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Wade Whitehead

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When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« on: April 24, 2011, 05:40:14 PM »
Harbour Town's 18th is iconic but ends at the marina, not at the clubhouse..

What other courses have a finishing hole that doesn't finish at the clubhouse?

It's a strange feature that I don't recall being discussed here before.

WW
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Sam Morrow

Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 05:48:55 PM »
That course they played this week in China. It looked like it was a long cart ride back to the house. How fair is 18 at Harbour Town from the clubhouse?
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Dan Kelly

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 05:59:14 PM »
Quote from: wwhitehead on April 24, 2011, 05:40:14 PM
What other courses have a finishing hole that doesn't finish at the clubhouse?

Sutton Bay. Sand Hills. Other courses on the plains?
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Scott Warren

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 06:00:32 PM »
St Andrews Beach outside Melbourne and Crail (Balcomie) in Fife both involve a hefty - and uphill - walk after the round.

Crail's is more vertical than anything and the green isn't really so far from the house, but it's still a hell of a walk from final putt to first pint!

I suppose if you're a member of any one of the local golf clubs in St Andrews then TOC doesn't finish at the house!
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 06:00:46 PM »
My course at Giants Ridge Legends finishes across a highway.  Depending on how far you count as "away" from the clubhouse, there are probably many in housing projects that require a street crossing to finish and get back.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 06:08:26 PM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on April 24, 2011, 06:00:32 PM
St Andrews Beach outside Melbourne and Crail (Balcomie) in Fife both involve a hefty - and uphill - walk after the round.

Crail's is more vertical than anything and the green isn't really so far from the house, but it's still a hell of a walk from final putt to first pint!

I suppose if you're a member of any one of the local golf clubs in St Andrews then TOC doesn't finish at the house!
There's a good 300 yards from the 18th green to the clubhouse on the Craighead course at Crail.   far easier walk than the shorter walk up the hill on Balcomie, though.  I can assure you that the walk up the hill from Balcomie feels shorter after a win and harder after three-putting to throw one away!
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Scott Warren

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 06:33:08 PM »
Quote
I can assure you that the walk up the hill from Balcomie feels shorter after a win and harder after three-putting to throw one away!

;D Bastard!
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mike_beene

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2011, 06:51:39 PM »
is it farther from the clubhouse than 18 at Pebble?
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 07:29:28 PM »
Black Forest at Wilderness Valley (Doak, MI) has a long drive to and from the clubhouse and in different directions. I'm guessing 18 to clubhouse is near a mile.
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David Schofield

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 07:55:45 PM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on April 24, 2011, 06:00:46 PM
My course at Giants Ridge Legends finishes across a highway.  Depending on how far you count as "away" from the clubhouse, there are probably many in housing projects that require a street crossing to finish and get back.

To be fair, most every hole on the back there is "away" in some way shape or form.
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Bruce Wellmon

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 07:58:28 PM »
I can think of Bright's Creek in NC.
The "hog hole" finishes next to the current clubhouse.
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Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 08:08:28 PM »
The Olde Farm and Kinloch have press holes, so 18 doesn't finish next to the clubhouse, but 19 does.

Is it a shortcoming if the hole hole doesn't return or does it speak to an architect (or client) who's willing to find the best hole, even if it means not finishing nearby?  In the non-GCA world, I think many people want the 18th to finish near the first tee.

WW
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Keith OHalloran

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 08:30:43 PM »
When I played it, Easthampton ended quite a bit from the clubhouse, including crossing a road.
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jim_lewis

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 09:14:30 PM »
The 18th at the Country Club of Castle Pines finishes about 800ft below the clubhouse which sits on the edge of a cliff above the 18th green. There is serpentine concrete cart path up the hill to the clubhouse.

Neither course at Forest Creek finishes at the clubhouse. The 19th "Hog Hole" separates the South Course from the clubhouse.

I am gernerally impressed when I see a routing that maximizes the best use of the land rather than featuring the clubhouse.
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 09:18:32 PM »
Manistee National GC - Cutter's Ridge Course finishes on the west side of MI-31 and it is a decent drive back to the clubhouse.

Stonegate GC (Twin Beach, MI) has a lengthy drive from the 18th hole to the clubhouse.

Greywalls - Marquette CC (at least until the new clubhouse is built) finishes and starts no where near the clubhouse).

The Rock GC (Drummond Island, MI) starts and finishes about 1 mile from the clubhouse.

Chris
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Wade Whitehead

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 09:34:46 PM »
Isn't a routing that doesn't end near the clubhouse essentially unwalkable?

WW
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 10:23:54 PM »
Quote from: wwhitehead on April 24, 2011, 09:34:46 PM
Isn't a routing that doesn't end near the clubhouse essentially unwalkable?

WW

I think it depends how far you end from the clubhouse.  I have walked some courses where the walk was significant from 18 to the clubhouse and still consider the course walkable.  The Rock in Michigan with a mile from 18 to the clubhouse, is of course unwalkable.

Chris
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Ted Cahill

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 11:29:56 PM »
Olympic Course at Gold Mountain in Bremerton, WA.  18 is a great short par four- but the hike up the hill to the clubhouse is a bear after walking this hilly course.  Love this course, can't say enough good about it- but I wouldn't mind if they added one of those people movers like I saw on a German course on Geoff Shakelford's site recently.  Seriously.  Richard Choi- what say you?
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Michael Whitaker

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2011, 11:52:20 PM »
Quote from: Pete_Pittock on April 24, 2011, 07:29:28 PM
Black Forest at Wilderness Valley (Doak, MI) has a long drive to and from the clubhouse and in different directions. I'm guessing 18 to clubhouse is near a mile.

Pete - Black Forest was the first course that came to my mind as well. St Andrews Beach (a Doak course in Australia) also has a long return to the clubhouse, but nothing like Black Forest... it's quite a haul!
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Sean_A

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 05:49:42 AM »
Quote from: wwhitehead on April 24, 2011, 09:34:46 PM
Isn't a routing that doesn't end near the clubhouse essentially unwalkable?

WW

WW

I am with you.  An inconvient walk to the house may be acceptable in extreme or very unusual cases, but certainly not desirable.  To have an 18th a cart ride away is going to struggle imo to be a proper routing.  There are plenty of great courses with less than ideal finishing holes, but slap bang in front of the house; TOC, NB, Sligo, Cruden Bay and Prestwick to name five.  I don't see how creating a huge walk to the house can be considered a good routing especially if like me, you believe that most golfers like to see action around the house.  If I was building a course this would be a point I would refuse to give the archie any leeway on.  To me its absolutely essential to have the course and house as one if we are talking anything like building an ideal course.  

Ciao
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Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2011, 06:50:29 AM »
Moray GC at Lossiemouth has two courses which tend to intertwine and indeed have a couple of holes which crossover each other. The 1st and 18th of the Old course are played in a narrow stretch of land leading to and from the clubhouse. The 1st tee and 18th green for the New course are located beyond the 1st/18th of the Old such that when its quite players playing the New can play the 1st of the Old before teeing off on the New as well as playing the 18th on the Old once they have finished their round.

Niall
 
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Mike_Trenham

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 07:01:42 AM »
Not fair to put Sandhills into this mix.  Everything there starts and ends at Ben's Porch which is the clubhouse of default the other buildings are mostly lodging.
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Jim_Coleman

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2011, 07:44:36 AM »
    The old Tattersoll in West Chester, Pa.  I think it's called Broad Run Golfer's Club now.
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Steve Salmen

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2011, 07:51:51 AM »
Pebble Beach?
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Jud_T

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Re: When 18 Doesn't Come Home
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2011, 08:28:12 AM »
Diamante.  The shuttle picks you up to carry you back up the big hill...
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