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Bruce Wellmon

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Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« on: May 01, 2011, 01:54:02 PM »
To the left of the cart path is the hazard and to the left of the red line is the hazard.
If your ball comes to rest on the cart path, but to the left of the red line, you are in the hazard and can not get relief from the cart path. Same thing would apply if you are up against the left edge of the cart path, in the hazard.

Should there be circumstances where you can not get relief from the cart path?

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2011, 01:59:27 PM »
Looks lazy to me.The red stake is redundant.In this situation I would rather see the hazard start on the right of the path.Put the path in the hazard where such eyesores belong.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 02:01:26 PM »
Others will know better than I,but I was always taught that the stake only identifies the hazard--the line defines it.

Why not just draw the line left of the road?

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 02:06:22 PM »
Mike hit it on the head.  It's lazy.  Whoever is responsible for marking the hazards doesn't want to do it as often as they should, so they just paint the path, which will stay longer than if they paint the grass.  Also, whoever was responsible for mowing the grass along the path is lazy, because they didn't get off the mower to move and mow the stakes, as evidenced by  the long tufts of grass surrounding the stakes.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 02:15:35 PM »
If this is close to the fwy and the desired line of play, then it is sort of lazy to mark it like that. On the other hand, if that path is 50 yards to the side of the hole and you have to hit a screaming pull hook to get all the way over there, well then just be happy you found your ball. I know we'd all like our hazards to all be marked perfectly, but we'd also like a reasonable green fee or membership.
On first glance it doesn't look that great, but I'd need to know more about where that path is and how close it is to play before I'd start throwing words around like lazy.

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 11:04:53 PM »
Should there be circumstances where you can not get relief from the cart path?

There may be reasons that free relief from the cart path is not permitted, and the usual reason would be if the integrity of the design of the hole could be compromised by taking relief from the cart path.  The committee has the authority to declare cart paths (or any Immovable Obstruction) to be integral parts of the course.  In such cases free relief under Rule 24-2  Immovable Obstruction is not available.

Relief options are always awkward when a cart path (or any immovable obstruction) abut a (Lateral) Water Hazard.  Without seeing a wider view of the area it is not possible to give an authoritative opinion but a few points.

 - is there anyway the margin of the hazard can be moved more than 2 club lengths to the left?  If so this awkward situation could be eliminated by having the margin an appreciable distance from the cart path.

 - other have remarked about the positioning of the line on the path.  It would be much preferable to have it painted on the very edge of the path or just inside the edge of the cart path, making all the path out of the hazard.  As marked, if the ball came to rest on the path inside the margin of the hazard, the player would have to play the ball as it lies or proceed under the water hazard rule - penalty 1 stroke, free relief is not available.

 - in taking relief from the water hazard the player, under Rule 26-1c, can drop within 2 club lengths of the last point of entry into the LWH, no nearer the hole.  That area would include the cart path, and if the ball came to rest on the cart path or in a position where the player had interference from the cart path, the player would have the option to drop proceed under Rule 24-2 - Immovable Obstruction.  That would be a second procedure from taking relief from the hazard, the relief procedure cannot be combined into 1 procedure.

 - it is not uncommon to use both stakes and paint when marking a hazard.  In such cases, the stakes identify the hazard and the line defines the margin of the hazard.  Using both stakes and lines is used when the Committee wants players to be able to see the hazard from a distance.  The stakes are visible when the line is not.  The common practice is to place the stakes on the line or outside the line, it is unusual to place them inside the hazard.  Doing so may bring some complications if the stakes are immovable or a player's ball comes to rest in a hole made by a stake that has not been replaced.

Hope this helps.
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2011, 09:41:15 AM »
Should there be circumstances where you can not get relief from the cart path?

 - is there anyway the margin of the hazard can be moved more than 2 club lengths to the left?  If so this awkward situation could be eliminated by having the margin an appreciable distance from the cart path.

Hope this helps.

Yes it does, thank you.
I need to take another pic Saturday when I'm playing.
The area in question is in the line of the fairway but is down in a depressed area that requires a forced carry of 75+ yards.. It is all fescue grass, not mowed, and not actually water. It was marked as a lateral hazard as some seniors, ladies, or juniors would at times not carry the area and it's very difficult to find the ball in there or hack it out. So to speed play .......
But, yes, there is room to the left to move the line left.

Scott Stearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hazard/Is this marked correctly, or incorrectly?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 10:47:56 PM »
Badly marked.  Better would be stakes and a definition that a ball that is left of the path is in the hazard. 

What national championship is being played there?

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