Joe,

that 11th pin is a doozie. Another devilish placement is tucked behind that front right bunker that was completely reshaped and is quite impressionable.

The remnants left left of 11 green and left of 12 tees I don't believe are the original entrance. The old photo you have on here looks quite similar to the existing entrance and that structure is the superintendent's house. Or at least, that's what I think. I always wondered what those remnants were from.

[Joe Bausch]

The remnants left left of 11 green and left of 12 tees I don't believe are the original entrance. The old photo you have on here looks quite similar to the existing entrance and that structure is the superintendent's house. Or at least, that's what I think. I always wondered what those remnants were from.

Oh no:  a caddy couldn't be wrong, no?!

[Will Lozier]

Joe,

Looking at your pics of #14 from all angles, it struck me that this green would provide for a fascinating full club approach from any side excepting possibly the right (forest side).  I then started to think of the Reverse Old Course and it struck me that truly great green sites might all have this quality - playable and really interesting from (almost) all angles.  Rambling nonsense?...or valid observation?

Cheers

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Looking at your pics of #14 from all angles, it struck me that this green would provide for a fascinating full club approach from any side excepting possibly the right (forest side).  I then started to think of the Reverse Old Course and it struck me that truly great green sites might all have this quality - playable and really interesting from (almost) all angles.  Rambling nonsense?...or valid observation?

Cheers

Pretty good observation, I think.  What say the treehouse?

[michael damico]

Joe,

Looking at your pics of #14 from all angles, it struck me that this green would provide for a fascinating full club approach from any side excepting possibly the right (forest side).  I then started to think of the Reverse Old Course and it struck me that truly great green sites might all have this quality - playable and really interesting from (almost) all angles.  Rambling nonsense?...or valid observation?

Cheers

Pretty good observation, I think.  What say the treehouse?

+1; great observation.

I recall discussing the fact that 14 is such a wonderful green, yet the approach shot is semi- to fully blind (depending on the tee chosen and the length of the player). I have no problem with that fact, but it's fun watching how the ball reacts and feeds to certain locations.

14 was the highlight for me; s wonderful green. Brian Schneider did an excellent job reworking the 15th greensite as it was sort of a let down coming from that 14th.

[Tom_Doak]

Joe:

I've been traveling all day today and have to for most of the day tomorrow as well, but I will try to get back to this.  Feel free to go slower if you want me to catch up.


P.S. to Ben Sims:  Naming the 15th "Dell" was kind of a joke on you.

[Mark Hissey]

Right next to the 12th green is some stone remnants to the original entrance to the club, first known at Glenwood CC.



I believe this picture from 1913 shows that same general area:

Joe.

That spot is actually to the left of 12 green. It is definitely the entrance to something, but the stonework doesn't look like anything else on the club grounds that I can recall. In addition, it seems to tail off towards an area of Glenwood that may not have been developed. The eastern end of the property was only cleared as part of the development of North Shore in 1914-1916.

I suspect that Glenwood may have been a nine hole course actually. I have nothing to base that on other than the fact that a two year old course was deemed to have needed a lot more work, and the fact that it was clearly stated that the eastern end of the property needed to be cleared.

[Joe Bausch]

Mark, the following article (also includes stuff on Piping Rock; Glenwood info starts at the 3rd paragraph) from the Oct, 1911 NY Sun suggests the course at Glenwood isn't yet finished but is planned to be 18 holes.

[Joe Bausch]

Mark, sometimes I forget what I have in my archive of old newspaper articles. 

This February 1912 article says the course is 18 holes and it sounds like Emmet used a topo map in the design.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to finish the tour today as with academic advising coming up for me starting tomorrow, I might not be able to get the last three holes processed and posted until November.   

#16.  "Ravine":  a dogleg left par 5 (512 yards).  I must admit that I thought this was a very interesting hole, but I'm not quite sure it is a hit in my mind.  I think it is, but I'd like to play it again, particularly the 2nd and 3rd shots into and out of the ravine...

Tee shot view where you really must turn over the driver or run out of fw straight ahead.



The previous pic doesn't quite capture a gully to climb right at the beginning:



From the beginning of the fw:



2nd shot view (which also must be a tremendous place to sled in the wintertime!):



A close up view of the ravine:



From 50 yards short of the green:



From the hill just over the green (separating this green from the biarritz, I think):



Now for the new 17th hole built by TD.

#17.  "Short":  125 yard par 3.

Tee shot view:



From long and left of the green:



From long and a bit right of the green:



From over the green (pretty diabolical green I must say!):



#18.  Another new hole, this "Westward Ho!" par 5 tops out at 639 yards from the tips.

Tee shot view:



From the beginning of the fw:



Approach shot view:



Left bunker is not the place to be:



From just right of the green:



From over the green:



Well, that was fun, eh?

If you wish to view all the photos in my NS photo album, 1400 pixels wide, go here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/northshore/

[michael damico]

Joe,

thanks again for the wonderful pics. You didn't by chance capture the chipping area (seen in the background of your final pic posted - looking back down the 18th green and fairway)?

[Mike_Trenham]

My thoughts on the final 3 holes.

#16 - What would really be lost in difficulty if the trees on the far side of the drive were cleared out?  Seems to me it would only encourage people to hit a longer club and get in more trouble and give the player more options not that they are smart.  The final 1/3 of this hole is a real interesting piece of the property.  I could only wonder if below that ravine was a big clay pipe with a stream running though it making this another example of "you could not build this today".

#17 - Birdied this one but I bet I could play it a bunch more times and make more doubles than birdies as a high single diget.  A good addition which looks like it was always there.

#18 - Not a lot of stuff to get you in trouble but the bunkers that are there are deep so the penalty can be easily a 1/2 shot.  The downhill shot with the ball above my feet made me think I could really draw it in there but I knocked it left of the ridge for a tough two putt.

This three hole finish is a place to make up ground but bogey is not out of reach with a bad mistake.

[Tom_Doak]

How fast were the greens running when you played?  Did anyone try out the various putts you can face on the new 17th?  [Looks like the hole location that day wouldn't have required any circus acts.]

The original green on the short par-4 17th [playing over the new green, and up toward the second tee] was the one piece of the old course I had a hard time letting go of.  It was one of those classic Raynor greens with the raised plateau hole locations in the back left and back right ... though those areas were so small that they couldn't use the back left pin at all, and only occasionally used the back right.  It took a while to decide to discard it, but it was the key to changing both the starting AND finishing holes.  And, in hindsight, the new 17th green is even cooler than the old one.

[Mike_Trenham]

Tom the greens were running at just about the right pace to play nice without being over the top.  The new greens were a bit slower than the others, not dramatic but not the same.   

The practice green will really be something when it matures, reminded me of Ballyneal.

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

thanks again for the wonderful pics. You didn't by chance capture the chipping area (seen in the background of your final pic posted - looking back down the 18th green and fairway)?

I did not shoot any pics of it, but I saw it.  Pretty nice.

TomD:  I would say the old greens were maybe running about 9, the newer just a tad slower.  If they ever run the 17th at double digits, that could get real fun!

[Mark McKeever]

How fast were the greens running when you played?  Did anyone try out the various putts you can face on the new 17th?  [Looks like the hole location that day wouldn't have required any circus acts.]

The original green on the short par-4 17th [playing over the new green, and up toward the second tee] was the one piece of the old course I had a hard time letting go of.  It was one of those classic Raynor greens with the raised plateau hole locations in the back left and back right ... though those areas were so small that they couldn't use the back left pin at all, and only occasionally used the back right.  It took a while to decide to discard it, but it was the key to changing both the starting AND finishing holes.  And, in hindsight, the new 17th green is even cooler than the old one.

Tom,

I was able to putt out quickly on 17 and got to roll a bunch of possible putts across the middle, front, and left areas of the green.  WOW was that fun.  There are a lot of devilish putts out there and I imagine there will be a lot of four putts.  The green was not terribly fast, but I imagine that a lot of those putts will get very wild once the green gets quicker.  I hope the super decides to put a lot of pins on the left/front side  in the future.

Overall a great hole.
Mark

[Mark Hissey]

Mark, sometimes I forget what I have in my archive of old newspaper articles. 

This February 1912 article says the course is 18 holes and it sounds like Emmet used a topo map in the design.

Thank you very much Joe. This is the first mention that I have seen about a golf course that was present before Glenwood.

The plot thickens...

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mark,

When North Shore bought Glenwood in 1914, there was an 18 hole course present. According to the Annual President's Report of NSCC dated March 13, 1915, found in the Harmonie club archives, that course was reported to be 6400y but actually measured out to be slightly over 5000y. That turned out to be the impetus for the club to hire Raynor in November, 1914 in an advisory capacity for the improvement of the existing course. This was reflected in the minutes dated November 5, 1914. Thereafter, the club approved Raynor's plans for a new course on January 26,1915, as reflected in the minutes.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I haven't been to North Shore yet-but, in looking at the photos of the 17th, I immediately thought about it looking somewhat similar to a mirror image of the 2nd at Garden City GC, which is a great hole as well.  This is not meant as a shot in any way, shape, or form-it's a great looking par three, and seems to make good use of a naturally ocurring small ravine on the property.  I love GCGC, so to be inspired by one of the holes there is a good thing. 

Tom, not sure if you can speak to this? 

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