Golf needs to learn from Skiing

[Ian Andrew]

I attended a lecture on "How the Ski Industry is Attracting New Participants" by Michael Berry. I was incredibly impressed with how the "Ski Resort Owners" have managed their industry in recent times. I thought I would share my thoughts from what I heard.
 

Skiing spent almost 20 years with zero growth. In the last 10 years skiing has had a golden period where growth and profits have soared. There have been a number of new resorts that have come on line to meet demand.

Around 10 years ago the ski resort owners, the ones with the most to gain or lose, sat down and looked at why their sport was struggling. They discovered that they were barely getting 10% retention rate with novice skiers. The major complaints were a lack of time (golf can relate to this), how they were treated and in their case the loss of skiers once the kids left the home.

When they looked into how people came to the sport, it was usually through family but almost as often through friends (very similar to golf). They found they had excellent retention with the group they called the thrill seekers, they had modest attraction to the group they labelled the tag alongs, but they had almost no retention on the group they called the socials. That group only came to remain part of the group. They realized that to make skiing more “sticky” they needed to address each group by making it a better experience tailored to them.

Skiing was given the “golden gift” just over a decade ago with snowboarding. Snowboarding brought in a dramatically younger but most importantly ethnically diverse group to the hills. It was the “game changer” for skiing. But skiing was not foolish enough to make assumptions that this was all it needed, like golf was with Tiger Woods. They built terrain parks for the thrill seekers and snowboarders in particular to say we are thinking of you. They improved service and changed the rental system to provide top notch equipment with excellent service to address the socials. Imagine if golf courses provide options for equipment where you could play your preferences at a resort without carrying your bag through the airport, that’s what skiing has accomplished. I rented rather than bringing my skis the last time I went west!

But the real key was how they dealt with the beginners (socials and particularly the tag alongs). The mantra forever in the ski resort business was add to more difficult terrain to gain a greater reputation for challenge. The reality was 90% of skiers spent 90% of their time on the beginner and intermediate slopes. Once the ski industry understood that their efforts were misplaced they concentrated on expanding the beginner’s terrain and providing additional diversity in the gliding terrain. Skiing changed for the better and the consumer showed up ready to ski. They had improved the stickiness of the sport by catering more actively to the average skier (the golf industry has to see the clear parallel).

So let’s apply these lessons to golf. The easier the initial experience, the more likely the player is to return to try the game again. The more accessible and enjoyable the experience, the more fun the game is and the higher likelihood that the person stays with the game. So if golf really truly wants to break this cycle of stagnation, the answer is to build the game from the ground up rather than from the peak down. We have no need for championship courses. We need a decade of short, easy and fun courses to grow the game.

Thank you skiing for providing a clear road map to success. The question is whether we will pay attention.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Interesting read.


In the UK and from people I speak with I think price is major issue.  Golf membership usually offers good value but for the first time player green fees are just ridiculous.  When people told me this I would always make the argument that for £20-£50 quid what else can you get of comparable value for a way to spend a day.  This I think is not the way to look at it, remember these players are going to bad and probably not enjoy the experience.  They may have a desire to come back and conquer the game and gain pleasure that way. 

But would a player not totally hooked the first time keep coming back to spend £40 to play agian?  If they do and get to the stage of buying membership then golf can start to become reasonable.  So there needs to be more options in the middle to get beginners hooked on the game.  So more muni's, more par 3 and short courses and maybe better offers for people coming to golf for the first time.

I guess that is in line with the beginner slopes idea used by the ski industry.

[Peter Pallotta]

Excellent post, Ian - really good thoughts.

I've said before that I think one of the unintended consequences of a site like gca.com is the denigration of the average/modest golf course. Oh sure, we all look for hidden gems and we often remember with nostalgia the little public courses where we first learned the game; but then we turn around with our endless ranking lists and constant reference to the 15-20 most exclusive courses of the world and our poetic musings on greatness and so re-affirm that most of us couldn't give a sh-t about the average course or the average golfer (or, frankly, about 'growing the game').  I think a course like Copetown Woods is a wonderful example of what you're describing, as are a number of the course you've designed/worked on.

Peter

[Steve Kline]

Clearly golf has catered to the single-digit handicap player. Owners want a championship course or a course to host a major. Courses always tout their length. Resorts build a number of courses that all fit that model. They cater to the crowd that is already committed and willing to play 36 holes per day.

To be like skiing resorts should build teaching/practice areas, par 3 courses, 3/6/9 hole loops. All of these should have the fundamentals in mind and made fairly easy to conquer - wider fairways, slower green speeds, drier turf, higher mowing heights. As a kid I remember going to ski school the first couple of trips while my parents went and skied for the day. It was great fun for all.

Will it work in golf? I have no idea. Skiing is far easier to learn than golf imo.

[Kalen Braley]

Ian,

Thanks for me as well for posting.  That was very excellent.

As I think about how this applies to golf, I can't help but wonder if most of what golf needs would indeed run counter to the general sentiment of this site. In my experience, as one who plays the vast majority of my golf on public munis and CCFADs....I think I see more social golfers being introduced to the game more than anything else, as I rarely see kids.  And they almost always assume that the default norm is:

Drinking beer.
Taking carts.
Outfitting with the latest and greatest gadgets.
Getting regular service from the beverage cart girl.
Not caring about strict adherence to the rules.
Not caring about speedy play, they figure the course is nice....4.5-5.5 hr rounds is not a big deal.

I think the biggest thing the golf industry needs to address is cost, more specifically getting a good value for the many paid.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Approximately 50% of golf courses w/USGA ratings have slopes between 100 and 120.

I think it always goes back to where the golf courses are located. Skiiers from the 'city' will travel several hours to hit the slopes, and think nothing of it.....and they aren't going for three hours of skiing and then turning around to go home, it's an all day affair or a weekend trip.

Golfers want more convenience.    

[Bill Seitz]

Very interesting post.  While there are a lot of similarities (time commitment, for example), I think one thing may be overlooked, and that's the change in technology.  Obviously for golf, technology has changed dramatically, but it's still a difficult game, especially for the novice.  Skiing, however, experienced a bit of a sea change virtually overnight with the introduction of parabolic skis.  I'm not sure what the experts have said about this, but my opinion here is mostly shaped by own experience.

I've been skiing only a handful of times in my life.  The first couple time was when I was in college at the base of the San Bernardino mountains.  This was probably in 1993-1994.  We drove up to the local mountains, and while it was fun, I found it very difficult to pick up.  I could make my way down larger runs, but I was pretty much a snow plower.  I didn't ski again until a few years ago.  I work for a small consulting firm, and our CEO has a house on Deer Valley in Park City, Utah (which also happens to be one of the few resorts that does not allow snow-boarding).  It's ski-in, ski-out.  For the last three years, 10-11 guys from the office have gone out and skied for a few days.  I was apprehensive at first, based on my initial experiences, and wasn't sure I'd even be able to make it down the mountain from the house.  But the skis were just light years different in my opinion.  Having gone 15 years without skiing, and poor skiing at that, I felt almost right away like I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.  I could carry speed, carve parallel turns, and it was a really enjoyable experience.  On our trips, there are guys who go out there to party and do a little bit of skiing, and guys who go to ski and do a little bit of partying.  I'm definitely in the latter group, and am usually the last one of our group off the mountain (the great thing about ski-in, ski-out is that you're on your own schedule).

While golf technology has changed a ton over the years, I'm not sure there was ever a single change that was this dramatic.  It would be as if we went from Hickories and Featheries to Titanium and Pro-Vs overnight.  I'm not sure how much the change in technology has impacted the business, but skiing is definitely more enjoyable now than it was 15-20 years ago.  If only it wasn't so damn hard to get your boots on and off.  

[David_Tepper]

Bill Seitz just stole my thunder. The introduction of skis with curved sides, that make turning much easier, has definitely made the sport more enjoyable for the average recreational skier.  

[Garland Bayley]

Here's how skiing got me started. First three times out they gave me free rental, free lift pass, and free lesson.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish bad golfers would get hurt or die like bad skiers who try to play above their pay grade.

[Ross Tuddenham]

I wish bad golfers would get hurt or die like bad skiers who try to play above their pay grade.

At least then golf could attract the thrill seeker group.

[Richard Choi]

Every ski resort I go to have programs where my wife and my daughter have access to myriad of lessons, group lessons, and clinics that they can participate in. I can drop off my daughter at 8AM and pick her up at 3:30PM after a full day of skiing with her class.

How many golf courses offer that kind of services for people who want to learn?

[Kalen Braley]

Every ski resort I go to have programs where my wife and my daughter have access to myriad of lessons, group lessons, and clinics that they can participate in. I can drop off my daughter at 8AM and pick her up at 3:30PM after a full day of skiing with her class.

How many golf courses offer that kind of services for people who want to learn?

C'mon Richard don't be ridiculous!

Its much better that your daughter should be able to go to the club and be left to gorge on hot dogs, burgers, shakes, and other goodies from the grill/restuarant and lounge around on leather couches with 45 inch wide screens than actually being able to get lessons to actually play!! 

[Jason Topp]

Thanks Ian.  Adopting the ski thinking to golf, I can think of three categories of people have shown an interest in the game that provide relatively easy opportunities for growth:

(1) I know many women who have taken golf lessons but have rarely if ever actually played the game.  It seems to me that this group is one of the primary opportunities for growth in the game.

(2) Many juniors burn out at some point between age 16 and 22.  They have played competitively up to that point, improved for a long period of time but then give up when they realize they are not good enough to be a tour pro or do not enjoy the game when improvement is much more difficult.  I would focus on turning these people into active recreational players.  I know many people that used to be very good that no longer play at all.

(3) Another key time is when people have young children.  During those years, it is difficult to find the time to play but if you could keep such individuals active through early morning two-balls that finish in 3 hours or quick 9 hole twilight rounds, such an effort would help also.

[Wade Whitehead]

No 25 handicapper is going to risk death by wrongly playing the back tee.  A novice skier on a black diamond, however...

WW

[Ronald Montesano]

1. Every middle and high school near a resort/hill has a ski club. How many transport that many pre-teens and teens to the golf course, where they have a reduced-rate night (usually Friday) to own the golf course?

2.  Ski instructors are out on the slopes with you as a matter of course. There is no "skiing range," where skiers are stationary and flail away at skiing, as we do in most golf lessons. How many golf pros take people out on the course from the get-go?

Those are two basic points that allow us to see the difference 'twixt the two endeavors. Why don't you ask golf pros at ski resorts if they have learned anything from their fellow employees?

[Tim Martin]

I wish bad golfers would get hurt or die like bad skiers who try to play above their pay grade.

John-That certainly is a nice sentiment and thank you very much for sharing your feelings on the matter. We know how bad skiers can get hurt or die but what about golfers? Carts nosediving over ravines or into the ocean or maybe just taking a smother hooked drive to the temple are certainly options.Can you can expound on this? Thanks.

[Joel Zuckerman]

I am an avid skier, occasional snowboarder, and manic golfer, and have written about all three sports (golf extensively) so will add these thoughts to the discussion.

First--snowboarding has been in vogue for 25+ years at the minimum, not 10+. I took it up almost 20 years ago in my early 30s, and it was well entrenched already.

More importantly, from what I have learned from industry professionals and marketing types, snowboarding is more than skiing's "golden gift."  If it wasn't for the hundreds of thousands of boarders coming to the ski hills in the last 20--30 years, and paying for lift tickets, etc, skiing would be close to dead......many smaller resorts shuttered, and the larger marquee venues barely clinging to life.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian:

Great post.

Few have talked much so far about what sort of courses would really present a parallel for golf to the lessons learned from skiing.  It sounds to me like what we need are "fun" courses -- short and bumpy, but where the bumps help you as often as hurt you.  I've always thought a larger-scale version of the Children's course at North Berwick would be a hit.  But, I've yet to have a client who wanted anything of the kind.

 

[Ronald Montesano]

"The mantra forever in the ski resort business was add to more difficult terrain to gain a greater reputation for challenge. The reality was 90% of skiers spent 90% of their time on the beginner and intermediate slopes."

Sound familiar? Forced carries over wetlands, narrow fairways, bodacious bunkers, thick rough...what is the skiing equivalent of the water hazard? Not trying to pussify the sport completely...maybe doing a fair job of it!


and on and on plays the dirge...

[Carl Nichols]

2.  Ski instructors are out on the slopes with you as a matter of course. There is no "skiing range," where skiers are stationary and flail away at skiing, as we do in most golf lessons. How many golf pros take people out on the course from the get-go?

I don't disagree with the general point you're making, but you can't really practice skiing anywhere other than on a slope; golf can be (and generally is) practiced on ranges. 

[MikeJones]

Great post Ian, I agree with everything you said.

The key word is 'fun' and the key phrase is 'value for money'. Provide both of these and you'll have them coming back for more of the same.

Still on the skiing theme, back in the days when I use to do some golf coaching, one of my pupils commented on the differences between learning to skill and learning to play golf in that in his mind golf wasn't fun until you reached a level of competence whereas skiing was fun from the start even when you were on the nursery slopes falling over every two minutes.

Having never tried skiing myself I have often wondered why he felt like this and if it is indeed the case, how can we change the way the game is taught to make it more fun for beginners?

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish bad golfers would get hurt or die like bad skiers who try to play above their pay grade.

John-That certainly is a nice sentiment and thank you very much for sharing your feelings on the matter. We know how bad skiers can get hurt or die but what about golfers? Carts nosediving over ravines or into the ocean or maybe just taking a smother hooked drive to the temple are certainly options.Can you can expound on this? Thanks.

Expounding:  People generally ski the proper "tees" for fear of injury.  They take lessons for the same reason. Golf could use a little fear to motivate those who placate the game at others expense.

[Garland Bayley]

Ponds are used extremely seldom at ski areas, as they should be on golf courses.

[Ian Andrew]

I think one thing may be overlooked, and that's the change in technology.  Obviously for golf, technology has changed dramatically, but it's still a difficult game, especially for the novice.  Skiing, however, experienced a bit of a sea change virtually overnight with the introduction of parabolic skis.  

Thanks Bill. I meant to include the fact that technology has made things easier for skiers and is also considered a positive factor too.

Intrestingly Michael's advice was to not to reign in technolgy that makes the game easier "for the average player."