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David Ober

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Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« on: July 19, 2011, 04:22:42 PM »
I was justing thinking about this the other day. My new home course (Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, California) has a little b*stard of a hole designated as its 18-handicap. It's short, tight, well-bunkered, and has an interesting, difficult to read green.

It's hole #13, and it plays only 345 or so from the back tees, but it routinely holds up for a skin in our weekly Friday skins game. The game generally attracts between 30 and 40 players, ranging in handicap from +5 (Tom Pernice Jr.) to 10 (max handicap allowed).

How about it? Any other tough little 18-handicap holes out there?

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 05:18:27 PM »
18th hole Hamilton Golf Club, HDCP 18, 456 yard par 4!   Their idea is if a match comes to 18 tied, the lower handicap player should win.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 05:23:41 PM »
The 9th hole at Myopia Hunt Club.  Only 136 yards from the back tee with a postage stamp of a green and coffin-like bunkers on both sides.  If you find your way into one of them, good luck getting up 'n down.  It will require a Mickelsonesque flop shot.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 05:31:10 PM by Ron Csigo »
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Carl Rogers

Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 08:01:27 PM »
11th hole at Riverfront is about 135 from the middle tee, downhill and exposed.  In windless conditions a possible birdie ... but if the wind is up it is easy to miss the green and a bogey or worse is also possible.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 08:42:58 PM »
The 9th hole at Myopia Hunt Club.  Only 136 yards from the back tee with a postage stamp of a green and coffin-like bunkers on both sides.  If you find your way into one of them, good luck getting up 'n down.  It will require a Mickelsonesque flop shot.

Cheecher,

Knowing full well that you can dial up this shot in your sleep - you sir are just bragging!! :D


Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 09:03:38 PM »
Keep in mind that the handicapping of holes is not from "one" as most difficult to "18" as least.  The difficulty factor, which is a key component of assigning handicaps to holes, is based on the relative difficulty of the hole for the scratch (or so) player as compared with the boggy (or so) player.  Lot's of players understand this, but in my experience most do not.  However, that is not to say the question posed is uninteresting or irrelevant.  I point this out for those outsiders who read this board.  One of the most difficult holes in relation to par at my home course is a par 3 that is the 15th handicap.  Why?  In part because it is relatively easier for the bogy player than for the scratch player.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 09:05:55 PM by Carl Johnson »

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 01:51:38 AM »
Keep in mind that the handicapping of holes is not from "one" as most difficult to "18" as least.  The difficulty factor, which is a key component of assigning handicaps to holes, is based on the relative difficulty of the hole for the scratch (or so) player as compared with the boggy (or so) player.  Lot's of players understand this, but in my experience most do not.  However, that is not to say the question posed is uninteresting or irrelevant.  I point this out for those outsiders who read this board.  One of the most difficult holes in relation to par at my home course is a par 3 that is the 15th handicap.  Why?  In part because it is relatively easier for the bogy player than for the scratch player.

You're right, of course, Carl, and I almost put that disclaimer in my post. I guess most bogey golfers will make 3, 4, or 5 on the hole, just as most scratch golfers would, so it makes sense.

I've just never seen a short par 4 that is rated as the 18 handicap hole that yields so few birdies. Very interesting....

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 03:14:17 AM »
The 9th hole at Myopia Hunt Club.  Only 136 yards from the back tee with a postage stamp of a green and coffin-like bunkers on both sides.  If you find your way into one of them, good luck getting up 'n down.  It will require a Mickelsonesque flop shot.

Great little hole, I 'll always remember it
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 09:41:33 AM »
In the UK stroke index is not necessarily a reflection of a hole's difficulty. Much weight is placed on where in the round the hole comes. As an example, here are the stroke indices of the front and back nines of Royal Worlington, a 9-hole course played from the same tees both times round, so the holes should be equally difficult:

1/10. 11/6
2/11. 3/12
3/12. 13/4
4/13. 5/10
5/14. 7/16
6/15. 15/2
7/16. 9/18
8/17. 1/14
9/18. 17/8

Patrick Hodgdon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 10:14:46 AM »
I was justing thinking about this the other day. My new home course (Bear Creek Golf Club in Murrieta, California) has a little b*stard of a hole designated as its 18-handicap. It's short, tight, well-bunkered, and has an interesting, difficult to read green.

It's hole #13, and it plays only 345 or so from the back tees, but it routinely holds up for a skin in our weekly Friday skins game. The game generally attracts between 30 and 40 players, ranging in handicap from +5 (Tom Pernice Jr.) to 10 (max handicap allowed).

How about it? Any other tough little 18-handicap holes out there?

#16 at Interlachen is a very similar hole. It's 311 yards with a sharp dogleg around a good set of trees. (Very, very few long hitters can hit a driver with enough draw to drive the green or over the trees on the corner.) Most play a 200-230 yard club to the fairway to leave themselves 80-120 left. The hole has a very well bunkered fairway that also has 2/3 of it canted right to left causing a lot of pull hooks with a wedge in your hand and the ball above your feet. The green is the most bunkered on the course and is one of the largest with two tiers. It is also one of the hardest greens on the course to both read and putt on with a sharp back to front and right to left slope. (I've seen many good players hit it to two feet and miss the birdie putt) The hole concedes it's fair share of two putt pars and bogeys but very few birdies and quite a few doubles.

From the tee:


The green through the trees in the back left corner:


About 90 yards left on the approach:



« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 10:27:57 AM by Patrick Hodgdon »
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 12:14:57 PM »
The 9th hole at Myopia Hunt Club.  Only 136 yards from the back tee with a postage stamp of a green and coffin-like bunkers on both sides.  If you find your way into one of them, good luck getting up 'n down.  It will require a Mickelsonesque flop shot.

Cheecher,

Knowing full well that you can dial up this shot in your sleep - you sir are just bragging!! :D



Chonger,

If I were in the bragging business, then I would have said that the 13th hole at Seminole is an extremely difficult 18-handicap hole (especially on the first swing of the day).  Uphill, straight into the fan off the Atlantic with a severely sloped green.  Would you agree with that statement, kind Sir?   ;)
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 01:27:31 PM »
The #18 handicap hole at Prairie Dunes is the 15th hole.  Like most of the holes at Prairie Dunes the green is diabolical and that coupled with the fact that the hole is 200yds and uphill gives you what is to me the hardest par 3 hole on the course.

Here is Ran's description:

Fifteenth hole, 200 yards, The Chute,(Press); Press’s own comments make it clear that he thought that the cottonwoods added character and thus he was keen to see them incorporated into the design where possible, namely at the twelfth, fourteenth and here. From in a chute of (now) very tall cottonwoods, the golfer is protected from knowing what the wind will do with his tee ball. Coupled with its length, the green is one of the most frequently missed ones and an up and down is anything but ordinary thanks to the green’s high point being near the front center before it falls away toward a lower back right section. At 4,900 square feet, the golfer may consider this green a relatively small target but indeed it is the largest green at Prairie Dunes, where the average green size is under 4,300 square feet. This is another excellent putting surface and Coore marvels at how well Press’s greens tie in with those of his father’s which are considered among the best in the game.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Difficult 18-Handicap Hole? New
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 02:09:21 PM »
I almost Winnie the Pooh-Poohed this thread, until I thought about Bethpage Green...here she is!

Tee shot...if you look up at the U-shaped notch in the trees right, then straight down to the ground, you can make out the green-front bunker.



Closer up from the tee...Shockingly, it takes a pretty decent poke (about 250 yards) to go through the fairway straight away, but YOU JUST CAN'T HELP taking a crack at the green from the tee!



Far out in the fairway central district...the bunkering comes into view and SOMETHING about the green catches your attention...



Closer in to the green...bunkers bigger, horizontal ridgeline comes clearer into view



From short of the front right bunker



Kevin's putt from the back tier



From the back tier forward...WOWZA!



289 yards...fraught with disaster and speckled with glory.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 02:11:05 PM by Ronald Montesano »
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