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Ian Dalzell

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Good morning everyone,
As the new Golf Professional this year at Huntingdon Valley CC, PA, I have had the privilege to play all 27-holes at HVCC this spring and I want to tell you I have landed in GCA heaven!  This place is unbelievable and as I begin my tenure here I look forward to learning as much as possible about the beginnings of the course and all the nuances that make up a William Flynn design.

The last few days I have gone out for 9-holes late in the day, when the shadows reveal the contouring and the course is quiet enough where you can soak it all up.  What a treat.  I hope to learn how to put photo's on here this year and share in my experiences and opinions.  I am not sure I have seen 27 better greensites on any facility I have ever visited - they are masterful.   It all begins with #1 and the uneven, ball-above-your-feet downhill lie to a green that is running away from you.

There are many on here that know alot more than I, but from a simple golf professionals untrained eye this course has multiple, and I mean multiple championship caliber holes just waiting to be played.  The 18th hole is reminiscent of the finishing hole at Shinnecock, and holes like #1 on the Centennial course or #14 on the Toomey/Flynn course could be slotted into any major championship venue tomorrow.

I welcome your comments from those who have visited in the past, and I look forward to sharing photography of select holes during the course of this summer.

Happy Easter everyone.

Ian

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 09:18:24 AM »
Ian,

Congratulations on your new position! I just played your former haunt, Hidden Creek, and was very impressed by the operation and course itself. I had Mike as my caddie, who did an excellent job and also spoke at length about the program there with the caddiemaster, who spoke very highly of you.

I believe it to be one of the most crucial components to the health of the game and yet many give it short shrift. As I've been doing some research to find areas to improve support for caddie golf, I'd like your take.

Kindly send me your contact details and good time to call. I'll follow up and look forward to a chat.

Happy Easter to you as well!

Cheers,
Kris 8)

P.S.- I'm sorry that my IM message somehow went on the public post. I can be a bit of a cyberdummy and probably hit an inncorrect key. As you can determine from the entire tenor of the rest of my original remarks, those I know and spoke with hold you in high regard. A few folks got excited and got the cross and nails out...it is Easter. Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 02:58:58 PM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 09:40:26 AM »
Ian,

I'm looking forward to the GAP Member Play Day on May 3. Will the C nine be in play then? I've never played it.

I'm sure you've seen this:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/huntingdon-valley/

We await your comments on the course.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Ryan Farrow

Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 10:13:43 AM »
Yes, this place rocks.....

 I tell you what, its a case study in why in the world do modern designers think fairways have to be flat....? The side slopes look and play fantastic,  fair, strategic..... it really opened my eyes and I think its a course any student of architecture must see.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 10:30:10 AM »
Ian,
Contests on the new position -- look forward to hearing more as you learn the course....

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 11:30:31 AM »
Ian,
Chastised in the first reply to your announcement. Only at GCA.  ::)

Congratulations on securing the position, and hopefully you will have a long run at HVCC.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dave Givnish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 11:45:55 AM »
Congratulations on your new position.  I had a chance to play Hidden Creek last spring.  Your staff helped to make it an excellent experience.  We got out ahead of a GAP match as a twosome with a caddie and finished in under 3 hours.  Great fun!

Are you going to put a soft ice cream machine in at HVCC?

Good luck.

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2011, 11:55:35 AM »
Kris,

Being in the golf business that was very unprofessional to make comments like that on a public board.  If you have something to say, send it in a personal message.  Ian is obviously one of the classiest gentlemen in the business, regarding the past job he had, and landing the new one at HVCC.   I am guessing he has quite a full plate of duties he has to handle.  A word of advice if you want to move up the business chain always give the upmost respect to people above you and below you.  

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 12:00:07 PM »
Jim and PFerlicca,

My remarks were to have been sent via IM. Somehow, due to my error, they were sent regular post reply. I certainly was not looking to show Ian in a poor light publicly. What I wrote hardly implies anything harsh, unless the word "surprised" has now joined the list of what constitutes derogatory comments. I appreciate the site-police work.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 12:40:33 PM »
If they were meant as a private message then show some respect and remove the post.

The word "surprised" has nothing to do with it, the airing of a private matter does.

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 03:24:21 PM »
Jim,

I have amended the post just now as I was unaware of the procedure until I invesigated it further. Anyone who knows me would realize that's not my style of responding. While I certainly speak with conviction, it is done with tact. Thanks for your advice.

Cheers,
Kris 8)
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 04:53:18 PM »
Saw your amended first post and your most recent.

You can remove the imaginary nails and climb down now.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 05:23:47 PM »
I'm excited for the Play Day.  We playing 27?  :)

Sam Morrow

Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 05:25:08 PM »
Great to have you on GCA Ian!

Ian Dalzell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 10:05:19 PM »
 :DKris, thanks for your comments re your visit to my former facility, and rest assured I take no offense to your earlier postings, although it is not something I plan on discussing.

Steve, Centennial Nine will absolutely be open - IM me and I can arrange for you to play it either before or after your GAP Play Day round.

Dave, even better than the ice cream machine are the world famous Milkshakes that Delroy makes in our 19th hole - delicious!

Dan, same as Steve, IM me and I can make arrangements for you to play the Centennial.  I'm sure you are not surprised that the GAP Play Day sold out fairly quickly.

Sam, you and I will see each other later this year my friend.  Looking forward to it.


Cheers everyone.

Ian

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 11:04:18 PM »

I would imagine that the club doesn't have anything like this (ca.1900) on it today.  ;D

 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sam Morrow

Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2011, 12:27:25 AM »
:DKris, thanks for your comments re your visit to my former facility, and rest assured I take no offense to your earlier postings, although it is not something I plan on discussing.

Steve, Centennial Nine will absolutely be open - IM me and I can arrange for you to play it either before or after your GAP Play Day round.

Dave, even better than the ice cream machine are the world famous Milkshakes that Delroy makes in our 19th hole - delicious!

Dan, same as Steve, IM me and I can make arrangements for you to play the Centennial.  I'm sure you are not surprised that the GAP Play Day sold out fairly quickly.

Sam, you and I will see each other later this year my friend.  Looking forward to it.


Cheers everyone.

Ian


Hmmm, milkshakes, if they are anything like what I had at Castle Pines then I am SOL.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 10:57:44 AM »
Back in late 2008 I had a photo tour thread on HVCC, and it is still available on the site, but someone has linked some pics using an inactive account and annoying log in windows keep appearing.  Hence, I'm pretty much copying and pasting the first post from that thread, which includes some photos, to Ian's thread.


With our recent thread linking to video of "king of firm and fast" supe Scott Anderson at HV talking about course maintenance, I thought some selected photos of mine from a recent visit (late November) to this special place is in order.  I'm thankful for the opportunity given to me to see all three nines and snap a few photos.  The lighting for many of the holes was wonderful and subtle contours of some of the fairways and greens can be detected.  All 190+ photos are available as a photo album here (where my commentary is included, which was aided greatly by fellow GolfClubAtlas members Matt O'Brien and Kyle Harris):

http://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Huntingdon/index.html

HV has three nines that some call the A, B, and C nines.  I'll do so here as well.  Most people consider the "18 hole" layout at HVCC to be the A and B nines, with the C nine (the Centennial nine a nice tough bonus!).  :)

And don't forget to read the excellent write-up by Ran on HVCC here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/huntingdonvalley1.html

A_No1 (par 4)



A_No2 (par 4)



A_No3 (one-time Redan-ish par 3)



A_No4 (par 4)



A_No5 (par 3)



A_No6 (par 4)



A_No7 (par 5)





A_No8 (par 4)



A_No9 (par 4)







B_No1 (par 4)





B_No2 (par 4)







B_No3 (par 4)



B_No4 (par 3)



B_No5 (par 4)





B_No6 (par 5)



B_No7 (par 4)





B_No8 (par 3)



B_No9 (par 4)









Okay, now on to the hardest of the three nines, the C nine, also called the Centennial nine.

C_No1 (par 4)



C_No2 (par 4)







This pin position was devilish!



C_No3 (par 5)





C_No4 (par 3)





C_No5 (par 4)





C_No6 (par 3)





C_No7 (par 4)



Did you notice the big great blue heron near the bridge on the last pic?  Well, that fellow crop dusted me as he went by!





(we're starting to run out of light now....)

C_No8 (par 4)



C_No9 (par 4)



I took this one as we walked from B_No9 to C_No1 as I knew we would be short on light:



I hope you enjoyed the tour.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Ed Oden

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 11:25:02 AM »
Congratulations Ian.  HVCC is a special place.  Aside from having just about the best maintenance meld I have seen anywhere, the design is really top notch.  One observation.  I'm not sure that the C nine isn't the best on the property.  However, since the A nine cants almost entirely right to left and the B nine cants almost entirely left to right, they seem to balance each other out to make for a better 18 than if they are paired with the C nine.  Any thoughts?

JMEvensky

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 11:26:38 AM »
Joe,I did enjoy the tour and thanks for posting it,along with all the others you've posted.

You Philly guys have a wealth of golf course riches to choose from.I bet I'm not the only one here who envies that.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2011, 12:46:23 PM »
Here is the routing at HVCC:



A direct link to the larger image of the routing is here:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3290/3127250331_42390e3145_o.jpg

I also think this VirtualReality QuickTime movie is pretty neat and nicely shows the valley where the A and B nines are located.  This was taken near the left fw bunkers on A #7.  After it loads in your browser, click on the image and drag to move around.  You can even zoom in and out with certain keys.

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/HVCC_4GCA/panorama.mov
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Bill Shotzbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 03:39:43 PM »
On my way home from Mannies yesterday I drove down Paper Mill Rd to check out the Valley. The course looked great. Are there any hangover effects from last summer's shutdown?

Carl Nichols

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Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2011, 11:18:37 AM »
I've never played HVCC, and perhaps the pictures don't do it justice, and perhaps the design is enhanced by the maintenance meld, but it doesn't look as good [from the pictures] as I would have expected from the comments on here and that I've heard elsewhere.  What am I missing?

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Huntingdon Valley Country Club - What a Case Study in Architecture!
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 12:38:18 PM »
Carl,

  In two words, a lot.  There is such a wonderful mix of holes and shots found here-uphill, downhill, sidehill shots to be had here.  It's never a course where you feel "ach, another long par four", or "another forced carry".  The holes all play slightly different.  I feel it's routed so well, the holes lay gently on the land.  
The player has a so many options available to them-bounce the ball in, fly it to the hole (although, take caution as HV can play very firm).  At no point, at least in my experience, does the course feel forced or a hole out of place.  There is a great rhythm to the routing and variation in holes.  It's a tremendous challenge to play well, but most importantly, at the same time, it's fun to play.  The phrase "good members course" is sometimes used as a backhanded compliment to describe certain courses.   I'm not a member, but I can see how it is enjoyable for daily play by the members, a good members course indeed, while maintaining the unique ability to be dialed up and  test the best players in the district or a state.  So, in my usage of the statement here, not a backhanded compliment at all.  And it does it without being, I feel, penal or hard by use of trickery or being artificial.  The caliber of player this club has turned out over the years is certainly a testament to that.  
Actually, I think it's a hard course, but one of the most enjoyable places I have played.  Apart from #13, it's very hard to lose a golf ball. I daresay the word "fair".   I'm not a great player, I carry a 13 hcp, as a point of reference, but in my opinion, it certainly passes Pat Mucci's test of wanting to go back to the 1st tee, from the 18th green, and play again.  

« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 09:05:56 PM by Doug Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
I played HV for the first time yesterday, and I feel like a teenager with a crush.  I LOVE this golf course!

The course may be the best "fit" into its own environment I've ever seen.  It looks like God meant for Flynn to build HVCC exactly where it is.  It fits perfectly into the small valley (hollow?) and gives an almost Augusta feel of isolation from the real world.

The fairway slopes are genius and play with your mind...  "Let's see - I need to hit a cut off a hook lie???"   The opposite is also true on other holes.  The greens are firm and fast and the speed can cause sweaty palms and sighs of anticipation.

Of course, this is all as good as it gets on a golf course.

I'm with Doug - this is definitely a course I could play day after day and never grow bored. 

When we were leaving we ended up on the far side of the clubhouse and I got a look at #9 on the Centennial course.  Needless to say it just made me stare in awe.  I can only imagine what else is out there on that 9.

Amazing, beautiful, and exciting.  Now you know why I have a crush on a friggin' golf course!  :)

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