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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Decide which hole is the best of the best when it comes to Alps and guide what characteristics truly defines Alps.

Voting will continue till Friday EOD.

Seed #1 - Prestwick 17th

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 391 yards

Why: The original. The hole is so good others decided to copy it. Nuff said.






Best Comment:

This seeding worked out perfectly for me, since I've played both Yeamans Hall and Prestwick.

Prestwick's 17th is pure fun from tee to green.  The tee shot is not highly strategic, but I like the drive because the landing area is wide enough so, even after a wayward tee shot, players will have a chance to take on the Alps approach.  The green itself exists out of prescription in that fits beautifully between two large dunes.  While modern architects might have seen the need to bulldoze the dune in front of the green, the 17th green is just there, with the dugout bunker standing as the hole's only artificiality.

The second shot can only be described as thrilling.  During my day at Prestwick, the wind was howling in my face.  This meant that I had to rip a two-iron into the green on both tries, despite the hole being under 400 yards.  The sight of the golf ball disappearing over the dune is surely one of the greatest feelings in golf, as is scrambling to the top of the hill to see the result.  A poorly played shot may find the bunker, but a solid hit will either come to rest on the green or in an awkward position off the putting surface.

It is not until the player gets past the famous Alps bunker that things get really interesting.  The green is a rippling halfpipe.  Any shot that does not find the perfect position relative to the flag will leave a difficult recovery.  However, taking the blindness of the second shot into account, the green's sideboards always allow the creative golfer a legitimate chance for an up-and-down.  It is great fun to play pitch shots and long putts well to the side of the hole and watch them drift back towards the pin.  Each of the two times I played this hole, I spent 10 to 15 minutes around the green trying all sorts of shots.  The endless array of shot game options, combined with the thrill of the blind second, is what makes the Alps at Prestwick so timeless.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 11:02:56 AM by Richard Choi »

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 11:48:54 PM »
Seed #2 - NGLA 3rd

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 426 yards

Why: From Ran – “Macdonald’s homage to the Alps at Prestwick is an improvement on the original as the drive holds more interest. The approach over the top of a fescue covered hill is one where it is difficult for the golfer not to look up and sneek a peek before he has completed the downswing. The35 yardwide (!) green has some twenty yards of fairway in front of it, just enough room and margin of error for a long approach. The vast green is fiercely contoured and four putts can occur. The author considers the approach the game’s finest blind shot.”






Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 01:04:21 AM »
I will vote for the 3rd at The National.  It's just as heroic as the original hole, by virtue of its added length and the size of the hill; but the optional route adds a bit of interest for the 50% of players who can't get there in two.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 04:23:19 AM »
Another vote for #3 NGLA

The room & fairway short and to the left is a real plus for mine. Plus, the option of going right but still having an awkward little carry across the green is another tick in my book.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 08:21:23 AM »
Great final Match, but NGLA pulls ahead and takes my vote.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 12:09:54 PM »
NGLA
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

C. Sturges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 01:23:55 PM »
I want to vote for both!  I have to give it a tie, I birdied both.
Chris

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 01:50:55 PM »
If I were to come up with a list of 25 holes that I would like to play, I think this one would be at the top.

I vote for NGLA.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 02:40:17 PM »
Richard,

My vote is for # 3 at NGLA.

In your presentation you seem to focus on the unique bunker at Prestwick.

At NGLA, the tee shot is exciting and requires a choice, a plan for attacking the hole.
The diagonal bunker off the tee, coupled with the tall fescue ascending the hill fronting the DZ put a premium on the drive and your choice in terms of the line of play AND distance.

Once safely in the DZ, your second shot is influenced by your lie.
Uphill, downhilll or sidehill.
The second shot also tends to be longer.
And, the second shot requires far more trajectory.

I also think the green on # 3 is far more complex, it's one of those greens within a green as you have the far right upper plateau, the lower left bowl, the back upper tier and the contours connecting these areas.

The bunkering is also diverse, with the deep right side bunker flanking the green and the bunkers fronting and offset from the green.

Both holes are wonderful holes, and I would ask responders to think of the question of  preference in the context of repeat play.

Which hole would you prefer to play on a daily basis.

For me, it's # 3 at NGLA by quite a margin

Michael Ryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 03:19:53 PM »
I've played each once, and it's NGLA for me.  I absolutely loved the setting and history of Prestwick and I do give a lot of credit to the hole that is the original....however I have to give the overall nod to NGLA.  I was surprised at how narrow a drive zone there is on Prestwick's #17 and think the width of the DZ and options presented on at the 3rd at NGLA make it a better and more interesting hole from tee to green.  Could play each of them countless more times....

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 06:14:15 PM »
Of these two, I've only played Prestwick, but given the wider range of options that seem to be presented I'm voting for NLGA. While a great hole, the Alps at Prestwick really begins after the tee shot. The added options from the tee described by those of you who have played NGLA have convinced me that it is superior. Can't wait to see it some day!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 11:40:51 AM »
Wow, 8-0 NGLA so far. That is a bit surprising to me. Is this because of the diagonal element of the design?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 11:49:03 PM »
Wow, 8-0 NGLA so far. That is a bit surprising to me. Is this because of the diagonal element of the design?

No, the layup option.  IMHO.  I vote for NGLA too.

Pat Howard

Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2011, 12:56:09 AM »
I've only played the original, so it gets my vote! They both look great, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....

Melvyn Morrow

Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2011, 11:47:39 AM »
Richard

I must vote for the original, I love it and with the feeling of just driving into Prestwick Car Park it has to get my vote even though I have never played any course in America - but then why should I when we have the originals here.

Perhaps for me it’s different compared to many others but like coming home, it’s a friend waiting to greet me, so I have to give it my vote - Prestwick is a great course and using the right equipment its ranks IMHO as one of the handful of top courses in the world - to judge, just play Prestwick twice in the same day.

Melvyn

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2011, 02:09:47 PM »

  Prestwick.   

  NGLA may be a better hole but it's not the Alps.  I don't care what they call it.

  I don't know the evolution of Prestwick's Alps hole but it looks from the bird's eye photo that there is room to the left for a shorter club bulged landing zone fairway.  I don't think that's sacrilege, either.  That said, I can't remember the terrain over there - it's been ten years since I played it "twice in one day".
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2011, 02:30:35 PM »
Richard

I must vote for the original, I love it and with the feeling of just driving into Prestwick Car Park it has to get my vote even though I have never played any course in America - but then why should I when we have the originals here.

Perhaps for me it’s different compared to many others but like coming home, it’s a friend waiting to greet me, so I have to give it my vote - Prestwick is a great course and using the right equipment its ranks IMHO as one of the handful of top courses in the world - to judge, just play Prestwick twice in the same day.

Melvyn


Melvyn, I'd love to play Prestwick someday and see for myself, but nothing in the above has anything to do with the actual hole (and as you admit, you haven't played NGLA).

Given your rationale, is it fair to say that you'd vote for any hole at Prestwick over any other hole on any course?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2011, 02:54:04 PM »
I'll go against the mainstream here.

They both look like wickedly awesome holes, but being the original creator and having the keyonnes to build something like that gets my vote.

Prestwick for me.

P.S.  Richard do you have a photo of the view of the approach into that hole from the fairway?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 02:56:43 PM by Kalen Braley »

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 03:03:18 PM »
Sorry, this is all the photos I could find...

Melvyn Morrow

« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 09:50:56 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2011, 04:22:39 PM »
The 3:30 mark in that video shows it...cool stuff!!  ;D

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 10:20:07 PM »
I've only played the original, so it gets my vote! They both look great, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....

Pat

Is that always the case ?

Melvyn Morrow

Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2011, 05:16:20 AM »
Kevin

Yes, in a civilised world

Melvyn

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2011, 11:02:12 AM »
NGLA wins 9 to 4 against Prestwick!!!

Thanks to all those who participated and contributed to these threads. I learned alot and I hope others have as well.

Redan is next!

Melvyn Morrow

Re: THM! Alps Finals! #1 Prestwick 17th vs #2 NGLA 3rd - NGLA WINS!
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2011, 11:13:28 AM »

FIX: FIX: FIX: FIX: FIX Come on Richards you can't close early becasuse Prestwick is catching up FIX FIX FIX FIX :P :P :P :P

Melvyn

 

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