[Cristian]

Golf World magazine recently published the continental european top 100. For interest and discussion sake I have included the top 50 here.

Remarkable: Haagsche moves to no. 3 from 16, following GCA-er Frank Pont's renovations. Also remarkable: the 3 best courses in this part of the world according to Golf Magazine's top 100 World list, are Morfontaine (no. 2 on this list), Oitavos (no.20!) and Valderrama (no. 6). Although there is plenty of question marks to be put with the GW-list, in my opinion the rankings for those 3 courses are a lot more realistic than in GM's top 100 list.

It is interesting how some of the newer high budget developments (quite a few in this list opened in the last 3-5 years) are rated over classics, which in any other part of the world I think, would receive much higher acclaim. (I have seen some 50% of these courses)

1   Golf Les Bordes , Robert von Hagge (1987) , Beaugency , nr. Orleans , Loire Valley , France
2    Morfontaine Golf Club , Tom Simpson (1927) , Chantilly , Paris Ile de France , France
3   Koninklijke Haagsche Golf & CC / Royal The Hague Golf & CC , Harry S. Colt & Alison  Netherlands
4    Royal Zoute Golf Club , Seymour Dunn (1909) + Lt. Colonel Allen & Harry S. Colt (1945) , Knokke Le Zoute ,Belgium
5    Le Golf National (Albatros course) , Hubert Chesneau (1990) , Yvelines , Paris Ile de France , France
6    Valderrama Golf Club , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1975) , Sotogrande , Cadiz , Andalusia , Spain
7   Kennemer Golf & Country Club , Harry S. Colt + Frank Pennink (1910) , Zandvoort , Noord Holland , Netherlands
8   PGA Golf de Catalunya , Neil Coles & Angel Gallardo (1999) , Costa Brava , Catalonia , Spain
9    - Noordwijkse Golf Club , Frank Pennink (1915) , Noordwijk , Zuid Holland , Netherlands
10   Bro Hof Slott, Sweden RTJ II
11    El Saler Golf Club , Javier Arana Ybarra (1967) , nr. Valencia , Spain
12   Chantilly Golf Club , Tom Simpson & John Abercromby (1906) , Chantilly , Paris Ile de France , France
13   Das Branderburg Sporting Club Berlin Scharmutzelsee , Nick Faldo (1997) , Bad Saarow , nr. Berlin , Brandenburg , Germany
14   Fontainebleau Golf Club , Tom Simpson (1909) , Fontainebleau , Paris Ile de France , France
15   The Scandinavian (old) Farum Denmark, RTJ II
16   Lubker, RTJ II, Denmark, Nimtofte
17    Hamburger Golf Club Falkenstein , Harry S. Colt, Alison & Morrison (1906) , Hamburg , Germany
18   Terre-Blanche, Dave Thomas, France
19   Vasatorps, A Hills, Steve Forrest, Helsingborg Sweden
20    Oitavos Golfe , Arthur Hills (2000) , Quina da Marinha , Costa do Estoril , Portugal
21   Real Club de Golf de Sevilla , Jose Maria Olazabal (1991) , Seville , Andalusia , Spain
22   PGA National, Lakes, Malmo, Kyle Phillips
23    Prince de Provence , Robert Trent Jones Jr. (1999) , Vidauban , Var , Provence Cote d'Azur , France
24   San Lorenzo Golf Club , Joseph Lee (1988) , nr. Faro , Algarve , Portugal
25   Budersand, Germany, Sylt. Rolf Stefan Hansen
26   Onyria, Lagos, Portugal, RTJ II
27    Domaine de Sperone Golf , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1990) , Bonifacio , Corsica , France
28   Monte Rei, Nicklaus, Algarve Portugal
29   El Prat, Rosa, Norman, Barcelona, Spain
30   Falsterbo Golf Club , Gunnar Bauer (1909) , Falsterbo , Malmohus , Skaane , Sweden
31    I Roveri Golf & Sports Club , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1971) , Torino , Piemonte , Italy
32    Troia Golf Club , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1981) , Troia Peninsula , nr. Setubal , Portugal
33   Praia d'El Rey Golf & Country Club , Cabell B. Robinson (1997) , nr. Obidos , Costa da Prata , Portugal
34   The Scandinavian (new), Farum, Denmark, RTJ II
35    Utrechtse Golf Club de Pan , Harry S. Colt (1894) , Bosch en Duin , Utrecht , Netherlands
36    Halmstadt Golf Club , Rafael Sundblom (1938) , Halmstad , Hallands , Sweden
37    Royal Golf Club de Belgique Ravenstein , Tom Simpson + Mackenzie Ross (1905) , Brussels , Belgium
38   Seignosse Golf Club , Robert von Hagge (1989) , Cote d'Argent , Aquitaine , France
39   Golf Santander, Madrid, Rees Jones
40   Barseback Golf & Country Club , Ture Bruce (1969) , Jaravallens , Loddekopinge , Malmohus , Skaane , Sweden
41   Penha Longa Golf & Resort , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1992) , Sintra , Costa do Estoril , Portugal
42   PGA Sweden national, Links, Kyle Phillips, Malmo
43    Domaine Imperial Golf Club , Pete Dye (1987) , Nyon , Lake Geneva , Switzerland
44   Real Club de Golf Sotogrande , Robert Trent Jones Sr. (1964) , Sotogrande , Cadiz , Andalucia , France
45   Saint Germain Golf Club , Harry S. Colt (1920) , Yvelines , Paris Ile de France , France
46   Abama, Tenerife, Spain. Dave Thomas
47   Biella Le Betulle Golf Club , John Morisson (1957) , Biella , Piemonte , Italy
48   Le Touquet Golf Club (La Mer course) , Harry S. Colt & Taylor (1931) , nr. Boulogne , Nord Pas de Calais , France
49   Villa d'Este Golf Club , Peter Gannon (1926) , nr. Como , Lombardia , Italy
50   St. Nom La Breteche Golf Club , Frederic William Hawtree (1959) , Yvelines , Paris Ile de France , France

[Tom_Doak]

I have seen seven on the top 12 courses in the list, and have absolutely NO interest in seeing the other five.  In fact, Fontainebleau is the only course listed in the top 25 that I'd really like to see.

The problem with these lists is that there are very few courses on the continent that would get more than a 6 or 7 on the Doak scale, and once you start comparing 100 courses that are mostly all 6's, it is pretty silly to try and rank them individually.  Indeed, a lot of the modern courses rise up on this particular list entirely because of conditioning and having hosted a European Tour event or two.

There is no modern course on that list better than De Pan -- which they've got at #35!

[Cristian]

Tom,

Interesting comment on the newer courses vs. the classics, as stated I could not agree more, especially regarding De Pan.

I think if you took the courses predating 1960, the list becomes more interesting, especially for those not hung up on maintenance (like the GM and GW raters?). In fact many of these tracks to me hold similar interest to courses of the same designers elsewhere, often with less changes over the years but also lower maintenance budgets and less tree removal.

No list of the european continent would ever approach the quality of a US or GB&I list, but if you took the pre1960 list and possibly expand it with Noordwijk, El Saler, Houthalen and Budersand, I think one could hardly go wrong and perhaps be pleasantly surprised when in the area.....


1   Morfontaine Golf Club , Tom Simpson (1927) , Chantilly , Paris Ile de France , France   2
2   Koninklijke Haagsche Golf & CC / Royal The Hague Golf & CC , Harry S. Colt & Alison  Netherlands   3
3   Royal Zoute Golf Club , Seymour Dunn (1909) + Lt. Colonel Allen & Harry S. Colt (1945) , Knokke Le Zoute Belgium   4
4   Kennemer Golf & Country Club , Harry S. Colt + Frank Pennink (1910) , Zandvoort , Noord Holland , Netherlands   7
5   05 - Chantilly Golf Club , Tom Simpson & John Abercromby (1906) , Chantilly , Paris Ile de France , France   12
6   Fontainebleau Golf Club , Tom Simpson (1909) , Fontainebleau , Paris Ile de France , France   14
7    Hamburger Golf Club Falkenstein , Harry S. Colt, Alison & Morrison (1906) , Hamburg , Germany   17
8   Falsterbo Golf Club , Gunnar Bauer (1909) , Falsterbo , Malmohus , Skaane , Sweden   30
9   Utrechtse Golf Club de Pan , Harry S. Colt (1894) , Bosch en Duin , Utrecht , Netherlands   35
10    Halmstadt Golf Club , Rafael Sundblom (1938) , Halmstad , Hallands , Sweden   36
11    Royal Golf Club de Belgique Ravenstein , Tom Simpson + Mackenzie Ross (1905) , Brussels , Belgium   37
12    Saint Germain Golf Club , Harry S. Colt (1920) , Yvelines , Paris Ile de France , France   45
13    Biella Le Betulle Golf Club , John Morisson (1957) , Biella , Piemonte , Italy   47
14    Le Touquet Golf Club (La Mer course) , Harry S. Colt & Taylor (1931) , nr. Boulogne , Nord Pas de Calais , France   48
15   Villa d'Este Golf Club , Peter Gannon (1926) , nr. Como , Lombardia , Italy   49
16   St. Nom La Breteche Golf Club , Frederic William Hawtree (1959) , Yvelines , Paris Ile de France , France   50
17   Bled Golf & Country Club , Donald Harradine (1937) , Bled , Gorenska , Sloveniaa   51
18   Chiberta Golf Club , Tom Simpson (1927) , Biarritz , Aquitaine , France   54
19   Real Club de Golf Puerta de Hierro (Arriba course) , Tom Simpson & John D. Harris (1904) , Madrid , Spain   56
20   Club de Campo Villa de Madrid (Black course) , Javier Arana Ybarra (1956) , Madrid , Spain   58
21    Esbjerg Golf Club , Frederik Dreyer (1921) , Esjberg , Jutland , Denmark   60
22    Real Sociedad de Golf Neguri , Javier Arana Ybarra (1911) , Bilbao , Basque Country , Spain   63
23   Hilversumsche Golf Club , Del Court van Krimpen + H. Burrows (1910) , Hilversum , Noord Holland , Netherlands   67
24   Crans sur Sierre, Crans, Suisse; Freemantle, Nicholson, Ballesteros   69
25   Hossegor Golf Club , Jim Morrison + Tom Simpson (1929) , Cote d'Argent , Aquitaine , France   81
26    Eindhovensche Golf Club , Harry S. Colt, Alison & Morrison (1930) , Eindhoven , Noord Brabant , Netherlands   82
27   Royal Antwerp Golf Club , Willie Park Jr. (1913) & Tom Simpson (1929) , Antwerpen , Flanders , Belgium   88
28   Royal Golf Club des Fagnes , Tom Simpson (1930) , Spa , Liege , Belgium   92
29    Hardelot Golf Club (Les Pins course) , Tom Simpson (1905) , nr. Boulogne , Cote d'Opale , Nord Pas de Calais , France   95

[Cristian]

..... I do not know anything about Bled or Esbjerg.......

[Brian Joines]

I am not familiar with Golf les Bordes and was surprised to see it at #1.

One look at the aerial and it's obvious why it isn't discussed more on here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=golf+les+bordes&hl=en&ll=47.732223,1.680436&spn=0.017925,0.046349&hq=golf+les+bordes&radius=15000&t=h&z=15&vpsrc=6

[Cristian]

I am not familiar with Golf les Bordes and was surprised to see it at #1.

One look at the aerial and it's obvious why it isn't discussed more on here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=golf+les+bordes&hl=en&ll=47.732223,1.680436&spn=0.017925,0.046349&hq=golf+les+bordes&radius=15000&t=h&z=15&vpsrc=6

Don't you love the "raquet de tennis" hole? 

[Adam Lawrence]

..... I do not know anything about Bled or Esbjerg.......

Esbjerg I haven't seen, but Bled's Kings course is interesting and well routed on an excellent piece of land. It could be very good indeed, given a sympathetic renovation that focused on bunkers - which are basically all flat circles at the moment - and greens. It was originally laid out in the thirties, according to Christoph Meister by an Austrian called Rudolf von Gelmini-Kreuzhof. Was lost during the war; local enthusiasts kept nine holes in play for many years and Don Harradine restored it to eighteen in 1973 - I think but am not sure to the original routing. Given a bit of investment it has lots of potential.

[Tom_Doak]

Cristian:

Thanks for paring down the ranking to the Classic courses of the continent.  I'll use that as a reference if our European projects get going and I can justify the time for a more extensive golf trip there.

What are the two or three best old courses [in your estimation] that did not make the top 100 list?

[Paul_Turner]

Some of the dates and architectural attributions are way off.   De Pan in 1894!? Pretty worthless list.

[Cristian]

Cristian:

Thanks for paring down the ranking to the Classic courses of the continent.  I'll use that as a reference if our European projects get going and I can justify the time for a more extensive golf trip there.

What are the two or three best old courses [in your estimation] that did not make the top 100 list?

I haven't played all of them, but Sart-tilman near Liege, Belgium (Simpson), and Toxandria (Colt, Morrison) near Breda are courses with some really nice classic holes. Also in the Netherlands Rosendael is worth checking out; 9 holes from 1908 (the oldest existing holes in the Netherlands, the land owner is credited with the design) and 9 from Frank Pennink in 1975; some holes will raise an eyebrow, but there are some beautiful holes as well that could have fooled many a for a Colt.

In France I quite liked Cannes Mandelieu (Colt). Also heard good things about St Cloud (in Paris, yes litterally in Paris) and of Frankfurt  in Germany, these two Colt's  I have not played though. The same goes for Colt's  Pedrena near Santander.

Expect some quirk and sometimes scruffy maintenance and also some poor decision making when holes have been altered, but you will encounter some unexpected gems as well.

[Cristian]

Some of the dates and architectural attributions are way off.   De Pan in 1894!? Pretty worthless list.

I noticed the same, it looks like in many cases the club's founding date has been given as the year the course opened and sometimes even the location is incorrect!

[Paul_Turner]

Cristian:

Pedrena:  I really wanted to see for the Colt/Ballesteros history.  The course had some severe greens that honed Seve's genius, but alas the club just redid the greens and I'm not sure how careful they were in keeping their character.

St Cloud is a lot of fun.  The start is gentle with a mix of good subtle holes and a couple of duds, but then it really gets going quite nicely at the 6th and has some strong undulating holes.

Can't work out re the ranking and Puerta de Hierro (Madrid).  Are they ranking the 2nd course above the original?

[Andy Stamm]

Great timing, I literally just finished watching the Seve v Kite Shell match at Pedrena. I think it would have to be of interest. The setting is fantastic (looks to be windy as well) and the course looked very interesting. The green complexes looked very interesting and to encourage a variety of shots. And there were a couple of tee shots that crossed over other holes that I'd love to see in person. On the down side, there were a LOT of lost bunkers, a pretty good number of trees had been allowed to strangle some of the playing areas (although overall there weren't that many trees), and some of the fairways had been narrowed leaving bunkers noticeably stranded in rough. But, the locations of the bunkers were clear as day, so it was pretty easy to imagine how the course would have been. I'd have to think I'd be worth a bit of effort to see the course.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Some of the dates and architectural attributions are way off.   De Pan in 1894!? Pretty worthless list.

I noticed the same, it looks like in many cases the club's founding date has been given as the year the course opened and sometimes even the location is incorrect!

Golf World always do this... Club founding date and then primary architect of course... Always some mistakes but at least they are attempting to list the architect, something most rankings fail to do outside the US...

The classic list just again highlights the strength of the Colt / Allison / Simpson work in France, Belgium and Netherlands...

[Ulrich Mayring]

I don't agree that it makes no sense to rank Doak 6 courses relative to each other. For most golfers that is the type of course they are going to play day in, day out. For me, I'd love to play any of the courses on the above list, if I get a chance. For more average courses there are ones I'd skip, so from a practical point of view a ranking is actually more important between average and slightly better than average.

Ulrich

[Sean_A]

I think Ulrich is correct if someone is using rankings as a guide on where to play.  Doak 5-6 are likely to be the courses which are affordable (bread and butter stuff) and very good. Much of the time Doak 7s and up are quite expensive and/or require extra work to access.

I spose my issue with any Continental ranking is when I see PGA Catalunya top 10 and to a lesser degree Praia del Rey top 50.  If this is the standard then I gotta believe a large majority of these courses are just bread and butter rather than worthy of being ranked as a special place to play.

Ciao 

[Melvyn Morrow]

Like Cocaine, these wish lists of the so called top courses are just feeding the habit of the woolly minded golfer. We all know that they are the result of the accumulation of information based upon the lowest common dominator. So why do we bother? Our first reaction is to rearrange the list into our own preferences.

My going on about carts and distance aids is nothing compared to the boring week in week out listings we get on this site. I would not object, but this site is about GCA not rating of golf courses which is a marketing tool having zero to do with design. Unlike carts which certainly has an impact on design.

If many find my continued concerns regards carts, design etc boring, then let me say that these listings and ratings are killing a site that is meant to be about Golf Course Architecture.

But then as many among you can fool yourselves into believing that you are play golf when using a cart, then chasing the lines of listings may make you believe that you are discussing GCA.

Perhaps the supporters of lists and ratings may feel more at home with the Emperor in this clip 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PzjpkcUaL0

In the end its just all a load of balls, by that I am referring to listings/ratings.

Melvyn 

[Scott Warren]

I'd be amazed if there are 94 courses on the Continent better than Hardelot (Les Pins).

-----

My going on about carts and distance aids is nothing compared to the boring week in week out listings we get on this site.

Don't sell yourself short Melvyn, you're easily as tiresome as ratings lists!

[Mark Pearce]

Ulrich (and Sean), check the definition of Doak 6s.  Very, very few golfers get to play these day in, day out, nor are they the bread and butter courses for any but a very privileged few.  There's enough Doak rating inflation goes on amongst our overseas cousins without two sane judges like you two engaging in it.

[Alfonso Erhardt]

The "classic" list should by all means include Pedreña, in Santander.

The dates are a mess, Puerta de Hierro's golf course is from 1914 and Neguri is from 1961 (the 1911 date corresponds to a golf course in a different location).

Paul,

Regarding Puerta de Hierro, the course that is included is the one where they used to play the tour events (Upper Course).  It has holes from Colt (10), Simpson (3) and Harris (5). The "newer" course is less well known as it hasn't hosted any events and the club is very restrictive on outside play. This one has holes from Colt (3), Simpson (6), Harris (1) and Kyle Philips (.

Regards,

[Gary Slatter]

my favourite, Ville de Este,  comes in 49th!   it`s worth playing, great in September.

some very enjoyable golf in Europe, dislike seeing it panned, some great settings, classy golf. 

[Ulrich Mayring]

There's a few duds in front of Villa d'Este, but I think at #49 it's about right. The travesty is that I Roveri is in front of it as apparently the best course in Italy. In my mind that is Rome's Acquasanta and perhaps Florence's Ugolino coming in second. I'd also put Menaggio & Cadenabbia ahead of Villa d'Este.

I'd also second Scott in saying that Hardelot Les Pins at #95 is a complete joke. It belongs right up there with the best Simpsons in Belgium.

Esbjerg at #60 is an interesting choice. It definitely is a championship course with many heathland holes. But nearby Fano and Blavandshuk are much more charming in my mind. I'd put them ahead of Esbjerg.

Ulrich

Esbjerg:


Split fairway at Blavandshuk:

[Frank Pont]

Cristian:

Thanks for paring down the ranking to the Classic courses of the continent.  I'll use that as a reference if our European projects get going and I can justify the time for a more extensive golf trip there.

What are the two or three best old courses [in your estimation] that did not make the top 100 list?

I haven't played all of them, but Sart-tilman near Liege, Belgium (Simpson), and Toxandria (Colt, Morrison) near Breda are courses with some really nice classic holes. Also in the Netherlands Rosendael is worth checking out; 9 holes from 1908 (the oldest existing holes in the Netherlands, the land owner is credited with the design) and 9 from Frank Pennink in 1975; some holes will raise an eyebrow, but there are some beautiful holes as well that could have fooled many a for a Colt.

In France I quite liked Cannes Mandelieu (Colt). Also heard good things about St Cloud (in Paris, yes litterally in Paris) and of Frankfurt  in Germany, these two Colt's  I have not played though. The same goes for Colt's  Pedrena near Santander.

Expect some quirk and sometimes scruffy maintenance and also some poor decision making when holes have been altered, but you will encounter some unexpected gems as well.

Nothing left of the original at Frankfurt, all greens and bunkers were renovated/changed a few years ago and bear no resemblance anymore to the original Colt greens. Same happened at Club zur Vahr, a von Limburger course near Bremen.

[Tom_Doak]

In the main edition of Golf World there is a 7 page interview with Tom Doak.  Tom, were you surprised to be interviewed in such depth in light of your only having one design in Europe at this time?  Can you share an update regarding the 3 new holes at the Renaissance Club?
 

Bill:

I have not seen this interview yet, and can't find a link online anywhere.  Please save me a copy if you can.

Did I say anything stupid?

There's a brief update about The Renaissance Club on our web site, but only one picture so far.  We built four new greens in August and they were seeded in mid-September; should be ready to incorporate into the existing course in the spring of 2013.  Eric Iverson and Kye Goalby did all of the shaping work.

[Mark Pearce]

Bill,

You're right on the money about the Bracken course.  Just utterly horrid.

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