Template Hole Madness! - Redan - Taking Nominations!!!

[Scott Szabo]

Looking for a picture of the 4th at Wild Horse.

Tony,

What about the 13th as well?  Love that hole.

[jonathan_becker]

I have not played Kiawah in many years, but there is no way that Hole 8 is Redan. Nae kick mound, nae Redan, IMO.  Nice hole though.

The 14th (imo) isn't a redan, either.   You can't run the ball up onto the green as the slopes are too steep.  It's an elevated green.

But both 8 and 14 are fantastic holes!

[Howard Riefs]

I have not played Kiawah in many years, but there is no way that Hole 8 is Redan. Nae kick mound, nae Redan, IMO.  Nice hole though.

The 14th (imo) isn't a redan, either.   You can't run the ball up onto the green as the slopes are too steep.  It's an elevated green.

But both 8 and 14 are fantastic holes!

Good feedback. Since my nomination from Kiawah was soundly refuted, I'll offer a substitute:

Shoreacres
14th Hole
185 Yards

From Ran's write up and photos:

Fourteenth hole, 185 yards; A completely manufactured Redan hole, and none the worse for it. Raynor pushed up a tenfoot high ridge and the pitch on its shoulder is as steep as any of his Redans. On the left side are two deep bunkers which in this case may be saviors for the teeball tugged a little left: the same bloody ravine (!) is only a few paces from the edge of these bunkers. The green itself is the only safe haven as it is reasonably flat.


The back left hole location on the Redan is best reached by using the kicker slope...


...which is better appreciated in this view from behind the built-up green pad.

[jonathan_becker]

Thatta boy, Howard!

[Simon Holt]

4th at National is best copy/replica/inspired by I have played.  Apparently some say the 3rd at PV is a Redan but I didnt pick up on it when I played there.  Nice hole though!

15th at NB, original and best     The dip before the green makes the hole for me due to the huge variety of second shots if you miss the green and the added option of a chaser off the back of the bunkers with your tee shot.  The kicker is also right on the green at the front rather than before the green at NGLA.

I will fight this corner hard!!

[Howard Riefs]

Thatta boy, Howard!

Thanks, Jonathan. Figure I'd stay closer to home this time. Shoreacres is 20 miles up the road from me.

[Mike Hendren]

Richard, I suggest a separate contest for Naders.

I also agree that what is considered a redan in this country bears only limited likeness fo the original at North Berwick's West Links. 

Mike

[Matt_Ward]

A few others of note ...

2nd at Somerset Hills (NJ) - along with the one from NGL the best of the bunch in the NYC metro area in my mind.

7th at Banks Course / Forsgate (NJ) *One of the rare "reverse" redan type holes.

3rd at Knoll / West (NJ)

[Mike Hendren]

Matt, good call on the nader at Forsgate.  I watched two older gentlemen play that hole like a fiddle. They did not have enough distance to carry the green but used the cant of the fairway to work around the deep front bunker, finishing 20 feet from a front right pin location. 

The hole "functioned" as well as any I've seen.

Mike

 

[Dan Boerger]

4th at Swinley ... certainly "redan-ish". Sorry, I'm too incompetent to post pics!

[Jim Nugent]

The ninth hole at North Shore CC

Brett, this hole looks wild to me.  How does it play?

[Bill Brightly]

Thatta boy, Howard!

Ditto, Way to get off the deck Howard!

Now all I have to do is wait for someone to nominate #7 at Shinny...

[Scott Warren]

Has anyone nominated 4 at Riviera yet? If not, let me be the one who does.

Fantastic hole, and every inch a redan.

[Howard Riefs]

Thatta boy, Howard!

Ditto, Way to get off the deck Howard!

Thanks, Bill.

Raynor made Shoreacres chock full of template holes. It will be easy to go back to the well for future THM nominations.

[Bill Brightly]

Thatta boy, Howard!

Ditto, Way to get off the deck Howard!

Thanks, Bill.

Raynor made Shoreacres chock full of template holes. It will be easy to go back to the well for future THM nominations.

No doubt about it! I am still a little mad at my son for breaking up with a girl whose father belongs to Shoreacres...My son did get to play it, so I had to give him a crash course on Raynor and the templates before he got on the plane! (He loved it!)

[Phil McDade]

The 13th at Blue Mound G&CC, a faithfully maintained Raynor in suburban Milwaukee (and one of two courses being used for this year's US Amateur Championship in conjunction w/ Erin Hills). This is from my write-up of a year ago:

#13 (par 3, 185,178 – Redan)
All pretenders to Redans across the country ought to make a pilgrimage to Blue Mound to see the real thing. It’s all here – the kick-bank right, the angled green tilted sharply away from the golfer, the deep and penal bunker guarding the entrance left. Although I didn’t get a picture of it, an enormous bunker – the largest on the course – sits at the backside, and well below, the kicker ramp and green.


The green is deep but narrow by Blue Mound standards.


A golfer too bold with his use of the kicker bank contemplates a shot that barely dodged a dicier fate in the bunker.

[Richard Choi]

Phil, thnaks for the info. I see a strong seeding for this hole...

[Steve Lapper]

A few others of note ...

2nd at Somerset Hills (NJ) - along with the one from NGL the best of the bunch in the NYC metro area in my mind.

7th at Banks Course / Forsgate (NJ) *One of the rare "reverse" redan type holes.

3rd at Knoll / West (NJ)

Matt is spot on here....Add Piping Rock and Shinny and that's the best of the Northeast.
Somerset's and NGLA's kicker are the most dramatic of all I've seen mentioned so far.

[Steve Lapper]

Nothing tops North Berwick 15

[Phil McDade]

Phil, thnaks for the info. I see a strong seeding for this hole...

Richard:

It's the real deal; a terrific Redan.

I'm going to submit another one soon that I'd argue for inclusion only to start an argument.

[Phil McDade]

The 4th at Lawsonia, and the let the debates begin.

(The following is culled from Dan Moore's definitive thread on Lawsonia from a few years ago. I have long argued the 4th at Lawsonia plays very much like a Redan, and has several of its defining characteristics, although others argue (and I think they are correct) that it lacks some of the definitive traits of a Redan, notably the significant green tilt and kicker bank. I've taken to calling it "Redan-esque," and have included it for submission as a potential candidate in this series because of its Redan-like characteristics ((more closely aligned with a classic Redan than some submitted here, I'd argue).)

Here goes:

4th Hole 203/175 (205)

A  fine hole, one of two long par 3’s intended to test one long iron and fairway wood play.  The holes plays 1-2 clubs uphill to another large oval green whose surface is blind from the tee.  With a large bunker at the base of the green giving the hole the look of a Redan, the hole does not posses the right to left angle and cant of the green required of a Redan.  It may look like a Redan, but if it doesn’t play like a Redan, IMHO it is not a Redan.  Redan or not, it is a great hole, one of the strongest and most unique on the course.

4th  Hole Drawing


4th From Tee (Brent Carlson first photo)


4th Look Back

4th From Right Side

[Bill Brightly]

A few others of note ...

2nd at Somerset Hills (NJ) - along with the one from NGL the best of the bunch in the NYC metro area in my mind.

7th at Banks Course / Forsgate (NJ) *One of the rare "reverse" redan type holes.

3rd at Knoll / West (NJ)

Matt is spot on here....Add Piping Rock and Shinny and that's the best of the Northeast.
Somerset's and NGLA's kicker are the most dramatic of all I've seen mentioned so far.

Shinny had a  Macdonald Redan, but Flynn took it out. I KNEW someone would call it a Redan....

And by the way, Ran is wrong in his write-up, Flynn did alter this hole, I have seen his drawings. It was a classic Redan with a much deeper green and longer bunkers. The bunker you now see on the right is where the kick mound was, and Macdonald's rear bunker has been removed (or shifted to the right, if you will.)

Still a great par 3, but nae Redan!

[David Kelly]

St. Louis CC's Reverse Redan #16:






more North Berwick pics:

[Charlie Visconsi]

Three good ones:

Yale #13
MOC #17
Kinglsley #16; you can play the ball 40 yards to the right of the green and it will filter down.

[Kevin Pallier]

Has anyone nominated 4 at Riviera yet? If not, let me be the one who does.

Fantastic hole, and every inch a redan.

Gee whiz Scott - how much of post #29 did you actually read ?

Already covered it mate