10,000 hours tp become a golf pro?

[Steve Wilson]

 http://www.tampabay.com/features/can-a-complete-novice-become-a-golf-pro-with-10000-hours-of-practice/1159357

I apologize if this has been posted or remarked on before.  While I find the concept interesting I bow to the judgment of those who are either teachers or top notch players.  How good can you get with practice (assuming it is productive practice)?  And how rigid is the ceiling.  The most maddening thing about this is assuming that Dan McLaughlin sticks with his regimen for the hours, we will have to wait another five or six years to know if he succeeded.

What's the biggest improvement any of us has ever experienced through lessons and dedications?  Has anyone gone from a 10 to +2 for instance.   Years ago I read a statement made by a well know teacher that a five handicap was closer to a 15 than to a 2.   Intuitively I accepted that because I recognized that each step up the ladder was a longer reach than the one below?

Is this guy just spinning his wheels or can he, at the very least, become a good player through this dedication?

[Tom_Doak]

It's not just a matter of anyone practicing 10,000 hours to become a virtuoso at something.  [The other old saw which is relevant concerns 10,000 monkeys and 10,000 typewriters.]  There is a lot of natural selection involved, too -- you have to have some natural talent, and you have to have drive.  And it would help to start the 10,000 hours when you're still a teenager.

[John_Conley]

Wow, that's crazy.  What I found most interesting was the teaching method that has him starting at the hole and working outward, exclusively.  It would seem to me that so many shots are based off the same swing that I'd want a sound swing to be my foundation.

Observations:

1)  The "10,000 Hour Rule" is in vogue, but Gladwell's comments also mentioned that maybe the true gift is finding someone that wants to put in that kind of time.  Bill Joy, Bill Gates, the Beatles, concert musicians.  Doesn't sound like this guy likes golf, so how passion-filled can those practice hours be?

2)  Art and business are not sport.  Guys like Joy and Gates weren't competing in a zero-sum I-win-you-lose game.  They were possibly competing, but it was to expand the frontier.  The Beatles were artists.  Golf?  This guy, to play professionally, doesn't just need to master proficiency.  He needs to have a cut-your-heart-out mindset like Lanny Wadkins, Curtis Strange, David Toms, or Tiger Woods to be successful.  (Those are names an actual Tour pro told me were super-competitive and would run you over in the parking lot they wanted to win so badly.)

3)  A Microsoft retiree, I think Chris Peters, tried this but with bowling.  (He now owns the PBA I think.)  The article made a trace reference to it, but there is a huge problem with putting your 10,000 hours in at such an older age.  A thousand a year for 10 years from age 11 to 20 would be better.  Not to mention, physically his body could break down when he starts working on the full swing.

4)  Muscle memory is made easier with the presence of a thick myelin sheath.  As I understand it, your body fires electricity to signal the muscles.  An uncoordinated guy does nothave a fast current.  By repeating something - piano, shooting free throws, swingng a golf club - the body forms a layer of insulation to coat the nerve.  This myelin sheath can be built up with thousands of hours of practice as a kid.  Hopefully this guy was working on a similar hobby at that age.

Best of luck.  It'd be a great story if he plays even the minitours.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Bad News = 10K hours to become a pro
Good Newss = Just another two hours to become a golf course architect!

[jeffwarne]

Would it really be a great story if he makes the minitours?
10000 hours is a full time job for 5 years.
Plenty of kids go from  beginner to scratch from age 11 to 16 with a lot less hours than that.
But the minitours isn't TOUR level golf--that would take incredible talent, and a lot more work and competitive experience than he has time.

as far as his goal of being a "pro" , there are plenty of pros that are 5 handicaps that make their living from the industry, but not from playing-that's certainly doable.

based on his record, I'd say he quits before he can break 80 (it sounds to me like he's counting hours, not building a passion)

[RJ_Daley]

Jeff, that quip ought to be on golf channel 'shot of the day'. 

I predict if this guy really sticks to the 10,000 hours, his orthopedic or hand surgeon makes more money on his golf than he ever will.

[Pat Burke]

I've started a response 5 times.  Have worked with some naturally gifted people,
and some real beauties. 
Ten years after stopping practicing, I can play 5-6 holes that make the hair on my neck stand up, it is so good.
Two holes later, can't hit my ass with both hands

10,000 hours to be proficient.  Proficient doesn't get it done, there has to be some magic sprinkled in, usually between the ears.

My magic was desperation.  I spent my career with my ass against a wall trying to pay bills and "make it".  Was too pig headed to give up.

My daughter is a musician, can pick up most instruments, mess around for a bit, and it sounds musical.
Certain things come to people, I can't play a radio

[Ronald Montesano]

Pat Burke, Irishman...thanks for the laughs and the truths!

[Phil McDade]

For the seven years leading up to the Bejing Olympics, Michael Phelps did not take a single day off from swim practice. Not one.

But, from everything I've read and talked with coaches about swimming, that alone didn't lead to 8 gold medals. He's a physical freak (a perfect body for long-course swimming), uncommonly driven, extremely well-coached, supported by a strong-willed family, and open to ideas about how to improve. (Some of the same attributes that Bill Simmons suggests made Michael Jordan the premier basketball player of our age.)

I'd be surprised if the golfer makes it to even the mini-tours.

[John Kavanaugh]

When I first joined this site I knew little about golf architecture and nothing about writing.  10,000 hours later I am one of the finest minds in golf.  It can be done.

[Tim Martin]

http://www.tampabay.com/features/can-a-complete-novice-become-a-golf-pro-with-10000-hours-of-practice/1159357
Is this guy just spinning his wheels or can he, at the very least, become a good player through this dedication?

If he has some natural talent he should certainly become a good player but the jury is out on becoming a pro. Must be kinda like getting hit in the face with a hot mop when the day comes and he realizes "hey I`m halfway there and I`ve only got 5,000 more hours to go. The kid must be sitting on a fat inheritance.

[MikeJones]

Personally I think the idea that you can pick an arbitrary number and say that anyone could be an expert in anything in that time is ludicrous and how do you define an expert anyway?

A naturally talented person could reach scratch with much less time than 10,000 hours if he worked on the right things and some people would never make it past 10 handicap in the same amount of time. Some tour pros don't practice much at all, some spend virtually every waking minute on the practice area.

There is no magic formula for success apart from writing crappy books about magic formulas.

[Adam Clayman]

How much time folding shirts?

How about 30K to become a D1 college player?

Yup, Some school on Hilton Head takes HS kids and their parents for a ride.

Hank Haney even shows up once a month for that hands on approach.

[John Kavanaugh]

I hope you guys don't talk this way to your children. Sounds like how Doak became an architect.

[Jud_T]

Interesting from an academic perspective perhaps.  And the guy seems like enough of a loner to see it through.  But you can't practice talent and feel.  My son plays drums.  The kid's a natural, but's it's a struggle to get him to practice.  Another kid in our area practices his instrument many hours a day and is quite proficient and plays with the best jazz groups for his age.  But the kid simply doesn't swing and will never amount to much more than a middling musician or teacher IMHO.  Tiger and MJ had more than an incredible work ethic, focus and killer instinct.  They had god-given talent and physical ability.

[John Kavanaugh]

The six hours a day can not include playing. That is why it is called playing.

[Padraig Dooley]

It's 10,000 hours and 10 years of work to become an expert in a given field. Doing 10,000 hours in less than 10 years won't speed up the process it will still take 10 years.

However for golf there is a lot of crossover between other sports and can count towards the time required e.g. American Football quarter backs make good golfers, the motion required to throw the football is very similar to the weight transfer motion in golf.

As for people who talk about natural talent, it doesn't really exist by which I mean unless there is a physical impediment (e.g unless you're 6 foot 7 or higher you can rule out the NBA) the only thing stopping a person from playing sports at the highest level is work.

The interesting thing from our perspective is do the architects on the site feel they clocked 10,000 hours of work to reach the high level they're at?

[Padraig Dooley]

The six hours a day can not include playing. That is why it is called playing.

John, the best form of practice is playing, so time spent playing is included in the 10,000 hours.

[Jud_T]

Padraig,

Are you saying anyone who works hard enough at it can play the PGA tour successfully? Cause IMHO that's a load of crap....

[Rory Connaughton]

This reminds me of Tom Coyne's very entertaining book "Paper Tiger".  Tom spent close to a year in Naples working with Jim Suttie in an attempt to get from 14 to a plus handicap so he could take a shot at Q school.  He did become a plus handicap but was not accepted at PGA Tour Q School. Did make it to Canadian Tour, Tour of the Americas and Australasian Q schools and various other qualifying tournaments (US Open etc).  One of the great things about the book is that Tom does a terrific job of describing just how massive the difference is between scratch and real players and how the mindset that allows one to "go low" is so totally different from the mindset of 99.9% of other golfers.

In fairness, Tom was a pretty decent junior so his 14 was probably not reflective of his actual ability when he started.

[Padraig Dooley]

Padraig,

Are you saying anyone who works hard enough at it can play the PGA tour successfully? Cause IMHO that's a load of crap....

Jud

What I'm saying nobody has played on tour without hard work. A requirement to become an expert is hard work and specifically deliberate practice. If somebody works hard enough and correctly they will play on tour.

[George Pazin]

Didn't take Larry Nelson that long...

Generalizations like the 10,000 hour thing are always ridiculous (note the irony of a comment on generalizations...). People are different, no matter how much some folks want them all to be the same. Some will succeed with minimal work, others will never succeed.

One last thing specific to this guy: he'll be going up against a lot of guys who also put in the time.

[John Kavanaugh]

The six hours a day can not include playing. That is why it is called playing.

John, the best form of practice is playing, so time spent playing is included in the 10,000 hours.

Sorry but no, he said he was practicing six hours per day for six years.  If that includes playing he is just a golf bum.  If he practices 6, plays 6, trains 4 and sleeps 8 hours per day for six years he will make it.  The only key is that he will have to love doing it.

[Padraig Dooley]

Didn't take Larry Nelson that long...

Generalizations like the 10,000 hour thing are always ridiculous (note the irony of a comment on generalizations...). People are different, no matter how much some folks want them all to be the same. Some will succeed with minimal work, others will never succeed.

One last thing specific to this guy: he'll be going up against a lot of guys who also put in the time.

George

If I rememer correctly Larry Neson started playing at 21 and was on tour at 27. What you would have to do in his situation is look at what he was doing before he started playing. I have no doubt that the sports he played were of major benefit to his golf and would be included in the minimum requirement of 10,000 and 10 years.

The minimum requirement is 10,000 hours and 10 years, Bobby Fischer broke that rule it took him 9 years 7 months to become an expert at chess. I don't know of anybody else who has succeeded without doing at least that amount of work

The people who put in the work and don't succeed are working on the wrong things.

[Peter Pallotta]

At the very least, he can then edit down 10,000 hours of videotape into a 2 hour documentary.