Lee Trevinon on AGNC

[David_Tepper]

"Augusta National may be a lot of things, but a great course isn't one of them."

http://globeandmail.golfcanada.ca/professional-tours/pga-tour/?articleId=1963117

[Kalen Braley]

I can't help but think this is almost entirely sour grapes.  This topic comes up every year, but I rarely see mentioned the fact that he had his chance to win there BEFORE  they made all the "awful" changes, but he never could.  So all this course bashing in retrospect looks very suspect.  And so in his words, the course is not "great" because he couldn't figure it out.

This is just me.... but no sympathy here for Trevino or his "thoughts" on ANGC.


P.S.  "“I ask people to name me a great hole at Augusta,” Trevino said. “Number three and number 12, that’s it. Great tournament, great venue, great history. But it’s not a great course.”

So I guess #13, arguably the greatest par 5 on the planet,  is dog meat?   

[jeffwarne]

"Augusta National may be a lot of things, but a great course isn't one of them."

http://globeandmail.golfcanada.ca/professional-tours/pga-tour/?articleId=1963117

So his entire arguement is that the first hole is too long....
With players ROUTINELY hitting it 320 how would that hole play from the old tee
Driver- chip shot.
Nothing wrong with that but no doubt not the way it was designed.
They actually did move the tee back up slightly.

No doubt Trevino felt a bit awkward at the elitist Augusta, and it showed in his play.
the course as it's presented today would've actually favored Trevino-witness the recent shorter hitters who have won laying up all week at Augusta.

[JESII]

I've heard it said a hundred times that Trevino's game didn't match well with Augusta. I've also heard it said a hundred times that along with Hogan and a very few others he's included among the most elite echelon of ball strikers to have ever played. I've never heard it said that his chipping or putting were weaknesses so is it fair to assume they were each satisfactory for an elite player?

What gives?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

He stresses today's course but also says, "it never was a great golf course."  Okay, he doesn't have good feelings.  I understand he didn't feel comfortable there and didn't think it fit his game, but it is not as good nor has it ever been as good at Baltusrol or Medinah?

By the way for anyone who has played it, the dramatic need to hit it right to left is amazing.  Until he was a senior he was a left to right player.  As a rule I love his quotes about golf, but I think he wishes the tournament didn't have the impact on golf that it does(he couldn't win there) and this is clouding his judgement.

Also, hasn't he been quoted as saying he regrets never having tried harder to win there?  Claims that maybe he could have fared better with a better attitude.

[David_Tepper]

"I've never heard it said that his chipping or putting were weaknesses so is it fair to assume they were each satisfactory for an elite player?"

Jim Sullivan -

I believe Trevino had a very, very good short game and was likely a better pitcher, chipper and putter than Hogan. But that is simply an impression/guess on my part.

DT

[Andy Stamm]

It may be sour grapes. But, he didn't play in the tournament 4 times in his prime, and I'm pretty sure he was invited each of those 4 times.

So, he either didn't like the course, or the tournament or something. And, obviously he didn't think it suited his game. But I think it says a lot that he didn't even play.

P.S.
I've heard him say recently that he wished he had played those times.

[JMEvensky]

I've heard it said a hundred times that Trevino's game didn't match well with Augusta. I've also heard it said a hundred times that along with Hogan and a very few others he's included among the most elite echelon of ball strikers to have ever played. I've never heard it said that his chipping or putting were weaknesses so is it fair to assume they were each satisfactory for an elite player?

What gives?

Same here--it's hard to reconcile Trevino as a great ballstriker with Trevino being unable to hit it high or right to left.He could hit it sideways if he wanted.

I'm in the "bad attitude" camp.Whether or not he was justified in his perceived slights,I have no clue.

[JESII]

Gotta to say, a perfectly pure ball striker that can only hit it left-to-right could still play the 13th with some success if they're that good...and I doubt Trevino couldn't hit it right-to-left on occassion if he wanted.

[Dan Smoot]

Gotta to say, a perfectly pure ball striker that can only hit it left-to-right could still play the 13th with some success if they're that good...and I doubt Trevino couldn't hit it right-to-left on occassion if he wanted.

I am sorry about Lee's feelings about Augusta.  I have a great respect for his background, his incredible ball striking skills and his golfing accomplishments.

With no intention to discredit any past winner, if Goalby, Brewer, Coody or Archer could win the Masters about the time Lee was hitting his stride on Tour,  Lee could have done the same.  I have always wondered if there was something else going on behind the scenes with the ANGC and Lee that would have assisted with his outward distaste for the place.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Didn't use to change his shoes in the parking lot?

[Greg Tallman]

Baltusrol and Medinah you say?

[George Pazin]

Hard to take someone seriously when only 3 & 12 are cited as great holes.

Point made? Yep, about Lee, not ANGC.

[Peter Pallotta]

Truth is, it seems to me, that this is a reflection of how much Lee hates the place, how much it hurt him -- how unwelcomed it made a dirt poor and poorly educated but vibrant and proud Mexican-American feel in his early days there.  And it's a reflection of how that overt lack of respect from the powers that be got into his head, and how that affected his playing. Jack Nicklaus knew that Lee could've won there; and I was reading a book by John Jacobs last night: he marvelled at Lee's ball striking, and noted that Lee could work the ball any way he wanted to, with great precision and at will.  No -- that place nearly broke him...and LT still hasn't gotten over it. 

Peter

[Phil Benedict]

Hard to take someone seriously when only 3 & 12 are cited as great holes.

Point made? Yep, about Lee, not ANGC.

What are the other great holes?

[Garland Bayley]

Hard to take someone seriously when only 3 & 12 are cited as great holes.

Point made? Yep, about Lee, not ANGC.

George,

Lee didn't say the great holes were 3 & 12. He said that is what people tell him when he asks about what are the great holes at AGNC (sic).

Personally, I don't see how ANGC is that great. I think it is the poster child for getting extra boost in rating due to a tournament being held there. Getting a boost from holding a tournament was cited as the reason Sahalee got rated so high. ANGC gets that boost and some more as far as I can see.

IMO the tournament is a quaint tradition, that gets too much hype for the course and the event.

[Jeff Evagues]

Hard to take someone seriously when only 3 & 12 are cited as great holes.

Point made? Yep, about Lee, not ANGC.

George,

Lee didn't say the great holes were 3 & 12. He said that is what people tell him when he asks about what are the great holes at AGNC (sic).

Personally, I don't see how ANGC is that great. I think it is the poster child for getting extra boost in rating due to a tournament being held there. Getting a boost from holding a tournament was cited as the reason Sahalee got rated so high. ANGC gets that boost and some more as far as I can see.

IMO the tournament is a quaint tradition, that gets too much hype for the course and the event.

I've been sying this for years. I don't think its a bad course but I fail to see how an invitational with a limited field could be considered a major championship. Most of it comes from CBS hype.

[JESII]

The Masters has probably done more for CBS than the opposite...it was a major before the television era.

[Sean_A]

Oh jeez, here we go again.  The Masters is a major because loads of people say/said it is/was.  Some folks may not like and it does suck that three majors are in the US (which is a far bigger issue to me), but life goes on. 

Trevino is a very interesting character.  When he speaks I tend to listen rather than make snap judgements about the man. 

Ciao

[Carl Rogers]

Had the hybrid club been invented in his heday and the 60* wedge, he might have played more effectively and thus changed his attitude.

[JESII]

Carl,

That's pretty much the crux of my issue...the caliber of ball striker Trevino was would only mean those clubs would help the other guys more than him...no?

[Phil McDade]

Didn't use to change his shoes in the parking lot?

Yes...

[Kalen Braley]

Hard to take someone seriously when only 3 & 12 are cited as great holes.

Point made? Yep, about Lee, not ANGC.

What are the other great holes?

I mentioned in my original post, that #13 is a great hole!

And if its not, then I don't know what is.

[Garland Bayley]

Had the hybrid club been invented in his heday and the 60* wedge, he might have played more effeectively and thus changed his attitude.

Hybrid, shmybrid. The modern hybrid is for all intents and purposes yesteryears 7 and 9 woods.

[Cliff Hamm]

Rather than quoting I will reiterate what others have said in my words... Lee Trevino's comments about the golf course no doubt are deeply influenced by his feelings about the club.  He chose to change his shoes in his car because he never felt comfortable.   Whether one agrees with his assessment it is understandable that a Mexican-American might not have felt comfortable at Augusta National.  He simply did not feel welcome.  

As time went on he chose to not play.  His stated reason was allergies from the Georgia pines.  I suspect he was more allergic to the culture of the club.  Does this bias his view of the course?  Seems obvious to me.