Ferry Point GC (Chapter 10 - The Donald Pounces!)

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoffrey

I'm referring to the changes and upgrades to Split Rock that were discussed above as part of the trickle down theory of helping the local courses with Ferry Point funds. They might as well not have spent a dime.

I have not seen any new vistas of a golf course when crossing the bridge from the Bronx to Long Island and back.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Apologies... I didn't realize you were referring to changes at SR in your post.

Based upon his post earlier in the thread, it appears that JWL might be able to shed some light on the course and its design.  Paging JWL...

The amount of cost for the course itself will  not approach the numbers mentioned.   That is all I can discuss to date.    We hope to install some drainage before winter this year and get into full shaping in the spring of 06.   A few things are still up in the air, and that is why I can't be more specific.   I think the treehouse will like it if we are allowed to do as envisioned.   Some anyway.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

This may be the smallest picture of a routing that you have ever seen but its the only clue I could find on the potential design of the course.

http://www.tbany.com/projects_page.php?projectid=160&categoryid=4

Intrerestingly enough, the website says the project will consist of 27 holes (and would be completed in 2002)...  I have a feeling it was changed to 18 holes after the problems with the project.

It looks like there are a few holes right along the river and a decent size range in the middle of the property.

Tune in next August for an update...

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Not sure if this was posted here yet.  The saga continues...

11/26/06
NYTimes
Street Level | Throgs Neck
For a Diamond in the Rough, Patience Wears Thin

IN 2001, a portion of Ferry Point Park in the Bronx seemed poised for a Cinderella-like transformation from desolate former garbage dump to country-club-quality golf course. The plain of dirt wasn’t much to look at, but Edwin Rodriguez, a 41-year-old police officer with a football player’s physique, was sure that it would soon be spectacular.
Mr. Rodriguez lived in Throgs Neck and kept tabs on new construction in his quiet waterfront neighborhood. Two-family houses were mushrooming there, especially along the border of the planned golf course.
Seeking both a new place to live and some investments, Mr. Rodriguez researched the value of houses next to other municipal golf courses. Impressed to discover that houses near the Clearview Park golf course in Bayside, Queens, went for $1 million, he decided to buy.
When he applied for a mortgage, he displayed clippings about the Ferry Point Park golf course to convince the bank that his idea was sound. The bank agreed, and for about $400,000 each, he bought three white-brick, two-family houses on Miles Avenue across from the forthcoming golf course. Two cousins of his also bought houses adjoining the park.
“They were expensive at the time, more than regular price,” Mr. Rodriguez said the other day as he walked along the park’s craggy, unkempt border. Similar houses not near the golf course, he noted, cost around $325,000.
Mr. Rodriguez moved into one of his houses and rented out the other two. Over the next five years, he installed a sprinkler system in his little front garden, put marble countertops in the kitchen and got married.
But he is still waiting for the golf course. If he stands in his driveway, he can see the bizarre craters and plateaus that make a moonscape across from his house, right where the manicured green expanse of the 15th fairway should be.
This month, another setback occurred: The city announced that it was ending its contract with the developer.
“This whole area was inflated because of the golf course,” Mr. Rodriguez said. “Now we’re left hanging completely.”
•
The plan for Ferry Point Park was announced, with fanfare, in 1998. The city granted the developer, Ferry Point Partners, a 35-year lease in exchange for financing the $22 million project. The course was to be designed by none other than Jack Nicklaus, the golf legend, who designed courses in such un-Bronx locations as Lanai City, Hawaii, and Port St. Lucie, Fla.
In addition to the course, which was scheduled to open in 2001, plans for the 222-acre site called for a driving range, a clubhouse, two playgrounds, a banquet hall and a restaurant overlooking the East River. A handsome esplanade would grace the waterfront, and an elegant circular drive would lead to the banquet hall. It all sounded gorgeous.
But construction proceeded fitfully. In 2001, the city’s Department of Environmental Conservation halted work for a year because the developer had brought in more landfill than authorized.
By the time the Parks Department announced it was ending the contract, because it said the terms of the agreement were not being fulfilled, the estimated cost had ballooned to more than $80 million, the completion date had been pushed to 2009, and nearly 2 million cubic yards of fill had been dumped at the site.
At the time, the developer’s chief operating officer, J. Pierre Gagne, said that government rules and rising costs had made the project impractical, but that a change in terms might revive his interest.
According to Warner Johnston, a Parks Department spokesman, the plan is not dead and the city will seek a new partner to complete the project by fall 2009.
•
But after years of disappointment, neighbors have grown skeptical.
Louie Cruz, a firefighter who is a tenant of Mr. Rodriguez, had bought little golf clubs and balls for his two children, Jacqueline and Louie Jr., when he moved to Throgs Neck in 2001. Now the children are 17 and 14.
And Mr. Rodriguez, whose wife, Denise, is expecting their first child in June, has few expectations that anyone will be driving golf balls on the site anytime soon.
“I try to envision the golf course,” he said the other day, pointing to the giant mounds that obscure his nice view of the Manhattan skyline. “But all they kept doing was bringing mountains of dirt. I’ll be in a nursing home before this golf course is complete.”

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Why more hasn't been written about an $80MM blow-up in the middle of NYC, I will never understand.  Would make a great article in GD or GM.

[SPDB]

The parcel of property on which the planned Ferry Point GC would sit is directly below a common approach to LaGuardia and I've flown over it in the shuttle numerous times.

Depending on your view of things, the current site is a mess - haphazard landfill and moved dirt creating odd abruptments, plateaus and corridors. However, they are such interesting (if not safe) landforms that I think it would be a fascinating experiment to simply build a golf course that incorporated the current features and existing topography, without disrupting the hodgepodge of landfill and landforms that exist there. I've actually thought about starting a thread that addressed this topic.

Although you can't get a sense of the topography, here's an aerial
http://tinyurl.com/y4rwzm

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

According to Warner Johnston, a Parks Department spokesman, the plan is not dead and the city will seek a new partner to complete the project by fall 2009.

SPDB,

Lets hope Ferry Point follows Bayonne's lead and they build a course that has some interesting design elements which look natural.

What a unique opportunity for an architect to really create something special and add to their legacy.  While waterfront parcels are rare in the US, it is even rarer to find a 200+ parcel where it would be possible to build a course in a metropolitan area like NYC.  Someone should follow Pete Dye's lead (ala Wintonbury Hills) and build a quality public golf course on that site.  Assuming the course is well received, the PR alone would be worth waiving the fee.  8 million people live in NYC and the surrounding suburbs increase that number to 25 million.  While building new courses in remote locations is exciting, this is where a new great public course NEEDS to be built and most of the site prep work has already been done.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I drove over the Whitestone bridge a number of times this past summer and noticed quite a few trucks delivering fill.  There must be some interesting politics occurring with this course.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

The Meadowlands thread made me think of Ferry Point.  Why a major story hasn't been written about this project in a golf publication I will never know.

My annual update:

Bronx Golf Course Boondoggle Sinks Millions Down the Hole
Village Voice, 10/25/07

The Ferry Point Golf Course was looking like multi-million-dollar boondoggle back in 2002 just months after it was announced—and it hasn't gotten any better. An audit released Thursday by city Comptroller William Thompsom reveals that the city overpaid a vendor $6 million of taxpayer money and the Parks Department hardly even checked to see if the work got done.

Though the project, inked in the final days of the Giuliani administration, was slated to open in 2003, the city has spent $7.2 million on the project to date and has only an environmental mess—not a PGA-style professional golf course—to show for it.

“The Parks Department absolutely dropped the ball when it came to the Ferry Point Golf Course,” Thompson said in a statement. “The Parks Department failed to not only ensure the timely completion of this project, but also failed to be vigilant of capital improvement costs at the golf course. The Parks Department paid for work for which the City was not liable, and lost out on millions of dollars in revenue. More than seven years after the concession agreement was signed, the golf course is not nearly complete.”

As reported by the Voice in 2005, the city was supposed to collect a minimum $1.25 million in fees from Ferry Point Partners who won a contract to operate the course for 35 years. Instead the city has laid out millions. From the Voice:

By contract, the city is responsible for dealing with environmental cleanup on the site and has already spent more than $6 million. Of that, about $1 million went to the law firm of Carter Ledyard & Milburn for defeating lawsuits filed by the New York City Environmental Justice Alliance that demanded a full environmental review. Gagné says about $2 million has gone to Gannett Fleming Inc., the company that conducts DEC-mandated monitoring on the incoming truckloads of fill.
Some of the lowlights from Thompson's audit:


Parks allowed Ferry Point Partners to reach an agreement with its subcontractor, Laws Construction, in which Laws Construction would be paid to import and shape the fill required to construct the golf course by retaining “tipping” fees paid by waste haulers seeking to dispose of construction and demolition debris from other sites. According to Laws Construction, the “tipping” fees collected totaled $15.13 million. If Parks had collected the “tipping” fees while Ferry Point Partners was still carrying out the work, the City could have paid Ferry Point Partners the estimated $1.26 million for remediating the methane gas and $3.58 million for permits and environmental inspectors, which still would have yielded $10.29 million in earnings for the City.


From June 2002 to September 2006, Parks reimbursed Ferry Point Partners $7,242,754 for remediation work performed at the premises - an overpayment of $5,978,416. In an independent cost analysis, auditors estimated that the cost of the remediation, including landfill gas trench, installing monitoring wells, performing maintenance, engineering design and a required monitoring program, should have cost only $1,264,338. Moreover, auditors found that the improper reimbursements included work items associated with Ferry Point Partners’ obligation to carry out the required capital improvements, such as the costs of importing fill to construct the golf course, and other costs which were not eligible for reimbursement.


Since Ferry Point Partners had not completed the required capital improvements by the stated date of April 15, 2004, the City lost out on $3,020,833 in license fees through September 30, 2006. Furthermore, as of September 2006, the only improvement underway was the 18-hole golf course. Given the rate of progress, auditors estimated that all 14 improvements would not have been completed until 2011, by which time the City would have forgone $9,712,500 in fees.


Auditors found that part of the delays resulted from Ferry Point Partners’ decision to revise the design of the golf course, requiring additional fill, which also allowed for the reaping of additional “tipping” fees by Laws Construction. Delays also included the failure to obtain required permits on a timely basis.


The agreement stipulates that if Ferry Point Partners failed to complete a particular improvement by the date specified, it could be required to pay the City liquidated damages of $500 a day. As of September 2006, Parks could have assessed Ferry Point Partners $6,286,000 in liquidated damages, but did not.


The agreement and file documentation reviewed by auditors lacked work scopes and estimates prepared by Parks that could have been used to assess whether the remediation work was being carried out effectively and in a timely manner.


Only 55 of the total 807 invoices comprising the 12 payment requisitions contained evidence that Parks officials had actually reviewed the invoices to verify that the work was performed and was for remediation. Parks employs a single revenue architect to monitor payments to Ferry Point Partners and 50 other concessions. Further, although Parks has a full time staff of engineering-audit officers, they did not review the reimbursements because according to those officers, they were not able to assess whether the work was actually done. Additionally, Parks’ capital project division of architects and engineers did not oversee any of the work.

[Mike Sweeney]

Though the project, inked in the final days of the Giuliani administration, was slated to open in 2003, the city has spent $7.2 million on the project to date and has only an environmental mess—not a PGA-style professional golf course—to show for it.

I am not trying to pile on Giuliani, but they probably tried to rush this through at the end of his administration same as Yankee Stadium thinking it would be part of his legacy.

I have removed one underground storage tank in my life on a commercial property and it was a mess to deal with, incredibly costly and a tiny tiny fraction of what is probably on that site.

The NYC Parks Department does an incredible job considering the traffic they have to deal with so I can't throw them under the bus for having to inherit a problem site.

If I had to bet, the World Trade Center will be built before Ferry Point as it brings in more jobs. Oops wrong thread!  

[Jason McNamara]

Mike, this NYT article from a month ago mentions Giuliani promoting the project in 1998, so it may not have been that rushed.

http://tinyurl.com/2yskw2

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

This thread is 7 years old and counting on the creation of a new public course in NYC... Looks like the Nicklaus design will still be used and Sanford is building the course.  Here is your annual update:

http://www.yournabe.com/articles/2008/12/26/bronx/doc49524f0d7b5be610374260.txt

by DANIEL BEEKMAN
Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:34 AM EST

Throggs Neck neighbors finally got a look at the city’s $92 million plan for Ferry Point Park on Thursday, December 18.

Parks Department officials, including Bronx Commissioner Hector Aponte, presented Ferry Point Park designs at St. Frances de Chantal Church. Councilman James Vacca and Community Board 10 sponsored the meeting.

“[The designs] give us a lot of hope,” said Ted Takides, a 34-year Emerson Avenue resident. “That the project is going to happen. That the park isn’t going to be an eyesore anymore. We’re going to enjoy it – whether kayaking, biking or playing golf.”

Hope Kaufman, Parks project director for Ferry Point Park, sped community members through a construction timeline.
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Workers broke ground on Ferry Point’s seven-acre community park November 6. Phase I, now underway, will spruce up the park’s existing basketball courts and ball fields. Phase II will incorporate a playground, garden and seating area. Phase I is scheduled for completion next spring, Phase II next fall.

“I’m encouraged that the city has plans,” Vacca said. “This is what the community originally envisioned.”

In June, Mayor Michael Bloomberg awarded Sanford Golf Design the Ferry Point golf course contract. Construction on the course will begin soon, Kaufman said, in line with Sanford’s 18-hole plan. The course could open in 2011. A temporary clubhouse will see the course through its first year.

Parks will release a Ferry Point waterfront park request for proposals (RFP) next fall.

“The presentation was wonderful,” said Ken Kearns, district manager for CB 10. “And assuming the city keeps funding Ferry Point, the timeline seems plausible too.”

Virginia Gallagher, CB 10’s parks committee chair, called Kaufman and Aponte’s presentation “relieving.”

Kaufman responded to lingering pollution questions December 18. Parks will pump chemical waste generated by the golf course’s maintenance facility from an underground tank to an irrigation pond for treatment.

The state’s Department of Environmental Conservation has released a permit and two independent consultants will monitor the project. The Ferry Point waterfront park will feature environmental mitigation in the form of wildlife habitat. The city has taken borings from the park to check for chemicals; no offshore testing wells exist.

Ferry Point’s new community park will boast little league fields, a spray-shower playground and native grasses. Neighbors will enjoy views of the links-style golf course, a Jack Nicklaus signature facility.

The waterfront park, modeled after Brooklyn’s Jamaica Bay, will consist of a rock beach, boardwalks and a kayak launch.

“We’re going to minimize the hardscape and maximize the softscape,” Kaufman said.

The new Ferry Point Park could fit into the city’s greenway bike route, allowing cyclists and pedestrians to cross under the Whitestone Bridge, to exit near Miles and Emerson avenues.

Dorothea Poggi, who heads Friends of Ferry Point Park, praised Kaufman’s presentation. Poggi is an advocate for Ferry Point Park West, where Parks will install a comfort station and a synthetic turf soccer field. The city could bring ferry service back to Ferry Point Park West as well.

“[Vacca] has done a great job fighting for the park’s east side,” she said. “Now it’s time to concentrate on the west side.”

Poggi wants more Ferry Point Park ball fields, too.

“This was less combative than previous meetings,” Takides said. “Now Parks has history with the community. They’re taking Ferry Point to another level.”

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Here is the press release from the city on the selection of Sanford with some more detail on the course:

http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/ferrypointpark/pressrelease/20402

Mayor Bloomberg And Comptroller Thompson Announce Progress In Developing Golf Course At Ferry Point Park
Immediate
Monday, June 16, 2008
No. 67
http://www.nyc.gov/parks

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and City Comptroller William C. Thompson, Jr. today announced that the City has entered into negotiations with Sanford Golf Design for the contract for the design and construction management of a Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course at Ferry Point Park in the Bronx. Sanford Golf Design submitted the top-scoring proposal in an open procurement competition to choose a designer and construction manager. The golf course, to be a world-class, 18-hole, links-style layout for use as a public course, will be built as a City-funded capital project. A public hearing on the proposed award will be held at 10:00 AM on June 26, 2008 at 22 Reade Street in Manhattan. Once the construction work is underway, the City will release a separate Request for Proposals (RFP) for an operator to run the golf course as a concession and to make some capital investment, such as the construction of a clubhouse and restaurant. The City estimates that the course could be built by the fall of 2010.


“The selection of Sanford Golf Design for negotiations to turn a former landfill into a world class golf course is encouraging progress for Ferry Point Park,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “The City is another step closer to hiring the team that will design and construct the course on top of the foundation already in place, eventually creating another world-class amenity for New Yorkers and visitors to enjoy. A links course in the Bronx will be a great addition to the public parkland courses already in place.”


“Today’s announcement shows that the City is moving swiftly to bring a world-class recreational facility to the Northeast Bronx,” said Comptroller Thompson. “I applaud the Mayor, his staff and the City for its diligence and hard work to move this project ahead. While I have in the past expressed concerns about delays, I am pleased that the City recognizes that it is in the interest of all New Yorkers to quickly move forward to ensure that the goal of turning this former municipal landfill into an attractive recreational destination is accomplished. My hope is that in the near future, all can benefit from not just a golf course but a waterfront community park and playground.”


“The plan for a world-class golf course at Ferry Point Park has been a priority for the Northeast Bronx for nearly 30 years,” said Council Member James Vacca, whose district includes Ferry Point Park. “Every step toward that goal is important, and today’s announcement sends another clear message to the people of my community that the City remains committed not only to the golf course project but also to completing it as quickly as possible.”


Ferry Point Park, a discontinued landfill, is near the Whitestone Bridge and bounded by the Hutchinson River Parkway, the East River, Schley Avenue, Emerson Avenue and Balcom Avenue. The discontinued landfill is being developed under the conditions of a New York State Department of Environmental Conservation permit. The site features impressive views of the East River, Manhattan skyline, and of the Whitestone and Throgs Neck Bridges. In addition to the golf course, Ferry Point will include two parks currently being designed with community input. A new 7-acre community park will include a Little League and a junior baseball field, basketball courts, a play area for children and a pedestrian trail. Construction on the community park is expected to begin in the Summer of 2008 and be completed in the Fall of 2009. A separate 20-acre waterfront promenade will convert undeveloped parkland into a waterfront park with views of the Long Island Sound, paths with seating, educational signage and access to the water.


-30-


CONTACT: Jim Anderson/ Jason Post (212) 788-2958

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Liberty National has nothing on Ferry Point... at least we can play LN.  8 years and counting.  I am amazed that more hasn't been written about this story in the national publications given the money involved, the central players, the timeline and the location.

Here's is the latest:

By RICH CALDER

From dream plan to money pit.
A problem-plagued $22.4 million scheme to transform a 222-acre former Bronx landfill into a spectacular PGA-regulation golf course has not only missed its deadline by eight years, it will now cost an additional $100 million, The Post has learned.

And it'll be on the taxpayers' dime.

In 1998, when then-Mayor Giuliani unveiled plans to build the Jack Nicklaus-designed Ferry Point golf course near the Whitestone Bridge in Throgs Neck, the tab was supposed to be picked up by a private developer he chose, and golfers were supposed to tee off by 2001.
But eight years later, little work has been done besides mob-connected truckers dumping mounds of dirt over the old landfill.
Records show the city has already spent $43 million on Ferry Point and is budgeted to borrow at least another $80 million at a time when many other park projects are being gutted citywide because of the fiscal crisis.
"This is a boondoggle," said Geoffrey Croft of the watchdog group New York City Park Advocates. "Instead of building a park the community can use, the city is flushing money down the toilet."
Parks Department spokesman Phil Abramson said the Bloomberg administration has "embraced" the idea of reusing a former landfill for "recreational" use and anticipates Ferry Point being completed by 2013.
He also said the city hopes to recoup some of its investment by hosting PGA or LPGA events there, and by entering a concession agreement with an operator who'd pay the city a fee to run the golf course.
Nearly $15 million of the $43 million already spent was paid to Pierre Gagne, the Giuliani-selected developer who walked out on the project in 2006 because of rising costs, forcing Mayor Bloomberg to salvage Ferry Point by having the city pay for it.
Ironically, $6.2 million of the payments to Gagne were to settle lawsuits ensued after he accepted 2.5 million cubic yards of fill to help cover the one-time landfill. FBI wiretaps captured one mob-connected trucker boasting about collecting $5 for every cubic yard dumped.
The 18-hole, 72-par golf course overlooking the Manhattan skyline would take up 190 -- or 85 percent -- of the project's 222 acres, with the rest targeted for a 25-acre esplanade off the East River and a seven-acre community park.
Homeowners who invested in gated riverfront communities southeast of the site, in anticipation of property values skyrocketing, desperately want the golf course completed.
But many low-income residents living in housing projects northeast of the site say they'd prefer a larger community park with a public pool.
"This is going to be a golf course for the rich," said Wanda Rosario. "They have enough, so give us something. We're poor people, so how can we afford playing golf?"
The plan to breathe life into the landfill site with a golf course dates back to 1949. But the original plan by master builder Robert Moses only called for about one-quarter of the site devoted to golf with much of the rest designated as ball fields and picnic areas.
Councilman James Vacca (D-Bronx), who's been fighting to build a golf course at the site since the 1970s, vowed that it "would not just cater to the rich."
Although greens fees are far from being set, he said he expects the city to "keep prices manageable."
Greens fees could be quite expensive, even at public courses. Fees at Bethpage Black in Long Island, for instance, range from $50 to $120 per 18 holes.
rich.calder@nypost.com

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

He also said the city hopes to recoup some of its investment by hosting PGA or LPGA events there, and by entering a concession agreement with an operator who'd pay the city a fee to run the golf course.

I have to believe that the player's reaction to Liberty National will make this a much tougher sell unless the quality of the course is considerably better than what they have seen this week.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

The 2010 update:

At least we have our first glimpse of what it will look like which is actually quite remarkable progress given the past history.

This conceptual rendering is what $100MM has produced over 10 years...  




March 19, 2010 6:24 AM

Finally, Ferry Point golf course takes shape

By Hank Gola

It's taken a decade but it appears the golf course at Ferry Point in the Bronx is taking shape.

According to a release from Sanford Golf, which has basically taken the project over from Jack Nicklaus, the routing for the links-style golf course is complete and construction is underway at the 185-acre site at the edge of the East River.

"The City has been bringing fill material to this site for the past 10 years,” said architect John Sanford. “so we have plenty of material to create landforms emulating an Irish links course. I think that will separate this golf course from others. Shaping the landforms to the strategy that Jack is supplying us with will create risk-reward possibilities to make it special."

It was the original hope that Ferry Points could eventually host a PGA Tour event such as the Barclays, which is currently rotating among several sites in New Jersey and New York. Long a staple at Westchester Country Club, the tournament called Liberty National in Jersey City, another landfill project, its home last year. It returns to Ridgewood Country Club in Paramus this August.

[jeffwarne]

The 2010 update:

At least we have our first glimpse of what it will look like which is actually quite remarkable progress given the past history.

This conceptual rendering is what $100MM has produced over 10 years...  




March 19, 2010 6:24 AM

Finally, Ferry Point golf course takes shape

By Hank Gola

It's taken a decade but it appears the golf course at Ferry Point in the Bronx is taking shape.

According to a release from Sanford Golf, which has basically taken the project over from Jack Nicklaus, the routing for the links-style golf course is complete and construction is underway at the 185-acre site at the edge of the East River.

"The City has been bringing fill material to this site for the past 10 years,” said architect John Sanford. “so we have plenty of material to create landforms emulating an Irish links course. I think that will separate this golf course from others. Shaping the landforms to the strategy that Jack is supplying us with will create risk-reward possibilities to make it special."

It was the original hope that Ferry Points could eventually host a PGA Tour event such as the Barclays, which is currently rotating among several sites in New Jersey and New York. Long a staple at Westchester Country Club, the tournament called Liberty National in Jersey City, another landfill project, its home last year. It returns to Ridgewood Country Club in Paramus this August.

Lots of sophistication to know the difference between an "Irish" links course and other links courses.
Perhaps Jack will leave raped,unfinished exposed dirt (as part of the strategy he's supplying) like his last "Irish" links project in Donegal.

[PThomas]

according to Jack's website, he was out there for a site visit recently...

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Here's the best I can find on the routing:



and this page has some photos of the landscape at Nicklaus Design:

http://www.nicklaus.com/design/ferrypoint/index.php

[Tom_Doak]

Just to clarify, for anyone not paying close attention ... that picture above is a rendering, not an actual photo.  I flew right over the site on the approach to La Guardia a month ago and there is no grass out there yet.

At least they are finally getting something built!  But I did think the obligatory "risk-reward" quote in the press release / article was puke-worthy; it reminded me of the "win-win" commercial American Airlines has on the air right now.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

This thread is nine years old and the twists continue... for those not familiar, keep in mind this is the first new golf course built within NYC's limits in over 50 years.

http://www.bxtimes.com/stories/2011/52/52_trump2_2011_12_29_bx.html

Here is the text of the article from the link above:

On Friday, December 23, Parks commissioner Adrian Benepe announced that the city had agreed on a 20-year lease with the Trump Organization to operate the golf course at Ferry Point Park. The Trump Organization will put a minimum of $10 million into designing and building a clubhouse to go with the 18-hole, links-style course, which is expected to be finished in 2013. The clubhouse will include a grill room, locker facilities and a cart-storage facility.
To residents who have seen the Ferry Point golf course project stalled for decades, the announcement is a signal that the first tee off is finally imminent.
“I know the golf course has been through years of ‘off again on again’,” Councilman Jimmy Vacca said. “When I heard Donald Trump had gotten the concession to operate this golf course, I knew all systems were go and this is going to be a reality.
“I’ve never met him, but knowing his reputation I don’t think he’ll tolerate many bureaucratic delays.”
The project was originally conceived by former Councilman Michael DeMarco in 1977. After numerous delays, Mayor Michael Bloomberg allocated funds for the course in his 2008 capital budget. Its budget was $57 million at that time, but that figure has since ballooned to $97 million, according to a Parks spokesman, who cited disposal of landfill waste and environmental infrastructure monitoring requested by the state’s Department of Environmental Conservation, as reasons for the cost increase.
“I never thought I’d see it done,” said former Councilwoman Madeline Provenzano, who preceded Vacca. “I think the snafus will be taken care of. There’s money there now.”
To Lynn Gerbino, president of the Throggs Neck Homeowners Association, the confirmation of the fact that the course will open in the foreseeable future is a relief.
“At least there’s a positive date in sight,” she said. “It was always in the future, two or three years off.”
Gerbino said the allure of the course is a potential boost to the area’s economy.
“We’ll take Mr. Trump. We’ll welcome him,” she said. “And hopefully we’ll have some jobs here in the community.”
Parks estimated that building the new clubhouse alone will create 100 construction jobs.
“The Trump Organization is known for operating world-class golf courses, and I’m excited to be able to partner with them to build and run the first tournament-quality golf course in New York City,” Benepe said in a statement.
The company also operates Wollman and Lasker ice skating rinks in Manhattan, and 10 golf courses around the world.
“The residents of NYC will be very proud of the end result which will include championship tour play, with all of its benefits, right down the road,” Trump said in a statement.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

This was originally supposed to be a city parks public course... if this is now a CCFAD, it is quite an interesting addition to the public golf scene in NYC especially given Trump's involvement and its location.  Anyone know any further details and who will actually build it?  Nicklaus Design still lists it on its website as being under construction.  Most of the recent articles mention an opening in 2013/2014.

Say this for the Donald... he is committed to golf and is not afraid to take on some unique challenges.  I think this project could be a real winner for him if they are able to build a quality golf course on that site.

[jeffwarne]

This was originally supposed to be a city parks public course... if this is now a CCFAD, it is quite an interesting addition to the public golf scene in NYC especially given Trump's involvement and its location.  Anyone know any further details and who will actually build it?  Nicklaus Design still lists it on its website as being under construction.  Most of the recent articles mention an opening in 2013/2014.

Say this for the Donald... he is committed to golf and is not afraid to take on some unique challenges.  I think this project could be a real winner for him if they are able to build a quality golf course on that site.

Can someone smarter than me please explain how s course with a $57 million budget (edit $97 million) +$10 milion for a clubhouse for the operator, can be a viable business plan for ANYONE involved, at a CCFAD?

What am I missing?

Where'd the $97 million funds come from?

[PThomas]

This was originally supposed to be a city parks public course... if this is now a CCFAD, it is quite an interesting addition to the public golf scene in NYC especially given Trump's involvement and its location.  Anyone know any further details and who will actually build it?  Nicklaus Design still lists it on its website as being under construction.  Most of the recent articles mention an opening in 2013/2014.

Say this for the Donald... he is committed to golf and is not afraid to take on some unique challenges.  I think this project could be a real winner for him if they are able to build a quality golf course on that site.

Can someone smarter than me please explain how s course with a $57 million budget (edit $97 million) +$10 milion for a clubhouse for the operator, can be a viable business plan for ANYONE involved, at a CCFAD?

What am I missing?

Where'd the $97 million funds come from?

exactly

[Niall C]

more to the point, how do you manage to spend that much money on building a golf course ? Does the 97 million include for land purchase costs ? Just curious. It does seem like an awfully lot of money.

Niall