[Mike Nuzzo]

What are the best routed golf courses in the world?
Why?

Please don't provide a list - share some specific elements that make one special for you.
Cheers

[Alex Miller]

I can only speak from what I've played.

Riviera. I love the dramatic, yet gentle embrace of the opening tee shot. The fact that the second returns to the clubhouse in case of extra holes in a match. The intimate area around the 10th tee. The use of the baranca on 7,8,12, and 13 because it's both on the left and right twice. I like that the course turns back on itself a number of times, and even when many holes are in the same direction in a row, the use of doglegs changes the strategy so the shots aren't replicated.

I love the use of the canyon wall as an ampitheater for the 18th, and I love that the longer holes occupy the land with the least amount of natural contour (1,11,17). I also love that both 9's explore all parts of the property, which again integrates the entire course. Finally, I love that the 18th hole is routed so that your final drive of the day is also the most dramatic and challenging.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Pound for pound -- hard to argue with Merion / East.

Think of the total availabe acreage -- and look at what was produced.

One can walk the course and the range of holes is quite impressive. How many courses have two par-5's in the first four holes and then still deliver a knockout blow.

The property uses all elements of the existing land and it truly is inspirational each time you play it.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

I think most of the top-ranked golf courses in the world are the result of an excellent routing.  In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to name one of them that isn't.

Cypress Point's was the first great routing I saw.  There are four different environments -- ocean, links, dunes, forest -- and the course flows from one to the next and back without seeming disjointed in the least.  My favorite stretch of that routing is the stretch from 7 through 9, where the course doubles back on itself to find three very short holes that set it apart from other places.  I also love the fact that after those holes, you dive back into the forest for #10 and #11, instead of jumping off the top of the dunes to head directly from #9 to #12 or 13, as many other architects would have done.

[Adam Clayman]

Mike, It's always hard for me to say what's the best, but, what I remember most are the interesting routings. Interlachen, Greywalls, Crystal Downs and Highland Links come to mind as very interesting. Interlachen for how the archie turned the course inside, after the first and all the dog legs. It had a few cross overs and a road to cross, twice, yet each sequence was outstanding. Greywalls, for the way Mike went all counter intuitive with the roller coaster start, and, the gentle looking finish. Crystal Downs for it's front nine intimacy, and the back nine's flow. Highlands Links is famous for it's river walk, which really sets it apart as a great out and in routing.

San Francisco GC utilizes it's property as well as any urban course I know, with an open feeling, right in the center of the  property, that gets felt several times throughout the round.

There was also something really unique about East Moreland's journey, culminating in a walk off property with views of the city. That juxtaposition associated with urban golf has always tugged at my core. Probably from my days playing Waveland along Chicago's near north shore.

[Bill_McBride]

One modern and two classics that I really admire:  Friars Head, Muirfield and Capilano.

Friars Head, like Cypress Point, flows in and out of distinctly different environments, the dunes up above the flat former potato fields some 30-40 feet above.  Coore and Crenshaw used the par 5's to take the golfer down on #2, up on #7, down on #11 and back up on #14.  Given the change in elevation and the limited acreage of dunesland, these transitions had to happen, it's how C&C made these transitions with terrific par 5's that really makes the course as good as it is.

Muirfield has such a great routing (first nine clockwise around the perimeter, back nine anti-clockwise inside the first nine) that the routing has since been known as "the Muirfield routing."  It protects the average golfer by putting all the OB left to harass the hooker who's probably a better golfer.

Capilano features an ingenious routing that plunges 300' downhill in the first six holes and then gets you back up to the clubhouse with a series of switchback holes that tack gracefully back up the mountain while the walking golfer barely breaks a sweat.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I would give a nod to Muirfield, too.  It always struck me as the first "modern" course and has lots of those triangles.

I would also agree that a top 100 course should have a pretty good routing.  As much as I hate to take this negative, I started quickly thinking of lesser routings in the Top 100.  Augusta isn't really a great routing over those hills, and Pasa has some safety issues that had to be apparent even when it was built.  Too tired to start sorting out the flaws in great courses, especially since its past midnight.

[Bob_Huntley]

I must say that of two clubs of which I have been a member, Riviera, mentioned above is one of the best. The other is the Nchanga Golf Club in Chingola, Zambia. The course is based upon a the Nchanga Stream, a serpentine waterway that meanders through the course. I am trying to go through my files to find some photographs....more to follow.


Bob

[Philippe Binette]

There are different kinds of great routing, to me.
 
Great routing on great property: Shinnecock Hills, Muirfield etc...

Great routing on difficult property: Montebello, Capilano

Great routing on no property (small site): Merion would get the nod

[Mac Plumart]

From my limited experience, I'll throw two courses into the mix: Seminole and Canterbury.

Seminole is really something to behold, in terms of routing.  I don't know the exact size of the land the course in on, but it isn't overly big.  Ross takes the golfer up and down this one big dune, has the golfer playing behind the dune, in front of the dune, and on the dune.  Shots go into the wind, with the wind, and across the wind.  You experience every inch of the property and the angles the course plays on gets everything out of the natural elements that are there.

Canterbury was simply a wonderful stroll.  Small property, but like Seminole I think the architect (Strong) got every thing out of it he could.  Wonderful green to tee transitions, lots of variety in the holes and shots required, and everything simply blended together in an very, very unforced and pleasant manner.  That is why I call it a wonderful stroll.

Other courses that I thought were pretty good as well were The Golf Club and Sand Hills...but they are on BIG pieces of property.  And given this, I expect the architect to find a great routing as they have so much to work with.  And this is why I picked Seminole and Canterbury as the two courses to highlight.

[jeffwarne]

Mike,

I would give a nod to Muirfield, too.  It always struck me as the first "modern" course and has lots of those triangles.

I would also agree that a top 100 course should have a pretty good routing.  As much as I hate to take this negative, I started quickly thinking of lesser routings in the Top 100.  Augusta isn't really a great routing over those hills, and Pasa has some safety issues that had to be apparent even when it was built.  Too tired to start sorting out the flaws in great courses, especially since its past midnight.

Jeff,
I'd love to hear your critiques of the routing at Augusta.

Are there other parts of the property that could've been used more effectively, or other routings to access some of the great natural holes that were always going to be included?

It would be particularly educational as many/most here are pretty familiar with that course (at least more so than other great courses)

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jeff,

Off to a hockey game, but I will try to get it sorted out. I ran into Mac's nephew years ago and he had the theory, which I recall that the clubhouse site basically ruined the routing.  There are a lot of blind and steep uphill holes/approaches on ANGC, too many for my tastes, but I don't think I am the only one.

[Ben Sims]

In my opinion, there's many subjective factors that go into making a great routing.  Almost too many.  Is it a great walk?  Does it work with the terrain and not against it?  Does it make use of natural features?  Does it make a small space seem big?

The best routing I think I have ever played is Pacific Dunes.  Like C&C at Friars, Renaissance used par 5's to cover ground and transport the golfer from one area to another, and did so very effectively.  If someone told me that the furthest southern point of the golf course was the lower tee at 10, I would never have guessed it.  It doesn't feel that way when you get from there to the 13th green.  The area of the property that includes 1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 16, 17, 18 is an interesting study in how to get the most out of the best property.  The property's shape had no business producing three separate encounters with the ocean, yet it does so, with stirring landlocked gaps in between.  

Others I considered...

Riviera
Crystal Downs
Stone Eagle (seriously)

[Stewart Naugler]

I completely agree with Tom regarding Cypress's routing. During my time there, I must have walked the grounds at least 100 times thinking of how Raynor or MacKenzie could have routed the forest/dunes holes differently. The end result is not just good, it's near perfect. MacKenzie's a genius for blending the course naturally into the land, the bunkers and the great green complexes, but the Doctor used much of Raynor's original routing. Raynor's routing is different in that 17 mile drive wasn't a factor and #16 wouldn't be what it is today. It's not the Doctor who deserves credit for #16 though, it's Marion Hollins who insisted on it being a par 3 (common knowledge). I can't tell you how I know about Raynor's routing but I can tell you that the Doctor saw a version of it when he arrived on the peninsula. With that said, I thank God that the Doctor/Hunter did the actual work at the Point because Raynor's wouldn't have been as natural and unique. I prefer Raynor's work over almost all others but I believe he would have used many template holes and the course wouldn't blend as naturally into the land.

The reason I believe Raynor's routing will never be seen by the public is because the CPC wants to be known as a MacKenzie design. They are very proud of this fact and they should be. This is just an opinion I formed after talking to several knowledgeable "mature" folks and after studying many old pictures/slides/documents/etc. at the club.

#14 and 17mile drive


#16 Green

[Steve Lapper]

I'll second the choices of Merion, Seminole, Friars Head and Cypress and add a few I think work effortlessly.

On the Continent, Ballyneal moves seamlessly from the first tee through the 18th green. The terrain is followed with reverence, walks short between greens and tees and holes laid out across the span of any wind direction. Though I've played the course less than 5X, each walk feels more coherent than the last and more is revealed. That, IMO, is the sign of a brilliant routing.

Abroad, Royal Melbourne West and Kingston Heath produce similar excellence. Never do holes feel juxtaposed onto the land by man's hand and the adventure seems to spill from each green through the next. Both courses never tax the player's gyroscope artificially and the man-made sand hazards resonate with natural appeal. Simply delightful!

There are others that come to mind, but few, if any, seem to feel as sure and natural as these.

[Anton]

There are Many great layouts in the world but the one that always comes to mind as the "best in the world" is Pine Valley.  Crump was so wise in setting and sticking to his principles of design like:

principles: no hole should be laid out parallel to the next; no more than two consecutive holes should play in the same direction; and players shouldn't be able to see any hole other than the one they were playing. He also felt that a round of golf on his course should require a player to use every club and shot in the bag thus creating infinite variety.

Of course all designers use a formula to go by but Crumps seemed to work so well with the landscape he purchased.  Privacy and seclusion fit the nature of the site perfectly.  Also, despite the isolation of the place the course is extremely walkable (much easier than neighboring Trump Philly) with most tees and greens just steps apart.  If I was ever presented the opportunity to design a course of my own I would go by these principles.  

[Jim Nugent]

  MacKenzie's a genius for blending the course naturally into the land, the bunkers and the great green complexes, but the Doctor used much of Raynor's original routing. Raynor's routing is different in that 17 mile drive wasn't a factor and #16 wouldn't be what it is today. It's not the Doctor who deserves credit for #16 though, it's Marion Hollins who insisted on it being a par 3 (common knowledge). I can't tell you how I know about Raynor's routing but I can tell you that the Doctor saw a version of it when he arrived on the peninsula. With that said, I thank God that the Doctor/Hunter did the actual work at the Point because Raynor's wouldn't have been as natural and unique. I prefer Raynor's work over almost all others but I believe he would have used many template holes and the course wouldn't blend as naturally into the land.

The reason I believe Raynor's routing will never be seen by the public is because the CPC wants to be known as a MacKenzie design. They are very proud of this fact and they should be. This is just an opinion I formed after talking to several knowledgeable "mature" folks and after studying many old pictures/slides/documents/etc. at the club.

Any insights you can give on Raynor and CPC will be followed with great interest on this website.  It's one of the biggest unknowns in golf course architecture. 

Several months ago, we had an extensive discussion of who routed #16 and how, and whether Marion really did hit a ball over the chasm.  Couldn't come up with a definitive answer.   

[Adam Clayman]

Ben Sims. Pac Dunes would be much better with less climbs to the next tee. Their justification presumes without an ocean view the hole/course is somehow lessened does not exemplify the "best", imo.

[Stewart Naugler]

Jim- I have to be careful what I post because I'm not sure what information I was told was meant to be kept private or public. I can tell you everyone I talked to at the Point believes the Marion #16 story. The ladies even have a tournament named after Marion where they place a plaque on #16 stating just that.

I will post more information regarding Raynor once I get a little more comfortable with the board. I do have the resources to answer just about any question you have about the Point. I just have to make sure it's OK to post the information I was given.

[Jim Nugent]

Jim- I have to be careful what I post because I'm not sure what information I was told was meant to be kept private or public. I can tell you everyone I talked to at the Point believes the Marion #16 story. The ladies even have a tournament named after Marion where they place a plaque on #16 stating just that.

I will post more information regarding Raynor once I get a little more comfortable with the board. I do have the resources to answer just about any question you have about the Point. I just have to make sure it's OK to post the information I was given.

Do you know if anyone saw Marion hit the shot, and gave a first-hand account of it?  The accounts we saw, such as Mackenzie's, turned out to be second-hand. 

I'd also like to know which templates Raynor would have built at CPC, and where.  Also how far along his plans were; and if he was still working on the design up till his untimely death. 

[Wade Whitehead]

The figure eight in Ballyhack's back nine gives the players every possible look at the day's wind.  In a span of six holes, the player plays in just about every direction.  On a windy day the routing can quite literally twist the player into submission.

The front nine permits a player to enjoy a wide range of hole sequences.  After playing the first, he might continue to the second OR play the sixth instead (since its tee is near the first green).  From the second green, he might continue to three or skip to hole five.  After six, he can continue to seven or walk across the ninth green home.  These intersections mean a member can enjoy loops of 2, 4, 5, 7, or all 9 holes on the front.  The quiet nature of the facility means any of these is a possibility on almost any given day (as opposed to other clubs where skipping holes means interfering with other groups and flow of play).

Lester may or may not have intended this but it's a great benefit to the routing he selected, especially to the local member who might have time to squeeze in a few late afternoon holes.  Such routing on the front nine means empty holes late in the day, even when the tee sheet has been "busy" with more than 16 or 20 rounds.

WW

[jim_lewis]

I think the best routing job I have seen is Donald Ross's Wanamoisett. He managed to route 18 wonderful holes over a piece of property smaller that a Walmart parking lot. Yet you never feel crowded while playing it.

I suggest that any course that has both 9 and 18 returning to the clubhouse is almost certainly a flawed routing. The architect very likely had to make some routing concession to get both finishing holes back to the clubhouse. ANGC is probably a good example since the approaches to both 9 and 18 are uphill. An uphill slog at the end of a round is no fun and is a routing weakness in my view.

[Jim Tang]

Of the courses I've played, I love the routing of Pacific Dunes.  The back to back par 3's took courage to build.  Some holes give you long views of the course and ocean, while other holes have you smack up against the cliffs and water.  The anticipation of getting out to the ocean builds as you play holes 1, 2 and 3 and culminates nicely with the walk down to the 4th tee box from the 3rd green.

[Matt MacIver]

Mid-Pines often gets a mention when discussing solid routings. It's such a quaint, compact walk without being at all claustrophobic. A great "walk in the park".  At several holes the walk from green to tee is so short it's inspired - yet I've never felt that when teeing off I was disturbing the group on the green, or that from the fairway I could miss the green and land on the next tee.

[Mac Plumart]

I think the best routing job I have seen is Donald Ross's Wanamoisett. He managed to route 18 wonderful holes over a piece of property smaller that a Walmart parking lot. Yet you never feel crowded while playing it.

Jim...I've heard that before.  I need to get off my butt and get up there and check that course out.  Thanks for reminding me.

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