[Adam Clayman]

I think I know one of the reasons there are no carts. Caddies. Generating livlihoods for hundreds of people is a great community builder. And thankfully no CSI

[Garland Bayley]

Doesn't Dream Golf answer the no carts question? When you have to make allowance for golf carts the quality of the golf course goes down. Mike didn't want to dumb down the courses.

[Sean Leary]

I would like to know why Keiser excluded so many golfers from this prime golf location by not allowing carts on any of his Bandon courses.

I will ask a version of that question, because one of the riskiest aspects of his business plan was his insistence on no carts.  To me, that is the principle reason why the place has such a "pure golf" vibe, because it is not overrun with people on carts who don't care if they shoot 200, they just want to say they played the courses and they would never walk.  There's probably a "cost" in that, but there's a lot of value added for the people who are more serious about the game.

Cart or no cart doesn't determine how serious you are about the game. There are just as many or more bumbling idiots with cash in their pockets for caddies and pull carts that go out and shoot 200 and take 6 hours to do it on those courses as those who would appreciate them from a cart. If you want to restrict the play to "serious" golfers then required handicaps for certain hours of the day and use marshalls to speed up play.

Tim,

How many golfers are out there that have to use a cart? I wouldn't think that there are that many that are truly excluded. Perhaps more might go if there were carts, but they seem to be doing pretty well as is. Beyond what Garland and Adam just mentioned, there is also the issue of carts and fescue not being a good match as well...

[David_Madison]

Aren't carts used at Bandon when a golfer, for medical reasons, needs one? I thought that a caddy had to drive the cart, as there are paths all through the place but they are in many places well hidden.

[Matt MacIver]

My question for C&C:

"I've read that you don't prefer to build, or in fact aren't the right firm, to build "championship" courses or courses for the pros to play.  But clearly C&C does build fun, interesting and challenging courses.  So without changing your courses, what would have to be changed in order to make your courses suitable for the pro game?"

Note that I'm not advocating, say, a US Open at Sand Hills: but what if?  And how? 

[William_G]

I would like to know why Keiser excluded so many golfers from this prime golf location by not allowing carts on any of his Bandon courses.

I will ask a version of that question, because one of the riskiest aspects of his business plan was his insistence on no carts.  To me, that is the principle reason why the place has such a "pure golf" vibe, because it is not overrun with people on carts who don't care if they shoot 200, they just want to say they played the courses and they would never walk.  There's probably a "cost" in that, but there's a lot of value added for the people who are more serious about the game.

Cart or no cart doesn't determine how serious you are about the game. There are just as many or more bumbling idiots with cash in their pockets for caddies and pull carts that go out and shoot 200 and take 6 hours to do it on those courses as those who would appreciate them from a cart. If you want to restrict the play to "serious" golfers then required handicaps for certain hours of the day and use marshalls to speed up play.

Walking is an intergral part of the game, as golf existed long before the cart. Brilliant move by McKee and Keiser.

[Adam Clayman]

Matt MacIver- They basically did that at Colorado GC. I'm not sure how to describe the differences, but suffice to say, as a whole, it's not their best work. i believe they could hold a pro event at any of their courses, save for the perceptions regarding score.

[Matt MacIver]

Matt MacIver- They basically did that at Colorado GC. I'm not sure how to describe the differences, but suffice to say, as a whole, it's not their best work. i believe they could hold a pro event at any of their courses, save for the perceptions regarding score.

Adam - that would have been my thought too but I read that comment so I thought I'd ask.  They probably were talking more about creating spectator viewing areas and other necessary non-golf requirements but I thought there could be some interesting tangents to explore. 

I'd happily watch a full PGA Tour season played exclusively on C&C courses...in fact we could include several other non-Tour courses and archies and make a new schedule!  The West Coast Swing would start at Black Mesa wander north towards Bandon...)

[Adam Clayman]

Kapalua holds their attention. As for spectator golf that appears to be a dwindling demographic. Especially since the truly big draw is a non factor these days. I miss the days when putts broke 15 feet. Even ANGC softens their slopes too often. Its hard to justify playing into the hands of what are suppose to be the world's best.

[Mike Tanner]

I'm interested in the learning experience.

So, same line of questioning for both men: What do you know now that you didn't know then? What's the most important lesson that's been revealed to you in the course of your experience designing/building golf courses and developing golf destinations?

 

[Tim Leahy]

I would like to know why Keiser excluded so many golfers from this prime golf location by not allowing carts on any of his Bandon courses.

I will ask a version of that question, because one of the riskiest aspects of his business plan was his insistence on no carts.  To me, that is the principle reason why the place has such a "pure golf" vibe, because it is not overrun with people on carts who don't care if they shoot 200, they just want to say they played the courses and they would never walk.  There's probably a "cost" in that, but there's a lot of value added for the people who are more serious about the game.

Cart or no cart doesn't determine how serious you are about the game. There are just as many or more bumbling idiots with cash in their pockets for caddies and pull carts that go out and shoot 200 and take 6 hours to do it on those courses as those who would appreciate them from a cart. If you want to restrict the play to "serious" golfers then required handicaps for certain hours of the day and use marshalls to speed up play.

Walking is an intergral part of the game, as golf existed long before the cart. Brilliant move by McKee and Keiser.

Golf also existed long before modern equipment using your rational, so you must be dumming down the game and not playing it the way it was meant to be played by using modern equipment.

[Garland Bayley]

I would like to know why Keiser excluded so many golfers from this prime golf location by not allowing carts on any of his Bandon courses.

I will ask a version of that question, because one of the riskiest aspects of his business plan was his insistence on no carts.  To me, that is the principle reason why the place has such a "pure golf" vibe, because it is not overrun with people on carts who don't care if they shoot 200, they just want to say they played the courses and they would never walk.  There's probably a "cost" in that, but there's a lot of value added for the people who are more serious about the game.

Cart or no cart doesn't determine how serious you are about the game. There are just as many or more bumbling idiots with cash in their pockets for caddies and pull carts that go out and shoot 200 and take 6 hours to do it on those courses as those who would appreciate them from a cart. If you want to restrict the play to "serious" golfers then required handicaps for certain hours of the day and use marshalls to speed up play.

Walking is an intergral part of the game, as golf existed long before the cart. Brilliant move by McKee and Keiser.

Golf also existed long before modern equipment using your rational, so you must be dumming down the game and not playing it the way it was meant to be played by using modern equipment.

Not unless they start putting motors and wheels on the clubs and balls like they have on your feet.

[Rob Rigg]

Both - What do you look for in a site before you are willing to commit?

BC - How do you manage the "hack" vs the "stick" in your designs?

BC - Is repetition of ideas across designs unavoidable or reality? eg) there are only so many story lines for a novel is it the same for GCA

MK - What is the future of the game? Exotic or out of the way locales that call to the passionate golfer's soul or designs close to cities that allow the game to be played "as intended" by the masses? Or neither?

[Mark Pearce]

I would like to know why Keiser excluded so many golfers from this prime golf location by not allowing carts on any of his Bandon courses.

Really?  How many golfers did that decision actually exclude?  "Excluded" golfers are only those who have health issues meaning they can't walk.  Anyone who could walk but chooses not to is not excluded, they have chosen to exclude themselves.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Terry,

Lucky you.

I"d ask Mike, upon reflection, and with a visionary eye, what he plans in the way of additions or changes for his Bandon Property.

I'd ask Bill, what influence the wind had on his design of Bandon Trails.

And, I'd appreciate authorship and credit for these questions, I don't want them to think that you thought of them 

[Norbert P]

.

Ah, theTralfamadorian symbol for "greetings".



   Inarguably, both Keiser and Coore are considered bellwethers of their respective careers. And, perhaps the finest examples in the field of the old adage that "success breeds success".
 What benefits and pressures does that give them in their pursuits? 

  Onward, Rocinante' !

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