[Sam Morrow]

The one thing I am learning from this thread is that some people don't know how to design a par 3.

[Tim Leahy]

Got you all beat, the 14th at Coeur d'alene:

http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/reviews/cdaresort.php

[Rob Bice]

I also am not surprised someone brought up the 2nd at The Kingsley Club.  Always a nice place to make either a 2 or a 10 while playing the same ball.  One of my favorite par threes anywhere.

I played Kinglsey a handful of times a few summers ago and found the 9th hole more difficult/penal than the 2nd.  Maybe it was the specific tee/pin combination on 9 that day - it was brutal.  I really enjoyed the 2nd and became enemies with the 9th.

[Matthew Rose]

17 at U-Ridge was always a brutal hole at 195. I can't remotely imagine playing it at 250.

[Ian Andrew]

The 11th at Shinnecock Hills for Donnie:

[Brian_Sleeman]

I played Kinglsey a handful of times a few summers ago and found the 9th hole more difficult/penal than the 2nd.  Maybe it was the specific tee/pin combination on 9 that day - it was brutal.  I really enjoyed the 2nd and became enemies with the 9th.

You know, I've had the opposite experience and fared slightly better there than on the 2nd, but you're right, it may be more penal, in that if you miss the green you've got your hands full.

[Mark Johnson]

my vote is for the 7th at princeville.  210 from the tips over a ravine to a tilted green bordered by the ocean

[Peter Ferlicca]

Ok, I have three to add.  I will start from least penal to the hardest.  Trust me though par is a very, very hard task on all three of them.

First is #15 at Aldarra in Seattle.  At something like 235 yards to a extremely raised green that is shallow, and run off areas all around.  You just need to strike a real high solid hybrid or three wood here to make a par.


Second is #11 at Tumble Creek in Cle Elum, Washington.  Though it is only 176 yards from the tips, it is almost always into a 20+mph wind.  A small narrow green that drops off all around, means you better strike your club just perfect, or the wind will just push it all over the place.  Lets me just say that the bushes on the right collect A LOT of balls.  Tons of X's are recorded here.  If you do catch it on a calm day, you still feel happy about getting a par.


Last, is #11 at The Summit Course at Cordillera in Edwards, CO.  At 275 yards, a lot of people are pulling out the big stick and hoping they hit it straight, and there really isn't even a bailout area.  And then on top of it, the green is a steep two tiered green, I am pretty sure a 18+ handicapper should just move to the next hole and not even bother losing multiple golf balls.

[Scott Warren]

Richard Choi:

At least if I hit it into the drink at 17th at Sawgrass, I get to drop about 80 yards away to try again.

On how many other par threes are you likely to (perhaps regularly) be playing three from 80 yards out?

That's pretty bloody penal IMO!

[Jason Topp]

I agree With Matt about the difficulty of 8 at Wolf Creek.

[Will MacEwen]

Rich,

I would say that #14 at PD is sneaky penal.  You can cruise up to the tee, see the flag, pull a 9 iron and a few minutes later you are putting a 5 on the card and shaking your head.

When you step up to #8 at WC, you know the hole has trouble everywhere.  #14 at PD it sneaks up on you.

[Ronald Montesano]

1.  Kai Sai Chau looks brutal.

2.  250 yarders at Tullymore and Whistling Straits Straits course are brutal ones that I have played.

3.  Flemma has the right course but the wrong hole at The Pit...I think it's number 3 with the Jurassic Park Jungle all around that little green.

4. 17 at Harvest Hill in Orchard Park, NY, is pretty brutal, but only due to its poor design.  From the tips, you have to float a 3-metal over an enormous kettle of water, land it on an average-sized green and not have it roll off to the cartparth and backing forest.

[Mark Saltzman]

Rich,

I would say that #14 at PD is sneaky penal.  You can cruise up to the tee, see the flag, pull a 9 iron and a few minutes later you are putting a 5 on the card and shaking your head.

When you step up to #8 at WC, you know the hole has trouble everywhere.  #14 at PD it sneaks up on you.

"Sneaky penal" does not mean "most penal" (as in the title of this thread), but nevertheless, well said and I agree with you completely.

Mark

[Gary Slatter]

The 8th hole at Wolf Creek in Mesquite is as penal as I have ever seen.  A drive into the water almost is the safe shot!

[Mike Hogan]

I had a little trouble with #9 at Kingsley Club. In three rounds I ended up in 3 different bunkers.

[John Kirk]

#2 at La Quinta - Mountain course is very difficult.  Just adding to the list.

[Matt_Ward]

Carl:

The topic of this thread is "most penal" -- the 8th at Wolf Creek only rewards the best of the best approaches. The slightest pull and it's wet -- the slightest push and it can be a quick reload. Laying up is no bargain either.

In sum -- it can be a three or put it in your pocket type hole.

Best thing about it -- is that the more forward tees do enhance playability -- only those who feel the need for a challenge should be back at the tips.

[Jason Topp]

Best thing about it -- is that the more forward tees do enhance playability -- only those who feel the need for a challenge should be back at the tips.

Or the 6300 yard tees - 217 yards on the 8th

[Matt_Ward]

Jason:

How nice of you to leave out the 150-yard markers.

People can easily pick and choose the different tee boxes as they wish.

In certain situations -- such as the 8th -- that would help many for sure.

[Matt Day]

this is the first hole at Clearwater Bay in Hong Kong. Would have to rate as one of the hardest stroke index 11 starting holes anywhere

[Robin_Hiseman]

I don't claim this to be as penal as some of the brutes in this thread, but as we haven't had anything from the UK yet, I offer this one as a token of how mean we can be.

This is the 4th hole at Brampton Park in Cambridgeshire.  174 Yards....Stroke Index 1!!  Hole was designed by Simon Gidman during his time with Hawtree, back in the late 80's.  I played it once and it was a simply terrifying prospect from the tee.  The cloying presence of the thick forest was bad enough, but the entire hole is surrounded by flooded gravel pits, so anything short, long, left or right is gone.  It is SERIOUSLY narrow.

We Brits don't give up golf balls lightly and this is definitely a hole on which you want to dig to the very depths of your ball pocket and find that scraggy Pinnacle or Top Flite you keep for special occasions.

[Mark Pearce]

Robin,

That looks a piece of cake compared to the 9th at Brancepeth (which anyone joining us on the Friday of the Coltathon will get the chance to play twice).  I don't knowe if Boony has a photo he can share?

Mark

[Sean_A]

Folks seem to be saying that length adds to how penal a hole is.  I would think that length increases difficulty, but has no bearing on whether a hole is penal or not.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

14th at Doonbeg...
8th at Royal Troon...

Incredibly penal holes both...

Also both under 120 yards...

[JC Jones]

I played Kinglsey a handful of times a few summers ago and found the 9th hole more difficult/penal than the 2nd.  Maybe it was the specific tee/pin combination on 9 that day - it was brutal.  I really enjoyed the 2nd and became enemies with the 9th.

You know, I've had the opposite experience and fared slightly better there than on the 2nd, but you're right, it may be more penal, in that if you miss the green you've got your hands full.

I'm with you, Brian.  Last summer I played #9 at 1 under in a few rounds.  I've never made anything less than a 5 at #2.  It has gotten to the point where I am a complete mental trainwreck on the tee.

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