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Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
As they stand on the 17th tee, golfers will face just the second par 5 (468 meters) of the round (the first coming at the 1st). The nearest bunker on the left can be carried by a decent drive, but that may bring the next set of traps onto play. Thus, the safer line is down the right center of the fairway at the far patch of shrubbery. From there, the hole climbs left around the hill and only big hitters with appropriate lies will try for the green.


The entrance to the 17th green is open to running shots, and there is a bit of space past the putting surface for shots that run through. Do not miss left.

Note: The 4th green is seen at the left edge of frame and the 13th fairway is dead ahead near the horizon.


From behind, it is possible to discern the greenside bunkers and the closely-mown swale long and left. Further on, the tumbling fairway and the uphill nature of the approach are visible.

"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Another example of how shrubbery growth detracts from the course here Kyle, with the beginning of the fairway obscured from view with your photo from the tee. And the shrubs are getting taller all the time. A cool hole, with a great green, and wonderful green complex. Viewed earlier in the round (from the 4th tee) the open green front and possibility to get home in two with a long running approach is easily appreciated. So too the mown valley at the rear left of the green, and the bunker lying some distance from the green. Tough up and down from back there.

FYI - Here's a shot from the tee in Dec 2006



MM
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 06:17:53 PM by Matthew Mollica »
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kevin,
I think anyone can pick holes in the world's best holes can be criticised in the manner that Brian criticises this hole.   How does the average player go trying to hit the 21 metre wide sloping fairway at 4 rmw.  Is the front bunker at 15 at kh fair for the average player?  How does an average player hold the 12th green at Augusta. How do they get-out of the road bunker? And on and on and on.

David

I agree that people see different things though with the holes you mention there are a variety of ways to play the hole whereas at 13 SAB there is really only two.
1. Bomb it to the right uphill and into the prevailing breeze (and I agree with your notion that the ti-tree should be cleared moreso)
2. Bomb it straight uphill and into the prevailing breeze (& hope you get a good bounce)

Not too many options there ?

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think there is more to it than that, KP.

The "miss" left seems more severe than to the right, so if you want to flirt with the left that's the A1 line that takes the bunkers out of the way for the second shot, whether you're laying up or going for the green. You are rewarded for playing down the more risky side of the fairway.

The run-out areas seems more generous (and the slopes not as steep) to the right, so the lesser player can nudge it down there, or ensure his attempt for the middle of the fairway errs to the right (the side to which most poorer players miss shots).

He might have a somewhat blind second and the bunkers are likely to feature in his second shot, but that's his medicine for taking the easier line off the tee.

I really am amazed how much opposition there is to this one hole given how incredibly generous the rest of the course is off the tee.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Some more pics of the 17th.  If memory serves driving out to the right of the centre bunker can result in a severely hanging lie for the second shot.  Seems like a better line would be to use the contours to run the ball in between the two left bunkers.  Of course that would lead to a really blind second.







Bruce Hardie

  • Karma: +0/-0
I haven't found a spot yet that gives an 'easy' second shot. As Bryan says it is either hanging on the right on blind on the left.

However, given this is a shortish par 5 that generally plays downwind, I don't think that detracts from the hole.

I still can't believe anyone has ended up in the far left greenside bunker, and I use the word greenside advisedly here. It must be 40m past the hole.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
I liked that the hanging lie you're likely to get aids the shape that is required to bounce one onto the green.

It seemed to me the player who'd benefit from playing right of the centreline bunker is one who is able to knock it past, as the slope then becomes a help in running the ball a) further, and b) back to the middle.

If the centreline bunker is as far as you can hit it, it seems to me that you want to be as close to it as possible, left, right or short depending on personal preference.

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kp,  the prevailing wind helps the player on 13.   I think that the aiming point changes a lot depending on how far you can hit it.  Down wind I try to play down the right and kick off the mound. Into the wind my dad would aim 50 metres left of this line, as this is the fat part of the fairway into the wind.

Re 17:  I despise this hole, a complete dog imo.  From the back tee you cannot hit the ball past the centreline bunker on the left or the right.   Ogilvy will hit over it, the rest of us hit short of it. It plays as a roadblock cross bunker, rather than a centreline bunker.  The green is too big to make you care a out where you hit your second shot, and the contours too bland to produce any short game interest, the left side of the green excepted, of course.  The greenside bunkers are probably Tue worst on the course too, and don't serve much purpose other than hiding a very unfortunately located path.
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Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is my take of Hole 17. Like the 1st has a drive from a high tee and one was waiting so long for another par 5 to play!


Tee shot


Rolling fairway!


Rear view


Unusual greenside bunker at rear of green at end of run off


Rear view of green from 4th hole see how far the rear bunker is away from the green

Cheers
Ben

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
The final hole (404 meters) presents a fairly simple drive for longer players able to carry the right-side fairway bunker on line with the green dead ahead (note that the large swath of short grass running off the right side of the frame connects to the first fairway).
Shorter hitters may have to circumnavigate via the narrower corridor down the left side. Fortunately, the green is angled to favor approaches that run near the left fairway trap.


Looking across the green’s entrance from long/right, the upward nature of the approach is apparent. The putting surface is convex in nature, though it is set within a larger bowl that will gather shots into the swales bordering the green. A par (or better) here will make the long walk back up the ridge to the car park seem less arduous.

"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Here is my take of Hole 18 - nicely shaped green for a final hole


Tee shot


View to 1st green from shared 18th fairway


View to green from fairway

I felt that the last four holes was a bit 'flat' compared with the first 14 holes which were quite spectacular. I would definitely play it again anytime knowing where to go and where to avoid!

Well done Tom Doak and Mike Clayton on there work here - value for money it is one of the best I have played.

Cheers
Ben


Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kyle,

Thanks for the photo tour.

I am looking forward to playing there myself with a few friends in October.

For those who have experienced other Doak courses where does this sit?

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Thanks for the photo tour! 

This course has always intrigued me.  It looks really good!  Too bad it's on the opposite side of the globe...
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
For those who have experienced other Doak courses where does this sit?

Ballyneal is still my all-time favorite.

Barnbougle and Pacific Dunes are right there as well.

I reckon St Andrews Beach and Stone Eagle are just a notch below in terms of overall quality (mainly due to the more difficult properties), but they are both world-class courses in their own right with very unique individual character. Stone Eagle is a marvel -- such a compelling yet forgiving course in such a seemingly oversloped and rock-strewn hellscape.

Aside for Pacific Dunes, I have found Doak courses yield far more double-breaking putts than just about any other "brand."
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Kyle,

Thanks for the reply and the interesting thoughts.

I have played Ballyneal, Pacific Dunes, Barnbougle and Cape Kidnappers and look forward to seeing to see how it compares to the above magnificent layouts.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
The 18th is one of the best finishing holes I've played.

The drive offers something rewarding for the good player who dares to fly one down the right. I flew the trap, caught the downslope and only had 120 or so in, and until I got to the bunkers I hadn't realised how risky that line is.

But there's acres of room down the left for a safe drive, and the green is perfect for a hole where a lot of approach shots are going to be played from a long distance.

A perfect end to a fantastic golf course, far better than it gets credit for, IMO.

I have it ahead of RM East, for instance, and to be perfectly honest it might even be a match for NSWGC and Lost Farm.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Kyle,

Thanks for the photo tour.

I am looking forward to playing there myself with a few friends in October.

For those who have experienced other Doak courses where does this sit?

Ash:

My associates voted it among our top 5 courses.  That was before Old Macdonald and maybe even before Rock Creek, I can't remember -- but I suspect it would still have some support at that level.


I don't have a lot of 18th holes I would cite as favorites, but I think this one is really good.

That bunker on 17 was only put there for someone who had plenty of length to get home in two, and hit a wild shot.  For those players, it ought to give some pause before whaling away on a 3-wood; but only if they know it's there.

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Hi Tom,

I remember being carted around St Andrews Beach just before it was opened and being so impressed.

It is for reasons that are well known probably the course that has flown most under the radar of your portfolio and it has been very insightful to follow Kyle's tour.

I am looking forward to playing in October and hopefully validating my first look.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Some additional pics of 18.  The right bunker is fearsome.  The tie-in from fairway to green reminded me of Coore and Crenshaw is is it the other way around?  As previously stated, very good if you're running a long shot in.










Bruce Hardie

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think the 18th is a missed opportunity from the point of view of modern architecture.

There is a great big hill behind the green there. Why is the green not up on top of the hill? Why aren't we being forced to flog our way up the hill, hoping we can get away with a bogey? Has the architect learned nothing from the last 20 years of architecture? It doesn't even play into the prevailing wind, although NW is the second best choice.

There is the potential for an absolute card wrecker there and instead you could navigate your way down with a putter.

Mark_F

Nice photo tour, Kyle.

Good one.  :)

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bruce,

Could have built a hell of a waterfall cascading down that hill, too ;D

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Yep, yet another good tour and some good memories El Capitan.  Not much commentary from me except to say I found the course rather enjoyable with some eye popping moments.  Somewhat of a sleeper really. 

Thanks!
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Many thanks to all of the enthusiastic participants.

Mark, I appreciate you patience as I stopped to snap a few shots during each fleeting period of sunshine.

Patrick, thank you for riding my coat tails to victory over Mike and Dave. ;D
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0

Patrick, thank you for riding my coat tails to victory over Mike and Dave. ;D


Anytime partner...  ;)

I learn only from the best...
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect