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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 03:09:44 PM »
George,

Perhaps a dumb question, but does #13 at Tamarack qualify?  I believe it plays as a par 5 from the member tees but a par 4 from the tips.  While technically not a dogleg, the use of the canted fairway and the bunkering would seem to conform to type.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 03:11:48 PM by Jud Tigerman »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 05:10:11 PM »
Jud, I don't remember the hole and generally if you looked at it today, it probably has been altered from the original.

I'll see how old an aerial or drawing I have. These usually only can be identified from the original, design.

Stay tuned
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 06:10:16 PM »
I have the Banks concept drawing and great aerial from 1934 and nothing on the course seems to fit the Prize Dog Leg strategy.

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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 11:53:46 AM »
Wondering if #2 at Lookout was to be the Prize Dogleg there. I have the original drawing; looks a lot like what has been posted in this thread. But it's downhill; then up hill. Was to have been the 18th hole in the original plan.
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Dave Greene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2011, 07:38:06 PM »
George,
I would argue that the 6th hole at Southampton Golf Club is a pretty close rendition of Raynor's Prize Dogleg. It needed some tweaking which we have done but the bones were there all along IMHO. The  first set of bunkers on the inside/left of the dogleg now have some fairway routing in and around them. A new bunker about 30 or so yards in front of the green and well into the fairway was a added as the topography just yelled out for it to be there in perfect placement. I agree the hole does not have the traditional length but we do not have the largest piece of land to work with so perhaps it was made to fit. It can play long at times and it is not an easy hole to play.Just my thoughts. As a side note when does the book on Raynor come out?
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2011, 01:07:03 PM »
As a side note when does the book on Raynor come out?
 
Dave - hard to say. I work on it in spurts. The course reviews number near 100 and there is a lot of info to put together - and much of the course information keeps shifting as more and more information surfaces or courses he never got credited for, surface (North Shore - Nassau - Riddles Bay - Olympic and many more)

Then there are courses with little definitve information - example: Castle Habour by Charles Banks - a couple courses n South America - a private estate course for William Strauffer in New Orleans

Be sure I want to get the story out there - this story is too important and the "Raynor story" is what started me off in the interesting change of direction I have taken over the past, near 25 years.

Need a publisher but that should not be a prob given the other book
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Dave Greene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2011, 03:30:13 PM »
George,

Good luck getting the book together. It sounds like a moving target to gather so much information. Where do you think the best version of Raynor's Prize Dogleg is?
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herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2011, 06:43:10 PM »
I'm going to try to post a collection of the plans from LMGC by Raynor here:

<table style="width:194px;"><tr><td align="center" style="height:194px;background:url(https://picasaweb.google.com/s/c/transparent_album_background.gif) no-repeat left"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2NyIUPtpP1I/Tp9M5sK_3GE/AAAAAAAABv8/wqs22vsCEK8/s160-c/LMGCBySethRaynor.jpg" width="160" height="160" style="margin:1px 0 0 4px;"></a></td></tr><tr><td style="text-align:center;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px"><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite" style="color:#4D4D4D;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;">LMGC by Seth Raynor</a></td></tr></table>
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herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2011, 06:44:40 PM »
If you click on the second of the embedded links, it works:
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">
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Alex Lagowitz

Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2011, 07:25:59 PM »
Quote from: Doug Stein on October 19, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
If you click on the second of the embedded links, it works:
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">
Doug,
The link still does not work.
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2011, 10:54:49 AM »
Dave Green:

I'm not sure is a "pure" one left - I think I would have been aware because it is one of my favorite long hole strategies as i said above

The two best ones that were built were the original, the 6th at Lido and the 9th at Ocean Links (both NLE).
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2011, 01:38:35 PM »
Help!
The link I posted does work for me; even in the post that says it does not work.
You guys will love these pictures- I want you to see them, Raynor fans!
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herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2011, 01:40:40 PM »
Quote from: Alex Lagowitz on October 19, 2011, 07:25:59 PM
Quote from: Doug Stein on October 19, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
If you click on the second of the embedded links, it works:
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">
Doug,
The link still does not work.

It should now! Let me know!
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herrstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg-now LMGC plans
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2011, 10:16:09 PM »
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David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2011, 12:32:15 PM »
Try this, which has a good view on18 in the plan, suggested as the Prize Dog Leg

https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite#5665331500179146226

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The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Alex Lagowitz

Re: Raynor's Prize Dogleg
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 04:59:06 PM »
Quote from: David Harshbarger on October 23, 2011, 12:32:15 PM
Try this, which has a good view on18 in the plan, suggested as the Prize Dog Leg

https://picasaweb.google.com/fdstein/LMGCBySethRaynor?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite#5665331500179146226


From the picture, I does look like a raynor prize dogleg
The cross bunkers off the tee seem very portentous  ;D
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