Taking things too literally at Chambers Bay

[Peter_Herreid]

This has been referenced by a couple of other folks in earlier threads, but there was a (thankfully no fatalities) train derailment and collision in University Place, Washington on February 26th.  I have golfed here with the gentleman who claims to have been the original hole name author and I'm sure he never quite envisioned this:



The smell of the workers dismantling the chunks of metal was notable on all the Sound-side holes, as were the sounds and the sight of the smoke...Supposedly some 12-15 freight cars were damaged to varying degrees:



As far as the course is concerned, I played last on March 7th, and the course was reasonably firm considering all the rain we have had.  This is the overview of the 5th green looking southwest:



The big difference is that the greens were very, very fast and pretty smooth, which will shock some foks because they will not believe this is possible.  The greens in the downgrain, downhill directions were comfortably stimping at 11-12, and the uphill, upgrain putts were perhaps settling in at 8.5-9.  On a quiet Monday in March, several hole locations had to be moved after the first hour's play because groups could not finish certain holes.  The location on #1, for example, was at the union of the three dominant slopes toward the right-center and slightly back and it was not possible to reliably keep putts within a 2 ft radius of that hole.  The "backboards" which some on here take issue with the course for were more like slingshots under those conditions, with various shots being repelled far off the greensites in other directions than usual...

Greenside #6


The green speeds is likely a very temporary condition, as they have had fertilizer (?) applied and have recently been rolled.  We should see some grass growth here before long, which will slow down the greens as well.

Looking over #12 from high above #13 tee:


Nevertheless, for now, the turf has all of the wonderful playing qualities of the turf we love so much down at Bandon, with the immediate additional challenge of incredibly speedy, yet pretty uniform, greens.  Also, lots of new sand has been brought in over the winter, and many of the lofted approaches which find the sand/waste areas are plugging, and deep.  If you like your bunkers as penal hazards, then head right out there.  It's a challenge just to get the ball out the fried eggs/plugged lies.  This is also likely somewhat temporary, as when even more rains come the sand will settle out more evenly, and less up in the faces.

[Sean Leary]

Thanks Doc,

If they were that fast I can see how the backboards could make for a very interesting challenge as I can see balls could come off the back/sideboards and go clear off the green.

Looking at these pics, do you think 12 would be better if the fairway were a tad wider? To me, it has always seemed so narrow that laying up doesn't seem like a prudent play, despite the sideboards . That is one hole that I go back and forth on whether I like it or not, which is a good thing.

[Peter_Herreid]

With regard to #12, I guess I consider it within the context of where it falls in the round and its partnership with #13.  If played by the card as a par-4/par-5 respectively, then they represent a "breather" of sorts for the mid-high HCP'er, but for the low HCP'er they represent the two best opportunities for birdies on the back nine.  As such, I can't imagine anyone of that class not giving #12 a go under almost every circumstance, particularly when such randomness still exists for wedge shots played into and around that green, even if someone does lay up.

About the only time I could see a low HCP'er electing to lay way back there is with a back right pin and any semblance of a hurting wind.  Any left hole locations, or front-mid locations center or right, and I think there is too much advantage to be gained by either getting close enough to see the hole, or increasing the sideboard options with chips/short pitches, to elect to hit a full wedge in regardless.

For mid-high HCP'ers though it is more a matter of feel/comfort and how one is hitting that day as even a foozled tee shot likely gives someone around 120yds max to hack one into that bowl.

I just don't think there's enough fairway width there to make strategizing laterally a consideration at all.  If they really ever made the rough on the mounds so thick as to be a real hazard, there are lots of guys who might never finish that hole either, so until 2015 that's probably not an option either.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks for the report Peter.

March has been a doozie, hasn't it. Makes you pine for January.

[Peter_Herreid]

To give those familiar with the course a vague idea of the green speed I am describing, look at the picture of the green site on #6.  One can just make out my ball a bit left and behind the hole, which means it was just barely on the right fringe about 16 ft from the hole and slightly above it.

That putt from there is downhill but slightly against the grain, and on this day a little breeze was coming off the southwest (left-right in the picture).

I hit a very soft and slow putt which just barely slid across the high (right-hand) side of the cup from there, almost came to rest as it turned gently right-left, but then slowly, almost imperceptibly at first, picked up momentum and trundled all the way down off the front of the green and back into the fairway, almost 65-75 ft away.  And that is not even a false front that one really even worries about out there!

I suspect even 10 days later things are slower now, but it was eye-opening that day for sure...

[Mark Provenzano]

It looks completely different than when I played there shortly after the Amateur. At that time, the only way to distinguish through the green from the greens themselves was white lines spray painted on the turf around the greens to mark them.

[Richard Choi]

Mark, I suspect this is only temporary due to fertilizers being applied. You should not expect to see bright delineation between greens and fairway at Chambers.

Doc, if the greens are as smooth and uniform as you describe, I dare say it would be in much better condition than they are at Bandon Dunes (except for perhaps Bandon Trails) as poa intrusion and spotchyness of the greens were well apparent over the weekend.

[Tim Nugent]

Mark, I suspect this is only temporary due to fertilizers being applied. You should not expect to see bright delineation between greens and fairway at Chambers.

Doc, if the greens are as smooth and uniform as you describe, I dare say it would be in much better condition than they are at Bandon Dunes (except for perhaps Bandon Trails) as poa intrusion and spotchyness of the greens were well apparent over the weekend.

Richard, at this time of year, the Poa will begin to grow before fescue or bent, one of the reasons man has been trying to exterminate that weed for decades.  I'm unsure of what you meant by "spotchyness".  Color? Texture? or Splotchies of poa?

Its nice to see CB finally coming into it's own. It still takes 3-5 yrs for a course to mature and get the kinks worked out of it.  But in today's "instant gratification" it is expected to be perfect right out of the chute.

[Richard Choi]

The greens at Bandon and Pacific had about cup size spots of poa mixed in with fescue and bent. I would say greens were covered by 30 to 50% by poa. It is certainly understandable with wetter than usual weather.

However, Bandon Trails greens were pretty fantastic and fairly uniform, unlike the other greens. It is amazing how much difference less traffic makes.

[Sean Leary]

The greens at Bandon and Pacific had about cup size spots of poa mixed in with fescue and bent. I would say greens were covered by 30 to 50% by poa. It is certainly understandable with wetter than usual weather.

However, Bandon Trails greens were pretty fantastic and fairly uniform, unlike the other greens. It is amazing how much difference less traffic makes.

Rich,

How about the fairways? Much Poa there?

BT's have always been better, I wonder if it is because it is further removed from the Ocean?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks Peter, We need you to come to the deep south and take a few pictures.