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Patrick_Mucci

Will the British Open telecast
« on: July 14, 2011, 09:54:16 AM »
Advance "firm & fast" conditions and the American love affair with Emerald Green ?

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 10:09:28 AM »
Pat,

If the past 50 years of telecasts (or even the past 150 years of the Open Championship itself) have not done so, what reason is there to believe that this year will be any different? 
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 10:33:24 AM »
Steve,

A number of factors.

They had a severe drought for quite a while so the off green coloration should be more pronounced.
The rising cost to maintain lush green, fast conditions
The rising cost of water
Drought conditions in parts of the U.S.
And a general trend that includes tree removal that also includes F & F

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 10:55:00 AM »
Whereas each of the factors that you listed is true, only the first is directly related to the telecast itself.  Moreover, whereas the announcers make mention of the playing conditions on a fairly regular basis and have done so for years (though I am currently watching the UK feed on Direct TV and they rarely mention it; they seem to take it for granted), the shift in attitude that you long for will hardly be in response to this, or any particular telecast.  Neither will/can such a cultural shift take immediate effect, in spite of the obvious financial and environmental benefits.  The "advance" that you seek is possible, but these things take time.  I suspect we will both be long gone before such playing conditions are ubiquitous in America.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 11:06:40 AM by Steve Burrows »
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 11:18:06 AM »
Advance "firm & fast" conditions and the American love affair with Emerald Green ?

Should this question be "or" rather than "and?"   It's not easy to have both. 

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 11:51:36 AM »
Patrick - where was the severe drought, Royal St Georges?

We had a very dry March to May period which is why the rough didn't grow, since then there has been plenty of rain certainly no drought. In many ways the course is slightly toothless with benign rough and holding greens (pro holding not amateur holding).

Frankly I was surprised with the scoring this morning, Bjorn scored well but generally the scoring was high. It certainly appears to be getting easier I saw Poulter hit a lovely driver off the deck on 7 and several long hitters were not getting onto the flat part of the fairway. Now they are getting home with irons.
Cave Nil Vino

Bill Brightly

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Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 11:52:33 AM »
Sadly, I bet the average response is something like this: "Geeze, that course looks terrible on TV. Too brown, too wide open."

I am watching and thinking how poorly it translates on television unless you are already a knowledgable fan of links golf. For US parkland golfers, links golf is a slowly acquired taste, at best. Just don't see television changing that. You have to play it to appreciate it, IMO.

Phil McDade

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Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 12:15:33 PM »
Pat:

Royal St. George's this week is postively green compared to Opens at this very course (2003) and Hoylake (2006), which probably will end up with higher ratings than this year, given that Tiger played a major role in both of those and none this year.


Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 12:54:11 PM »
I'd answer No, Patrick.

Soft and mush plays more on the ease of the shot demands, than it does the aesthetic, and, ego will always trump pleasing to the eye.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 12:58:15 PM »
Mark & Phil,

St George's experienced severe drought conditions this year, so much so that the club restricted play and there was great concern that the rough would not provide the typical test.

A good friend, who is a member, advised me of the club's concerns.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 01:40:32 PM »
Pat I can assure you we had a dry spring not a severe drought, there was no shortage of water for tees, greens and fairways. The rough went thirsty and yes the club were concerned about the lack of rough & challenge.
Cave Nil Vino

PCCraig

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Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 01:58:52 PM »
No, it just means for the next couple weeks you'll get a couple extra schmucks hitting "British Open" low 2-irons and bump and run 8-irons into soggy greens where a L Wedge is actually a better play. :)
H.P.S.

Phil McDade

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Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 02:18:20 PM »
Mark & Phil,

St George's experienced severe drought conditions this year, so much so that the club restricted play and there was great concern that the rough would not provide the typical test.

A good friend, who is a member, advised me of the club's concerns.

Patrick:

I don't doubt that, but recent rains have "greened" the course up, and your thread has to do with the "telecast," and whether it might promote a different approach that embraces F&F. My response would be: If the 2003 (Sandwich) and 2006 (Hoylake) British Opens -- both of which are likely to yield higher viewing rates because of Tiger's signficant role in each than this year's -- didn't promote such a change, it's highly unlikely this year's will. 2003 and 2006 were MUCH browner and F&F than this year's Open (first-day impressions, of course) appears to be (Tiger notably declined to use his driver during the entire championship in 2006, so dry was the course that year.)

Addendum:

Here are some videos from the 2006 Open at Hoylake:

Tiger's famous eagle with a 4-iron (and note the overhead shot at 35"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGZtkEzC7fw

A longer verson of above, with a good shot of the 18th hole at 1'15")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx9WS9pR8K4

Sergio on the 3rd hole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k2-r9E0B-8&feature=related

That is one baked-out course.

Compare to this year's conditions at Sandwich; much greener (from photo thread by Philip Gawith):






« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 02:35:05 PM by Phil McDade »

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 02:31:19 PM »
Absolutely not Patrick.

Appearances count, and to many, a lush green course is more attractive. Every April serves up a week of emerald green perfection and blazing colour in flower beds. Four days of dry, off-brown, in some years dusty golf seems attractive to a small percentage of viewers.

You can lead a horse to water, but most will unfortunately elect to pour it onto their fairways and greens...

MM
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 02:40:22 PM »
at, You points are good. I would love for you to be right. However as much as common sense would say Hey stupid, it cheaper, you older members will hot the ball further and it expands shot options, I do not see it happening.  this is a perfect storm too for the course is green and playing firm and fast. lol

Anthony Gray

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 02:50:25 PM »


  Its always a highlight for me,but the average american golfer has never played fast and firm.

  Anthony


Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 02:57:12 PM »
Struggling for new material, Mucci?

How is this year's Open Championship any different than the last 25?

We are not mind readers here  :-\

In short, the telecast will go on just as it always has.  Those of us who love fast and firm golf will enjoy watching just as much as we always have.

And those who think brown is inferior to green will feel the same way about it as they always have.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2011, 12:16:09 AM »
MD,

Not at all

There are trends influencing American golf.

One is the removal of trees.

The other is toward fast and firm

Why wouldn't coloration be part of the latest trend

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2011, 12:27:01 AM »
I heard a radio announcer go on a rant about the "grey" look of Open courses.  He suggested that U.K. clubs should come to Edgewood Tahoe for an education on how a modern course should look and be cared for.  I'm sure he was baiting on a slow summer sports day but it is not exactly a hopeful sign.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 05:27:31 PM »
The broadcast of The Open Championship has no affect on golf in the States. As far as most Americans are concerned this tournament is played on a different planet and has no connection to what they consider "real" golf.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2011, 05:45:59 PM »
I agree with Whitty.  Links and American golf just don't mix.  I would ahve thought all the rich folks taking trips to GB&I these past several decades would have had a greater chance to advance f&f conditions in the States, but it hasn't.  For some reason, Americans are able to box away links conditions as a one off even if they love it and not even think to strive for the same sort of stuff back home.  I find it hard to understand, but I guess its all wrapped up in the many differences between club cultures on each side of pond.  It is what it is.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2011, 06:47:07 PM »

The broadcast of The Open Championship has no affect on golf in the States. As far as most Americans are concerned this tournament is played on a different planet and has no connection to what they consider "real" golf.


Sad but true.

Has anyone ever sat in a grill room with the Open on tv and heard someone say "I wish our course could look like that"? But,I bet each of us has heard the opposite.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2011, 01:02:02 AM »
JME,

But, I wonder if anyone ever said, "I wish my course would PLAY like that.

I see a trend toward fast and firm at a number of prominent courses.

This is usually followed by the mirroring of those trends at the less than prominent courses.

I'm aware of several courses that play Fast and Firm.

Many of you who attended my get together at Mountain Ridge last September witnessed it first hand, so now, the next step would seem to be toward those brownish/yellowish/greenish conditions you see at the British Open
« Last Edit: July 17, 2011, 08:55:05 AM by Patrick_Mucci »

Jamie Van Gisbergen

Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2011, 02:04:13 AM »
Patrick, even though it costs less to maintain courses the links way, they play functionally shorter and so forth, I don't think people in America would accept a course that looks browned out. I don't even think the Brits would accept it, with some exceptions of course, if they had any other choice. Certainly the members at RSG, Cinque Ports, and the other top tier places would accept it, but I think the average golfer in England would prefer the American look if given the choice.

Allow me to share a story. Just after I finished university in North Carolina, I played with a good friend and his brother-in-law's father on a slightly above average public course in Raleigh. Middle of the road architecturally, but maintained somewhat firm and fast, given the clay soil, and certainly green. In three years at school, I'd probably played this course 20 times, and I'll say this was the best I'd ever seen it, both firm with reasonably fast greens, and bright green. The father gentleman was a member of one of the Royal's, I can't recall which one at this moment. He went through two of the old disposable cameras out there because, I quote as closely as I remember, "I wanna show the boys back home about this course I played over here that's the equal of The Old Course for only 30 pound." Can't make this stuff up Patrick.

I strongly suspect that even amongst the Brits, if given the option of having a course maintained like TOC or ANGC, you'd get just a slightly higher percentage of golfers who prefer TOC than you would here in America. Its just that the Brits don't really have that option, especially on the coast. Take a look at some of the parkland Royal's, like Royal Winchester, where I've played. Winchester played nicely firm when I was there, but it was far from brown, quite vibrantly green it was.

Just some thoughts, Patrick.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Will the British Open telecast
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2011, 04:45:53 AM »
Don't forget there are a couple of thousand golf courses in the UK and around a hundred proper links courses from Ramsgate to Penzance some 300 miles there's Princes, Sandwich, Deal, Rye, Littlestone & Hayling Island. Go north and east Essex has no links, then Felixstowe Ferry, Great Yarmouth, Sheringham, Brancaster, Hunstanton, Seacroft, North Shore and Sandiland. That's probably a total of 600 miles of our coast and only 14 links courses.
Cave Nil Vino

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