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Duncan Cheslett

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Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« on: September 19, 2011, 02:16:33 AM »
I had a very interesting conversation yesterday with my playing partner in the final major of our season. He's a good single handicap player who has played on courses across the UK over many years.

Discussion turned to the difficulty in retaining members and attracting new ones to the club. The answer, he asserted, was to make the course easier and fairer. More 'golfer-friendly' was his phrase.

Sensing the doubt in my face, he backed this up with some pretty good arguments;

The average handicap for a club golfer in the UK is around 16. Including nomadic and recreational players this means that the overwhelming majority of people who consider themselves golfers (and are therefore potential customers of golf clubs) seldom if ever break 90.

The money to support golf lies with the hackers yet courses are set up to challenge the elite. Make courses more friendly to the average golfer and they will be encouraged to play more golf and join a club on whose course they enjoy playing and scoring well. Giving the customer what they want is simple good business.

He took his already impressively thought-out argument to the pro tour, too. When we watch the top pros on the TV after our hack round our local course we want to see birdies - not guys playing sideways out of impossible rough or dropping out of water.

I found myself agreeing wholeheartedly with what had started to become a rant!

On returning to the clubhouse I glanced at the framed copy of MacKenzie's rules of golf architecture and realised that little is new in this world...


Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2011, 02:39:43 AM »
Duncan - I agree with your friend. We (the runners of golf courses) are in the entertainment business and our job is to make people enjoy their time.... and that equals repeat business.

I looked at Cog Hill last night and thought "all those bunkers, why... the pros wont be going in them...so they are for the duffers who dont need to be punished anyway"

I have no doubt that everytime a player plays badly there is a chance it will be his last game.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Mark Pearce

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2011, 03:58:15 AM »
I have no doubt that everytime a player plays badly there is a chance it will be his last game.
I'd have given up years ago if that was the case!

Seriously,  I'm giving a lot of thought to changing clubs at the moment.  I like to think I'm a decent 12/13 handicapper but it has struck me that I don't get much pleasure from playing a home course that, whilst not brutally tough, sets what the old timers might have considered to be a stern examination.  It is short on "fun" shots but long on demanding good driving and good long and mid-irons.  Scott MacPherson's Close House is 20 minutes down the road and sets a different challenge.  Scores in the recent Northumberland Champion of Champions competition (for local club champions) suggests it's a tough round but having played it recently it's full of challenging, fun tee shots and the reward for driving well is to get lots of short iron approaches to large, undulating, fun greens.  There are other issues to consider of course (cost, where my mates play, convenience (my current club is <15 minutes drive from the office) but from a golfing point of view, fun wins out.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 05:44:33 AM »
Duncan,

Homogenizing the challenge to accomodate the mediocre to poor golfer will have the opposite effect.

Making courses fair or more fair will result in the wholesale disfiguration of golf courses.

Part of the lure of the game is its difficulty.

We all attempt shots well beyond our ability........... WHY ?

Is inflating our abilities an inherent element of the game and at the heart of the lure of the game ?

Interestingly enough, golfers don't want to play the easiest courses, they want to play the more difficult courses, the Winged Foot's, The Bethpage Black's, the Muirfield's and the Carnoustie's.

Mitigating the challenge will dull the lure.

If golf was easy, NO ONE would play it.

It's the challenge that brings us to the first tee.

It's the challenge and its universal application that bonds us as golfers.

If you sat next to a stranger, who was also a golfer, and you began discussing golf, you would soon form a bond, borne I believe, out of the commonality of the challenge we face.  It wouldn't matter if he were a billionairre, pauper, executive, bar tender or retired police officer, we've all experienced the same highs and lows of the game, and that experience is what makes us sympathetic with one another, it's what makes us "fellow" golfers, golfers who have shared the agony and ecstasy of the game, it's what bonds us.

Remove that challenge and you eradicate the very core of the game.

So, go tell your friend that he "just doesn't get it"  The worst thing you could do would be to make the game "more fair".

Take away the bunkers, elevated greens, rough, water, different lies, variety and challenge and you're left with a polo field with a tee at one end and a hole at the other.  Yeah, golfers will flock to play that one.

Ben Stephens

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 05:45:27 AM »
Depends on how you define penal. I think it is important to have variation on a golf course to add interest in the game and bringing people back to play again. A few penal holes, a few strategic holes, 1 or 2 'easy' holes (ie wide fairways or flat greens etc) 1 or 2 'hard' holes (Long or tight or small green or undulations). One example of that is Brancaster - I have never had so much fun on a golf course as Brancaster because of its variation of holes - if this was near to a city or a public course - lots of people would play it.

Cog Hill to me was a one dimensional penal course and I can't believe it is a public course it is relentless like Oakland Hills (South). One wonders which of the Cog Hill courses is used the most! On the overhead there was a course alongside the Dubsdread course that had no bunkers!!!

The BMW Championship is at Crooked Stick next year! - so it should be more interesting to watch than Cog Hill

Cheers
Ben

Ben Stephens

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2011, 06:02:52 AM »
Duncan,

Homogenizing the challenge to accomodate the mediocre to poor golfer will have the opposite effect.

Making courses fair or more fair will result in the wholesale disfiguration of golf courses.

Not necessarily - it opens the game up to attract an wider range of golfers that clubs. course owners, local council could gain more revenue. It is important that there are courses for different levels of golfers - easy / medium and hard.

Part of the lure of the game is its difficulty.

The other part is playability

We all attempt shots well beyond our ability........... WHY ?

Some of us believe that we can do it and take a risk look at Lefty he is never conservative

Is inflating our abilities an inherent element of the game and at the heart of the lure of the game ?

Interestingly enough, golfers don't want to play the easiest courses, they want to play the more difficult courses, the Winged Foot's, The Bethpage Black's, the Muirfield's and the Carnoustie's.

The majority of the golfers in the world want to play 'social' golf playing around average diffculty golf course, not take on the challenge of the more difficult courses - they will only play the difficult courses once or twice to experience it why they want to make it easier for themselves. Very few would want to play the more difficult courses every day.

Mitigating the challenge will dull the lure.

If golf was easy, NO ONE would play it.

A lot more would play it

It's the challenge that brings us to the first tee.

Not always true - sometimes it is matches against a friend or opponents that brings us on the first tee whatever golf course you play on. I have been challenged by my friends who rarely play golf to play a par 3 event and my handicap is to only use one club the whole way round!!!

It's the challenge and its universal application that bonds us as golfers.

There are other ways that bonds us as golfers - it is the company that you are playing with - golf is a very social game and the course caters us to be able to play a match.

If you sat next to a stranger, who was also a golfer, and you began discussing golf, you would soon form a bond, borne I believe, out of the commonality of the challenge we face.  It wouldn't matter if he were a billionairre, pauper, executive, bar tender or retired police officer, we've all experienced the same highs and lows of the game, and that experience is what makes us sympathetic with one another, it's what makes us "fellow" golfers, golfers who have shared the agony and ecstasy of the game, it's what bonds us.

True

Remove that challenge and you eradicate the very core of the game.

So, go tell your friend that he "just doesn't get it"  The worst thing you could do would be to make the game "more fair".

More fair??, in the UK over the last 20 odd year that I have played golf I have noticed how greenkeepers have narrowed the fairways, brought the rough to the edge of the greens as opposed to short areas around the greens as well as speeding up greens that were designed for slower speeds. The worst thing about the current the setting up of the courses it has increased slow play because of lost balls and more shots being taken and more time taken to read the lines on the greens.

Take away the bunkers, elevated greens, rough, water, different lies, variety and challenge and you're left with a polo field with a tee at one end and a hole at the other.  Yeah, golfers will flock to play that one.

That is taking it a bit too far - it is all about subtle changes like more run off areas which actually makes it easier for the weaker player and more challenging for the established player. Widening of the fairways in certain areas will help and have 6 easy / 6 medium / 6 hard pin positions every round, slow down the greens and make them smoother. Cog Hill did not have anywhere to go knowing where to miss in case it was relentless.


« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 06:04:45 AM by Ben Stephens »

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2011, 06:37:40 AM »

Duncan

Interesting point of view, but I fear it has more to do with perception of what we have come to understand golf means. By that I am saying that many of us in conjunction with the public at large have an expectation that golf is represented by what is seen at The Opens and other Majors. Alas I believe this is another departure from the traditional ways of the game because golf in not all about the aerial game or equally achieving a low score. I may go one step further to say that this has become the modern interpretation of what golf is all about.

The modern golfer has lost focus on what golf is and means in the most singular of pursuits that of a low score. All is sacrificed to achieve that aim, yet that is not what golf is actually all about. We have forgotten, we have all but turned our back on what makes golf, GOLF. Believing adamantly that it is all about achieving the lowest score, but that is only part of the game which has been allowed to overshadow what actually makes the game, that of playing the course, taking on the challenge of both Nature and Designer by navigating the course to the best of our abilities. It’s reading the GCA, it’s plotting out the line to the Hole while avoiding or accepting the test of the hazards protecting that route. However with the aid of technology most of this can be overcome via an aggressive aerial game, defeating the very concept of the original game. Penal, Hell some course have been nearly rendered as lame ducks.

We have forgotten that it’s about traversing the course taking on or avoiding hazards subject to our confidence in our own ability of pushing ourselves to learn more and thus improve our skills. Nevertheless this is the heart and soul of the game, it’s what makes it tick, it is what pushes the golfer and makes him think as well as develops his creative skills. It is for me what made the game so interesting in the first place, you need to plan your shots and not go wham bam thank you Mam that the modern equipment Accommodates so well. And let’s not forget the aids available to minimise thinking.

Golf is not taught these days, all that seems to be conveyed is technique of grip and how to strike the ball, hardly any mention of GCA, how to face, let alone work out the approach to the pin from the Tee. We have moved into the realms of technology, master that while not forgetting to keep abreast of all the latest high tech equipment and gadgets and irrespective of real skill you may well muddle through. Sorry, but that’s not golf in my eyes, that in my eyes is throwing in the towel before the game has even started.

Nevertheless the modern golfer is not finished yet, if his skill levels are next to zero or just poor he can and does blame the course, saying it is just too penal. Sorry, that’s just plain bollocks, it’s the result of turning your back on learning, of not really taking time to understand or to take an in depth interest in the finer arts of the game.

Do not believe, me then go out and look at the course(s), look at the options available to you and that for the lesser gifted player.  If one but just stops and THINKS, utilising a little bit of planning, the course has many possibilities for the novice or the average handicapped player. But the problem is that many want to walk before they can run, they want to perform outside their skill level and then refuse to face the consequences of their action, but instead of blaming themselves, its easier to blame the severity of the course, its just too penal is their excuse. Problem is that many agree because they never knew that golf was more that the achievement of a low score.

We also need to look at the golf Courses and also their location.  There are courses that are physically challenging to a walker let alone a walking golfer, it will and does sap energy from the walker, but that also part of the game and allowances must be made, be it shorter drives, more accurate chips or simply more limited distance ground hugging shots. Surely it must help if we try to learn the game before trying to play it.

We can, if so inclined, excuse the newer younger golfer (although much harder if you are an experienced average scoring older player) as they are never taught the refinements of the game. They are introduced from the start with modern technology in the form of equipment, the need not to walk or even think with the use of electronic devices. So there we have it in a nut shell, the lacking of the knowledge of the full extent of how the game is played linked with the requirement not to think All thanks to the aids, which deprives the modern golfer of ever experiencing the joy of a good game regardless of his/her score.

Penal, it’s in the mind, because IMHO the courses nowadays can hardly be accused of being penal in the true sense of the word.         
 
Melvyn     

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2011, 06:46:42 AM »
It's getting a balance right of what is acceptable and what is over the top in the challenge. Water is very acceptable to many golfers, they seem to see the errant shot as their fault and if they carry the water thats a great reward/pleasure. Losing a ball in long rough is still their errant shot but they might lose their ball might find it situation does nothing to making the game great in their eyes.

I think its hard to design a golf course today that caters for all tastes and abilities. The range with the tee shot is probably 150 yards for an ok player 175 through to 325 for a banger.... who do you bunker for, multiple tees, topography change, walks back to tees and forward to tees are all difficult factors trying to accomodate a 150 yard range from tee...I think it cant be done and we probably need to accept certain courses are too tough for many and some courses are too easy for a few. Grassed bunkers are one area where their use as a hazard address some areas of defence for the better player (he is not hindered too much by sand) yet the lesser play is not harshly penalized. This is a cheapish way that can suit both standards of play.

Flat polo fields will not work and there needs to be some bite in a golf course, but we all like making pars and the occasional birdie.

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jim_Coleman

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2011, 07:35:10 AM »
    I fight the urge to mediocritise my course all the time.  One mantra calls for easing the rough and slowing the greens to patronize the majority of players who "want to have fun."  I believe great golf courses should be maintained as great golf courses, and I believe my course is a great course.  There are few, if any, great, easy golf courses.  People play/join great courses because they're great, not because they're playable.  The fun is playing well on a great course.  Others play/join "playable" golf courses because that's what they enjoy.  There's room in the world for both.  But please, don't dummy down the great courses.  Would Oakmont be better with slower greens?  Would Merion be better with lighter rough?  Would TOC be better with shallower bunkers?  Not in my mind.  Are they for everyone?  Probably not.  But they are the great courses, and should be maintained as such.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2011, 07:42:18 AM »
It's all about interest in the end.  Difficult courses can be fun, if there are challenging, manageable shots to play.  Easy courses can be boring, if the shots don't challenge or have any interest.  Relying on thick rough and narrow fairways may make a course hard but is unlikely to make it fun.  I don't mind if my attempt to take on a difficult shot results in my ball resting in a deep pot bunker.  I do mind if it results in me taking 5 minutes to realise I can't find it in the thick rough.  For me that's why Muirfield is fun, because for all its reputation asa ball eater you do tend to find your ball reasonably quickly or know immediately that you'd better put another in play.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2011, 08:19:22 AM »
Given one shot to pull off, without an alternative, is at the heart of the demise in participation. The challenge is not lessened on a great course where Mackenzie's principles are upheld.

People will give up the game if they feel as though they never have a chance. One dimensional golf courses yield that.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2011, 08:25:59 AM »
Here's an example of "playability renovations"....

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46508.0.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Anthony Gray

Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2011, 08:26:35 AM »

  Overly penel courses are no fun period. I don't want to feel beat up at the end of a round. I do not want to travel half way around the world to get beat up either and pay for it.

  Anthony

 

Terry Lavin

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 08:32:22 AM »
I agree with Pat Mucci that softening or dumbing down difficulty as a part of the game is a slippery slope architecturally speaking. The penal style of architecture is fairly florid in the American pro game. That seems undeniable. Technology has gotten to the point that a 7700 yard course, in and of itself, supplies no meaningful challenge the best in the game. The response of hosts and some architects is to create more hazards with pinching deep bunkers on both sides if the fairway, forced carries over water on 260 yard par 3 holes and every other manifestation of mischief in an avowed effort to defend pars. Then the players bitch and moan that it's no fun and we wind up with grindfest golf where players try to eke out par after par.  All this is seen as necessary because those in power don't have the balls to rein in the ball.

For the rest of us, the problem seems less extreme because most minimalist designs seem to cater to the mid handicapper who wants to have fun playing this game. Here the buzzword is options which can mean alternative lines of play or simply bailout areas which keeps us slappers in play.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:34:39 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 08:37:36 AM »
Duncan,

Homogenizing the challenge to accomodate the mediocre to poor golfer will have the opposite effect.

Making courses fair or more fair will result in the wholesale disfiguration of golf courses.

etc

etc


Take away the bunkers, elevated greens, rough, water, different lies, variety and challenge and you're left with a polo field with a tee at one end and a hole at the other.  Yeah, golfers will flock to play that one.

Patrick,

I think you're missing the point somewhat.

No-one is ever going to advocate dull, boring flat golf courses. All golfers, no matter what level of ability, want interesting challenges, variety, and preferably some scenic beuaty when they play golf.

Speaking as one of the high handicap hackers who form the majority of golfers across the world, what we don't want are forced 200 yard carries from the tee that will never trouble the elite player, bunkers where a well-hit shot inevitably lands you in another bunker,  bunkers on short holes that cannot even be seen from the tee by first-time visitors, areas of rough that is so impregnable that a marginally off-target drive results in a lost ball and a long trudge back to the tee to the exasperation of the group(s) behind, internal OOBs placed for no better reason than to make a hole 'harder' and devilish pin placements on slopes that result in 3 putts for almost anyone who doesn't place their approach shot within 15 feet.

These are just a few examples of features that are routinely incorporated into courses to increase their difficulty, but which do nothing to improve the architectural merit or the appeal of the course to players. Stripping these out will not diminish the course in any way but will improve the playing experience of the majority of golfers.

I am not talking here about elite championship courses. Make those as hard as you like for tournaments, for members who like their golf punishing, and for visitors who like to experience this kind of golf once in a while. If more everyday courses are going to remain in business however, they need to offer an experience that is enjoyable to their customers.






Giles Payne

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2011, 08:38:42 AM »
I think that what we need to look at what places like TOC offer - you don't loose your ball but you get plenty of challenging shots if you get yourself into the wrong place.
The obsession with green speeds is unheatlhy in that if taken to its extreme it removes fun from the game, especially where you are having to flatten fantastic old greens. Putting should challenge ability to read line and pace - if greens become too quick and contours have to be removed becasue of it I think things have gone too far.
As with most things, balance is what creates the best solution. In all walks of life it seems that people need to go far too far before they realise that you can actually go too far. The majority of people I know don't want to loosing balls all over the place or hacking out of knee high rough - fine to get penailised if you go somewhere you shouldn't, but at least let them have a shot to get back into the hole. Seve's brilliance was shown from his recoveries from being in horrible places but at least they gave him a chance to put club to ball. Another example would be Phil M's shot from under the trees in the pine straw.
Great architecture is not about great lakes and long rough, it is about making the course playable to most levels but difficult to score low on.

Sean_A

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 08:43:10 AM »
Would Merion be better with lighter rough?  

Jim

What would be best is pushing the fairways out to meet the bunkers.  However, if the fairways are kept at their present width, yes, the course would be better with lighter rough.

While I fully understand and accept that there are some, and should be some courses a proficient player will not fair well on, but at some point folks will have to realize that the modern concept of a championship course does not in the least advance the notion of great architecture.  

Ciao    
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 08:47:43 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 08:43:39 AM »

There is a big difference between an exhausting course and playing a course without the sufficient skill level to know what one is doing.  A player committed to trying to come away with a low score must take responsibilities for his game and not blame the course for his own inadequacies.

Hard is not penal

Melvyn

Mike McGuire

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2011, 09:03:15 AM »
Depends on what kind of member/customer you want.

If you want "golfers" then keep the challenge.

If you want "players" (people who just want an open field to bat around their ball) then make it easy. I see this happening at our club.

In the end if you go the "we will take anybody who writes a check" players your club will suffer - players will not fill up your events and will be the first ones to go when times get hard.

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2011, 09:05:28 AM »
in the US, one of the biggest problems we have are people playing from the wrong tee because they want to see "all of the golf course"

Whether it is a duffer with too many confidence or a senior who refuses to move up, this is the problem for so much frustration.

I think many (though definitely not all) of these problems go away if people simply play the correct tee.  And yes, this means that a 30 year old 25 handicap should be playing a 5700 yard golf course.

The other issue is that for many courses, especially resort courses in very competitive tourist area, the slope rating has been a badge of honor.   When deciding where to play a $150-$200 round of golf, many golfers assume the 148 slope course must be a better experience than a 129 slope one.




Jason Topp

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2011, 10:42:37 AM »
If that were the case wouldn't the tee sheets at easier courses be more full than at challenging courses? 

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2011, 11:01:36 AM »
in the US, one of the biggest problems we have are people playing from the wrong tee because they want to see "all of the golf course"

Whether it is a duffer with too many confidence or a senior who refuses to move up, this is the problem for so much frustration.

Sorry, but I find this argument to be poorly motivated. I believe if you have players exhibiting this behavior, they are hard core golfers and will not be put off by most golf courses unless they are stupidly penal like it would appear Cog Hill was.

I think many (though definitely not all) of these problems go away if people simply play the correct tee.  And yes, this means that a 30 year old 25 handicap should be playing a 5700 yard golf course.

And I think playing the "correct" tee and creating multiple "correct" tees is a dumb idea that plagues our current courses.

The other issue is that for many courses, especially resort courses in very competitive tourist area, the slope rating has been a badge of honor.   When deciding where to play a $150-$200 round of golf, many golfers assume the 148 slope course must be a better experience than a 129 slope one.




"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Lou_Duran

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2011, 11:07:41 AM »
It would be great if a large organization would conduct a longitudinal study of the common factors driving interest in golf.  I doubt that short, "wide" courses that offer low resistance to scoring would rank highly.

Anecdotally, I believe the suggestion of this thread is flawed.  As a starter during my college years at Ohio State, I tried hard to smooth the amount of play during busy days on the two courses, the difficult, "penal" Scarlet, and the highly enjoyable, "golfer-friendly" Gray.  It was impossible.  Even the weakest hitting seniors and the ladies took offense when I suggested that the Gray's first tee was wide open, instead insiting on waiting for their time and a five+ hour round on Scarlet.

In general, modern golf architecture, for all the grief it gets on this site, offers great variety and flexibility.  In Texas, for example, the infamous Ram Rock course at Horseshoe Bay is an SOB from the back tees (under 7000 yards), but very playable from the next set (around 6400).  If we choose to play the "wrong" set of tees (says who, but that's another issue, isn't it?), that's easily correctable without having to force someone else's preferences on the rest of us.

Having said all this, I think that Jeff Brauer and other architects of his ilk who design courses with considerable scale which tend to look harder than they play are onto something.  These courses can be set up to challenge the stick while still able to hold the frequent company and charity scramble events.

Perhaps we should look outside of golf for what might be ailing the game.   May I suggest that economics driven by politics have a bigger impact?  Golf, IMO, depends on disposable income AND confidence in the future.  Demographically, the game should be in an upswing.  But when safe investments have a negative yield after inflation and taxes, many are worried about outliving their money, and golf is hardly a necessity.

I know several very active "core" golfers who have given up the game for financial reasons.  What concerns me is that not one of them believes that golf will ever be an important factor in their lives again even if their financial situation improves.    



Philippe Binette

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2011, 11:21:57 AM »
not necessarily penal design is killing golf.

i think over-designed golf courses are killing golf.

a lot of designs are made by assumptions from the architect:

OK, the golfer is going to hit it here, so I'll put a bunker there, a lake this way and then they are going to approach from this angle so I'll block this side with a bunker.
you end up with 2 things:
1) a course with 6 lakes and 82 bunkers and no real room around it to play
2) the reality that only 1% of the golfers are able to play the golf course kind of the way the architect thinks the course is going to be played.

more freedom in the design, more room to play means easier courses for the masses, an greatness arrives when an architect can make an open course also tough enough for the best...  think royal melbourne here

Jason Topp

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Re: Are 'Penal' Courses Killing Golf?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2011, 11:28:29 AM »
I think economic factors are a portion of the cause but a pretty small factor.  My guess is that economic factors will ultimately be beneficial by making the game more affordable.  It seems as inexpensive to play the game now as it has been for a long time.  It is also as convienient as it has ever been with a glut of golf courses built in the time period between the mid-80's and 2005.

My view of what is ailing the game is described in the book "Bowling Alone."  I cannot remember the author.  
Basically the point of the book is that participation in group activities has been on the decline since the 50's.  We have changed from a nation of participants to a nation of observers.

According to the author, there are many causes of the decline but the biggest factors are time spent watching television and time spent in a car.


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