Dust versus turf

[Patrick_Mucci]

It seems that most divots at the British Open are clouds of dust, versus the sirloin steak strips of turf seen at American PGA tour courses.

As much as I love and anticipate the arrival of the Masters every spring, there's something uniquely special about the British Open.

To me, it's the WIND, the bunkers, the running nature of the course, the green speeds and the unpredictability of the course conditions each and every day.

Would telecasting more events from the U.K. Have a positive influence on American golf ?

[Sam Morrow]

I agree with everything you say but more events broadcast like this wouldn't help. The American golfer has been brought up on green, lush, water everywhere. It will probably take generations to change this. I am very fortunate my course is a place that likes firm and fast and I just shake my head when other members or daily fee players complain that the course isn't green enough.

[David_Tepper]

Pat -

How much of the European Tour do you watch on the Golf Channel?

The reality is that, aside from the Open, the European Tour plays almost no other events on links courses, even the events that are played in the UK. Many of the events are played on modern, TPC-styled courses that could just as easily be in Florida as being in Spain, France, England or Dubai.

Having Castle Stuart replace Loch Lomond this year as the site for the Scottish Open was certainly a big plus in getting another links (or links-like) course on to the Euro Tour.

DT

  

[Scott Warren]

There aren't really any more events of that style to televise, to be honest. Unless you broadcast the Brit Amateur, Brabazon or the Carnegie Shield!

The fact is that the style, quality and interest of most Euro Tour courses is like their US Tour counterparts.

[Mike_Clayton]

Patrick,

The reality is that The Open and its rotation of courses is all but unique on the European Tour.
You won't see another dusty divot in Europe - aside from the Dunhill event at the end of the year at St Andrews,Carnoustie and Kingsbarns -  unless they televise next weeks Senior Open at Walton Heath or the Women's Open at Carnoustie the week after that.
The next really interesting course you will see is Royal Melbourne at the Presidents Cup.
In is an interesting course for Americans because there are no bunkers in the rough and the greens run all the way to the edges of the bunkers.
If they took notice it would have a positive affect on the mowing patterns on most American golf courses.

[Michael Huber]

A friend of mine has had a long standing policy on eating one hot dog a year.  Usually, the hot dog consumption is usually during a special event, i.e. a baseball game or Independence day or whatever.  My friend really isnt a fan of hot dogs, but for whatever reason, its a tradition to have one a year.

Obviously I'm not in the mind of professional golfers, but I am guessing that a lot of these guys look at the Open Championship as their one hot dog of the year.  They may not like bumpy fairways and landing shots 30 yards in front of the green and such, but they do it once a year and have fun at it.  With that in mind, I don't think they would like to play the traditional links courses on a regular basis: its just not how they are calibrated to play.

[Adam Clayman]

The saddest viewing now comes from Asia. Lush green on designs straight out of the 1980's playbook. China is of course the saddest. Those courses are virtually unwatchable on TV.

[Mike_Clayton]

Adam,

That didn't used to be true. Royal Hong Kong,The Bukit Course at Singapore Island,Royal Selangor,Delhi GC were unique courses with real character. They were staples on the old Asian Tour - not great courses but somewhere between decent and good.
Now they all seem indistinguishable - to the point when they could play every event on the same course and with some adept television commentary viewers wouldn't know.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I referenced telecasts from the [size=18point]U.K.[/size]

The Dunhill at St Andrews was always a treat.

The time difference is probably a big impediment

[Adam Clayman]

Mike, I don't think, we in the states, were privy to those earlier halcyon days. Not on television anyway.

The aspect that I cherish about playing the links is the uncertainty of the lie on differing vegetation. Certainly not the dust they might've produced.

[Adam Lawrence]

Patrick - of the 47 official events on the 2010-2011 European Tour schedule, six of them are in the UK. They are the PGA at Wentworth, the Wales Open at Celtic Manor, the Scottish Open at Castle Stuart (reduced to 54 holes by flooding and landslides), the Open itself, the Johnnie Walker at the Nicklaus-designed Centenary course at Gleneagles, and the Dunhill Links, played at St Andrews, Kingsbarns and Carnoustie at the beginning of October. In addition, here in the UK, we will get limited coverage of the Senior Open at Walton Heath and the Women's Open from Carnoustie. And there may be some coverage of the Walker Cup, too.

Which of those events do you think would be transformational viewing for American golfers?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Adam,

Certainly not an event from a Nicklaus course

TOC, Carnoustie and any other links courses

[Wade Whitehead]

I think it's an issue of control.  Those who play for money can't leave anything to chance.  Wind, rain, bumps, hollows, dust, etc. all present opportunity for unknown.

Typical viewers tune in to watch the best players take control of golf courses, not golf courses take control of players.

I am regularly amazed at how similar European Tour golf courses are (on television, at least) to typical PGA Tour facilities.

I like a more symbiotic experience but I play for fun.  That's fundamentally different.

WW

[Adam Clayman]

Aliss' just said "They're a hearty lot, the members here".

Until American club golfers improve their heartiness, they will never appreciate the dusting.

It's an inherent flaw in our golf. The need for revenue, which leads to accommodating the Haversham's, reducing the pushing of envelopes architecturally and maintenance wise.

Naturally, there are exceptions where clubs pride themselves on their rawness. But they are few.

[Tim Martin]

Aliss' just said "They're a hearty lot, the members here".

Until American club golfers improve their heartiness, they will never appreciate the dusting.

It's an inherent flaw in our golf. The need for revenue, which leads to accommodating the Haversham's, reducing the pushing of envelopes architecturally and maintenance wise.

Naturally, there are exceptions where clubs pride themselves on their rawness. But they are few.

Adam-If the members at Sandwich are not a hearty lot then they won`t be playing much as these are pretty common conditions. Outside of Bandon where in the U.S. are are these types of conditions consistently replicated?

[Patrick_Mucci]

If those bunker configurations were adopted in the U.S. You would hear yhe screaming back in the UK.

The Medalist is one of the few modern clubs to attempt to emulate that style, but I don't think democracy ruled at the Medalist

[Mark Pearce]

Today's conditions are not that common in the UK, that's another myth.  If they were we wouldn't play much golf.  remember that Sandwich is one of the drier parts of the UK.  You wouldn't get those puffs of dust if it rained like today every week.

[Adam Clayman]

Tim, I've played Pacific Grove where I would consider it similar. Some in New Mexico and Northern Colorado. But that was long ago. I believe the examples I could give are all older ones. Showing the influence of the common denominator. And proliferation of irr systems. I call it electing a new pope whenever I see the cloud of dust. usually immediately followed by a few lines from the opening of The Lone Ranger.

I've also seen ideal conditions this spring, when the system doesn't get turned on, the course dries a bit, before the next rain. But only in the spring would that happen because in the summer the water gets applied to avoid the dust from dead looking grass.

[Sean_A]

Today's conditions are not that common in the UK, that's another myth.  If they were we wouldn't play much golf.  remember that Sandwich is one of the drier parts of the UK.  You wouldn't get those puffs of dust if it rained like today every week.

Mark

I disagree.  The conditions of this Open are not in the least unusual at least from experience.  The winds have not been high - 20ish tops - certainly problematical for me, but not harsh for a pro.  Friday was very mild - perfect golfing weather.  The greens look a normal pace - nothing fast for sure.  The fairways look July dry.  Bad (again for me, but not a pro) lies abound in fairways.  A mix of rain and sun.  Sorry, this sort of stuff is weekly golf on links over here.  I haven't seen anything remotely unusual.  Where these guys are really struggling is on the greens.  So many putts not dropping and so many guys leaving putts well short.  Mind you, Sandwich has an excellent set of greens, the second best set of the Open rota behind TOC.  Many are essentially much smaller as targets than the surface area suggests. 

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

Today's conditions are not that common in the UK, that's another myth.  If they were we wouldn't play much golf.  remember that Sandwich is one of the drier parts of the UK.  You wouldn't get those puffs of dust if it rained like today every week.

Mark

I disagree.  The conditions of this Open are not in the least unusual at least from experience.  The winds have not been high - 20ish tops - certainly problematical for me, but not harsh for a pro.  Friday was very mild - perfect golfing weather.  The greens look a normal pace - nothing fast for sure.  The fairways look July dry.  Bad (again for me, but not a pro) lies abound in fairways.  A mix of rain and sun.  Sorry, this sort of stuff is weekly golf on links over here.  I haven't seen anything remotely unusual.  Where these guys are really struggling is on the greens.  So many putts not dropping and so many guys leaving putts well short.  Mind you, Sandwich has an excellent set of greens, the second best set of the Open rota behind TOC.  Many are essentially much smaller as targets than the surface area suggests. 

Ciao

Are you sure you guys both live in the U K? Why the divergence?

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Did you read and understand the word "today's"?  Yes there are days when it chucks down with rain AND blows a gale but they aren't that common.  How often this year have you played golf in conditiond like they had at Sandwich TODAY?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Did you read and understand the word "today's"?  Yes there are days when it chucks down with rain AND blows a gale but they aren't that common.  How often this year have you played golf in conditiond like they had at Sandwich TODAY?

So you mean 18-20 mph with rain?  I get stuck in that crap a few times a year, but I call off games quite a few times when that weather is forecast.  So no, that is not in the least unusual weather.  That isn't to say its common, but it ain't unusual.  Anybody who plays most of their golf on links will get this weather more often than they would like.

Ciao 

[Ken Moum]

Would telecasting more events from the U.K. Have a positive influence on American golf ?

Even if you assume that they'd be on links courses, I cannot imagine that it would have much effect on the average American golfer.

In 2006, Euan Grant, whose then Head Greenkeeper on TOC, told me during my first round on the course that he often asked Americans what they thought of the conditions in St. Andrews.  He said they almost always had positive things to say.  So he followed up with, "Would you accept conditions like this back home in America?"

To which they virtually always said, "No WAY!"

A perfect example is the couple my wife and I travelled with on that trip.  He was excited to make the trip, and his wife was so emotional about him getting the opportunity thanks to my planning that she actually cried the Sunday we arrived and walked past Old Tom's shop on the way to the 18th green.

But they both detested the course conditions.  He's a 6-7 handicapper and bitched for two weeks about not being able to get a club on the ball due to the tight lies.  The only course he liked at all was Nairn, and he spent weeks talking about what a dog-track Brora was.

When we got home, expressed his appreciation for putting the trip together, but soon after said he would never walk on a golf course again, and unequivocally stated that American-style golf was better than U.K. golf.

Ken
K

[Scott Warren]

I believe the difference of opinion between Sean and Mark can be traced to the fact Mark lives on the East coast of England and Sean plays at two links courses on the West coast of the UK.

The West is wetter and wilder than the East (hence the bigger dunes on the West coasts of England and Ireland than on their East coasts).

Sean: I can only speak from my own two years' experience living and playing in London and Kent, but while strong wind were not uncommon at the Kent links, wet weather was extremely uncommon.

[Mark Pearce]

Scott,

I live on the North East coast of England.  It's a lot wetter (and colder) here than Sandwich!  I don't think there is a difference between Sean and me.  We are agreed that conditions like yesterday are not unusual but nor are they common.  We get windy frequently and wet (though not torrential) often but the combination of heavy rain and high winds is not common.  Images some on here conjure up are of UK golfers playing in pouring rain and 20 mph winds every weekend.  That just isn't true.  Occasional days like yesterday happen.  Some of us play, others choose not to.