TOC Ballot Changes

[Brian_Ewen]

OLD COURSE ADVANCE BOOKING CHANGE FROM NEXT JANUARY
08 February 2011
NEWS RELEASE ISSUED BY ST ANDREWS LINKS TRUST

The daily ballot for the world-renowned Old Course is to change from January next year, moving to a 48 hours ahead system of entering for the first time in its history.

For many years golfers have entered the ballot one day ahead of when they wish to play the famous Links but from Saturday, January 7, 2012 golfers will enter TWO days before.

The change is being made by St Andrews Links Trust, which manages the seven public courses at the Home of Golf, following an extensive consultation exercise with local golfers, local golf clubs, businesses, golf organisations, hoteliers, travel operators and tourism bodies.
The Old Course hosted the Open Championship for the 28th time last July, when Louis Oosthuizen lifted the Claret Jug, and takes more than 40,000 rounds of golf a year in the six days a week it is open for play. The ballot is designed to give golfers who have been unable to book in advance the chance to play when they are in St Andrews.

It is hoped the change to 48 hours ahead will benefit both local and visiting golfers by enabling them to plan their golf more effectively if they know further in advance when they will be playing the Old Course. It will dovetail with the one-day ahead booking system on the Jubilee, Eden and Strathtyrum courses and will enable golfers who have been unsuccessful in the ballot to book an alternative course for the day they want to play.

The earlier draw will make it easier for visiting golfers to plan accommodation and travel arrangements and will encourage them to stay longer in St Andrews and play more golf in and around the town.

Euan Loudon, chief executive of St Andrews Links Trust, said, “This is an historic moment of change and one which has been carefully considered by Trustees and the Links Management Committee. The one-day ahead ballot has been in place for a long time but we believe it is now time to change.

“We hope the 48 hour ahead system will help local golfers plan their golf and will encourage visiting golfers to stay longer in St Andrews and play more golf while they are here. The feedback we have received from many travel operators and hotel and guest house owners suggests it will make it easier for them to plan their clients’ golf itineraries.”

The 48 hour ahead ballot will be drawn for the first time on Saturday, January, 7, 2012 for play on Monday, January 9, 2012. To enter the ballot requires at least two golfers and they will have to enter their names, home clubs and handicaps by 2pm.

The ballot will take place every day of the week with the exception of Friday as there is no play on the Old Course on Sundays. The entries can be made by phone on 01334 466666 or in person at any of the three clubhouses at the Links. The Trust will continue to communicate the change to golfers throughout the rest of this year, ahead of the changeover in January 2012.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Did they lower the price as well.

[jeffwarne]

It's actually genius-get you in town a day earlier-good for all nearby courses

[Mark Chaplin]

Tiger - all the time there is a ballot demand exceeds supply, so sadly they are very unlikely to make it cheaper for us!

[Gary Slatter]

excellent move, one of the many changes required.  I agree it will help other local courses and hotels.

During my time in St Andrews the ballot was open more than it was over subscribed.  In 2007 it was full most of the summer, but not in 2008, o9 or 2010.    The next step will to start filling in local times with 4 players per time, rather than 2,2,2,3,2,4,2,3,2 etc.

The rate is still excellent value imho.

[Bill_McBride]

It's actually genius-get you in town a day earlier-good for all nearby courses

You can always have your B&B or hotel manager put you in and arrive yourself the day before.

[Marty Bonnar]

"To enter the ballot requires at least two golfers"

Eh?

[Anthony Gray]

  I'm not sure what the policy of Cruden Bay is.

  Anthony

[Bill_McBride]

  I'm not sure what the policy of Cruden Bay is.

  Anthony

Hard to get on the course on a Saturday in June.  That's why I haven't played there yet.

[James Bennett]

Bill (and others)

this thread prompted me to check about the "reverse" event that has been typically held at the end-of-March/early-April, with the course played in reverse for two or three days (the first being the last day of the old/new/reverse 3-day event we played in).

Well, it seems to me from the Links Trust website that 'the reverse' was last played in 2008.  I was pleased to do it in 2007, and look forward to do it once again some time.  It appears that it won't be an annual option.

Is this right?

James B

[Chris Kane]

You can always have your B&B or hotel manager put you in and arrive yourself the day before.

Or ring yourself!

[Ulrich Mayring]

They are losing a lot of business from not filling up groups and the fact that singles cannot get on, unless they get up at 6 AM and wait for hours around the starter's box - not exactly my idea of a holiday! I was in St Andrews for about ten days last summer and asked the starter every day and he never had anything for me, not even in the late afternoon. So I went out and played elsewhere, luckily there is no shortage of good courses in Fife.

But it would be so simple to put out a sheet for single golfers, where they could combine with others to enter the draw. Or even hold a draw for a couple of times only amongst single golfers, where they could easily fill up the groups - no single golfer would ever complain if he was paired with three others. They could do a lot to improve the experience of visiting golfers, but they just aren't interested. I saw group after group teeing off from the first tee and many were only 2 or 3, but the starter wouldn't even bother to ask them, whether they would take me on.

One of the very few negative experiences I had in Scotland. Most Scots were falling over themselves to be friendly to visitors, but the Links Trust people were mostly grumpy and sticklers for "this is the process, I don't care whether it makes sense".

So this 48 hour policy is sold now as a "service to the visitor", but in reality it is just an expression of their attitude of "we can't be bothered with being flexible".

Ulrich

[Michael Whitaker]

They are losing a lot of business from not filling up groups and the fact that singles cannot get on, unless they get up at 6 AM and wait for hours around the starter's box - not exactly my idea of a holiday! I was in St Andrews for about ten days last summer and asked the starter every day and he never had anything for me, not even in the late afternoon. So I went out and played elsewhere, luckily there is no shortage of good courses in Fife.

But it would be so simple to put out a sheet for single golfers, where they could combine with others to enter the draw. Or even hold a draw for a couple of times only amongst single golfers, where they could easily fill up the groups - no single golfer would ever complain if he was paired with three others. They could do a lot to improve the experience of visiting golfers, but they just aren't interested. I saw group after group teeing off from the first tee and many were only 2 or 3, but the starter wouldn't even bother to ask them, whether they would take me on.

One of the very few negative experiences I had in Scotland. Most Scots were falling over themselves to be friendly to visitors, but the Links Trust people were mostly grumpy and sticklers for "this is the process, I don't care whether it makes sense".

So this 48 hour policy is sold now as a "service to the visitor", but in reality it is just an expression of their attitude of "we can't be bothered with being flexible".

Ulrich

Ulrich - you have a good idea here. You should start an online match-making service for single golfers who want to play TOC through the ballot. They could post the dates they are interested in playing and you could pair them up then submit their names for the ballot... all for a small fee of course! Go for it!!!

[Brian_Ewen]

Old Course ballot switch is branded 'meaningless'
10 February 2011
By MARTIN DEMPSTER
THE decision to change the Old Course ballot to 48 hours in advance has been warmly welcomed in St Andrews but an American who has written a book on golf tourism in Scotland has described it as "meaningless".

The St Andrews Links Trust took the decision to end the 24-hour ballot as from next January after an extensive consultation exercise with a whole host of organisations and bodies in the Fife town.

The change is being made to give those golfers who miss out in the ballot more time to fix up an alternative venue as well as keeping visitors in St Andrews for longer. It is being welcomed by Mark Richardson, secretary of the New Golf Club in St Andrews. "I think it will help people to be a bit more organised, especially when it comes to the weekend for our members," he said.

Jamie Gardner, who runs Adventures in Golf, a tourism company based in St Andrews, added: "The main benefit of this is that will allow people to plan their stay more efficiently.

"The reason it's not been done before now is probably that there was an element of opinion that why should something be changed that has always been a certain way.

"But congratulations to the Links Trust for being open-minded enough to take on the views that were offered during the consultation process."

However, Allan Ferguson, who wrote 'Golf in Scotland', a travel planning guide for Americans, believes the change will make no difference to a system he has been critical of in the past. This change is about as meaningful as Mubarak announcing that he won't run for office again in September. When the whole system needs changing, one crumb thrown to the populace is an insult," he said.

"First, it's not difficult now to rearrange tee times after success in the daily ballot. Second, why keep visitors in St Andrews longer when other parts of the country are starving for golf tourists?

"Scotland's golf policy ought to encourage visitors to discover the country outside of St Andrews.

"The Links Trust should scrap the whole damned system, get rid of its cosy relationship with the Keith Prowse agency and start making advance reservations on a first-come, first-served basis just as all the other great courses in Scotland do.

"It wouldn't be that hard to do, if they had the guts and the good sense to cut all the special privileges and just do it. That would be a significant announcement. This one is meaningless."

While St Andrews may be trying to hang on to visitors for a day longer than they might have stayed in the past, officials at some of Scotland's other championship courses are confident they will still get their fair share of golfers from around the world.

"I don't see this change having a significant affect on our business," said Graeme Duncan, the general manager of Carnoustie Golf Links

"I don't think this will cause people to change their plans to not play Carnoustie."

Neil Hampton, his counterpart at Royal Dornoch, commented: "My gut feeling is that I don't think this will affect us because our visitors are probably going to be staying for a few days up here anyway and also playing at Castle Stuart and Nairn.

"However, it could impact on courses where people are coming to St Andrews and then making day trips elsewhere."

[Mark Pearce]

Ulrich,

I think it's a myth that you have to be there at 6am as a single.  A couple of years ago Bryan Izzat turned up at (I think) around 9.30 and the two of us had joined up with a couple of Americans on the 1st tee by 10.30.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

The more I read about the old course "cattle market", the less interest I have in ever playing the course.

Why can't they have on-line booking? Somebody tell them it's 2011.

[Tony_Muldoon]

One vote for the system.  Is your life really so organised that you are only going to play TOC if you can book it for the day between carnoustie and HCEG?
Get up and hang around for an available spot.  - got on twice in August and I loved being there and watching golfers mill about and then go to their special time on TOC.
 
It's quirky and outdated and while I'm OK with this change but I wouldn't want to see it go fully automated.


Also I enjoy seeing who they put me out with and if guys could just book to play with their regular fourball it would dilute the experience further.
NB m last round there I played with Wayne Grady _ from Texas!

[Mark Pearce]

I'm with Tony.  The system works, it really isn't difficult to get on as a single, if you're willing to hang around for a while and actually the hanging around itself is a bit of an experience.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Well, it hasn't worked for me. I hung around for five days and then a week later for another three and every time I went to the starter (about five times total) he was telling me: "all full for the rest of the day". Then, later in the day, I watched many groups going out with 2 or 3 people. I went back to the starter on two or three of these occasions, but he wasn't interested. I'm sure some of the locals would have taken me on, if I had asked them directly - but the rule is that the starter fixes up groups and I respect his position. Would be nice to be extended the same respect and courtesy in return.

The rules are the rules, obviously. But you'd think the guy, after seeing me for the third or fourth time, would at least try to help me by saying "Hey, this morning I could have done something if you had been here at XX AM" or "how long are you staying here, let me see if I can fix you up later in the week."

Other courses, where I called the starter on the phone, always had something like: "You can't play today, but how about next Tuesday" or "I can't guarantee you anything, but if you come at 11, I'll try to pair you up". It's not so much a question of whether you actually get to play or not, but more of whether you feel like an idiot asking.

About starting an online service to pair up singles, well I wouldn't want to charge someone a fee just for pairing him up with others. We are all just golfers with the mutual desire to play one of the greatest courses in the game - it shouldn't be a business to get together with fellow enthusiasts from other parts of the world, it should rather be an integral part of the experience. Plus, I am busy with another project (http://www.golfcv.de), which will of course be free to anyone, even the starter at the Old Course

Ulrich

[Tony_Muldoon]

Ulrich your experience was terrible and must have been most frustrating.  Did you think of complaining above their heads?

My 3 experiences have all been in marked contrast to yours.

[Mark Pearce]

Ulrich,

As Tony says, that's really bad and not like my experience.  If I were you I would have complained because I can't believe he'd checked with all of those groups.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Maybe I should play the lottery then, as I appear to have used up a lifetime of bad luck in St Andrews

Ulrich

[David Lott]

 I saw group after group teeing off from the first tee and many were only 2 or 3, but the starter wouldn't even bother to ask them, whether they would take me on.

Ulrich

Wow. That's entirely different from my experience about 10 years ago. I lived in St. Andrews for three months in the summer and never had any difficulty joining groups of 2 or 3 as a single. What you describe is really an adverse change, sad and inexplicable. (Of course in those days you could buy a season pass for all the Links Trust courses for around $400. It wasn't publicized, but it was available. That little goody has been gone for a while.)

[Sean_A]

The booking (pain in the ass with deadline, handicap and money up front), walk on and ballot systems are not really geared toward 5+ group golfers.  Most groups want to know where they are playing and when and that is fair enough when traveling a long way.  So I don't really see how adding an extra day to the ballot process is either here nore there. 

I don't know of another course in GB&I that runs their start sheet like TOC.  I am not sure if that is good or bad, but I sure prefer the Muirfield system or just the old fashion first come first serve after the diary dates for the following year are known.  One thing is for certain, the experience couild be much better if things were toned down from a Disney like situation to a golfing liek situation.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

How many rounds does TOC do from April to October each year?

Does any other club do anywhere near as many?