[Rob Bice]

It seems to me that it's a stretch to call any course that has held the United States Open Championship "hidden."

I also wonder what Terry means by "gems".  That covers a lot of different types of stones.  I see at least a few rhinestones on this list...

Who?  Me?  Loose standards?  I'm shocked, just like the copper was shocked that there was gambling in Casablanca.

I'm sure there are those who'd question some of the choices, that's the fun of lists, but if you're speaking about LaGrange, it was a Women's Open and it still seems to be under the radar, dontcha agree?

Pretty sure Shivas is referring to Glenview - 1904 US Open.  Also the home course of Chick Evans.

[John Kavanaugh]

Did Shivas just play the US Women's Open card.  Weak, weak, weak.  I almost did the research but just figured Old Elm held a real open back in the 20's.

[Tom_Doak]

the president of the club purchases all of the beer for that particular year for the club, meaning people drink what beer the club president likes and the last couple years have been solid!

THAT is the best management plan for a club I've ever heard.

[Terry Lavin]

the president of the club purchases all of the beer for that particular year for the club, meaning people drink what beer the club president likes and the last couple years have been solid!

THAT is the best management plan for a club I've ever heard.

It could bankrupt a guy if the club in question was from the following well-lubricated clubs:

Ridge
Beverly
Ridgemoor
Olympia Fields

[Jeff Goldman]

My drink of choice is sugar free grape Kool-Aid, and I would happily buy my club's supply for the years until May, 2012. 

[JR Potts]

They are for those of us unable to enter the pearly white gates of the northshore of Chicago.  I have nary an idea where these courses lay.

And I certainly don't know any members.

[John Kavanaugh]

They are for those of us unable to enter the pearly white gates of the northshore of Chicago.  I have nary an idea where these courses lay.

And I certainly don't know any members.

Yes but you are certainly connected in Alabama.

[Phil McDade]

Did Shivas just play the US Women's Open card.  

No.  I was referring to the suggestions of Onwentsia and Glen View as being hidden.

All I know about Chicago golf is what I read here, but I think you can make an argument for Glen View being hidden, but not Onwentsia. The latter strikes me as one of those second-tier, 11-20 courses that would end up on most people's well-known list. But I rarely hear Glen View mentioned, here or among those who know Chicago golf pretty well.

[JR Potts]

Yes but you are certainly connected in Alabama.

Alabama, Central Illinois, Florida and Western and Southern Chicago....that's it.

North of I-90 (aka, the Kennedy)....forgetaboutit.

[Terry Lavin]

My drink of choice is sugar free grape Kool-Aid, and I would happily buy my club's supply for the years until May, 2012. 

Into the land of religious/ethnic stereotypes shall I not tread...

[Mark Smolens]

For those who are interested and don't have the cachet of being a former big-time plaintiff's lawyer and current member of the First District Appellate Court for access, there is a CDGA Better Ball of Pairs event at the Glen View Club on August 29. Sign up begins next Monday, and tho it probably won't fill up as fast as Point O Woods, I wouldn't wait too long. . .

[Phil McDade]

All I know about Chicago golf is what I read here, but I think you can make an argument for Glen View being hidden, but not Onwentsia. The latter strikes me as one of those second-tier, 11-20 courses that would end up on most people's well-known list. But I rarely hear Glen View mentioned, here or among those who know Chicago golf pretty well.

I dunno...

First of all, it held the 10th US Open. 

Second, it's on Golf Road, in the Village of Golf, Illinois, home of the Western Golf Association.  About 30,000 cars a day go right past it, and pretty much everybody knows what it is, where it is and why the town of Golf, Illinois is famous/well-known.

Personally, I consider Hinsdale GC to be much more "hidden" than the Glen View Club...

This is a golf architecture site; please stick to on-topic issues related to Glen View.

I was born next to Hinsdale GC, so it by definition can't be a hidden gem in my book.

[PThomas]

you played Barrington Hills Terry?  if so hows that?

[JR Potts]

That's true, I forgot about the northwest clubs.  Barrington Hills (it has been two decades since I played it), Biltmore (it had been two decades since I played it), Wynstone, Royal Melbourne, Ivanhoe, Crystal Lake Country Club and the gem of the Northwest Suburbs, Lake Barrington Shores .

[PCCraig]

 and the president of the club purchases all of the beer for that particular year for the club, meaning people drink what beer the club president likes and the last couple years have been solid!

Does this mean that the President just orders all the beer or pays for it also?

Picks and pays for it.

[J_ Crisham]

A couple of add ons for the list that I really enjoy are Elgin CC, McHenry CC, and Aurora CC. All classic designs that will test the best players if your swing is off. Elgin has great movement to the property. Would agree mostly with Terry's list but think OFCC south is pretty solid as well as Medinah # 1. Always thought Conway Farms was overrated and looks contrived.
                                                                                        Jack                         

[Jud_T]

Jack,

Agreed about Conway.  There's a couple hole out there that look completely artificial...

[Jeff_Brauer]

The old nine hole 2,865 yard Lake Zurich Golf Club certainly fit the definition of "hidden" if not necessarily "gem".  It is right behind Hackney's off of route 12 and route 22, if memory serves.  I just looked at Bing and it still looks untouched, albeit there are a few grassed in bunkers.  It could be a real chance to study the architecture of Robert Foulis.  I see some cool cross hazards, and a par 5 that looks like it doglegs about 80 yards off the tee, among other things.

From a 2004 article in the Herald:

Originally founded in 1895, the club served as an elite retreat for men until 1946. Only later were women and children allowed on the course and in the clubhouse. To this day, the clubhouse remains unchanged and looks as if torn from the pages of history.

Many of the early members were University of Chicago professors and prominent Chicagoans such as Daniel Burnham Jr., designer of the 1933 World's Fair; Chester Gould, creator of Dick Tracy; Charles Dawes, nephew of Charles G. Dawes (former vice president of the United States); William Cole, former president of Lake Forest College; Robert Lawson, chief of staff of Children's Memorial Hospital; and W. Don Maxwell, former editor of the Chicago Tribune.

In 1912, the Lake Zurich Golf Course established a graveyard on their property to "foil the vile Palatine, Lake Zurich and Wauconda railroad from building on their property (it never rivaled the Santa Fe or Pennsylvania, stretching only 12 miles.)  Four cadavers from Rush Medical College were donated to the club and subsequently buried on the grounds complete with tombstones.

I had always heard many members played shirtless, or worse.  Humor ruled the day.  The club's first rule: 'Don't take the game too seriously.

Other rules included:

 'Any ball lying in any gopher, rabbit or crab hole may be lifted and red rapped within a club's length.

'A dandelion or weed may be plucked (on the green) without penalty."

For lost golf balls: ''The missing ball will eventually be found and pocketed by some other player, in which case it becomes a stolen ball. There is no penalty for a stolen ball."

What other club would schedule the "Learned and Informative Discourse in Newspaper Typographical Errors" on an annual dinner program? In another year, the dinner menu included "entree of prime ribs of tadpole and butterfly livers'.

[PCCraig]

Jack,

Agreed about Conway.  There's a couple hole out there that look completely artificial...

Well, that's because they are Jud

I think the membership at Conway are generally nice guys and people who enjoy playing golf. But it's filled with contradictory elements. For example, they are a walking only club with caddies....but there are cart paths everywhere. They consider their course to have a "Prarie Dunes" feel, but the fescue/high grass is so out of play on many holes that that statement would be a stretch even visually. Plus, for a course that enjoys their "prarie" course, there are a few holes that need a chainsaw badly (par-4 5th and par-3 6th).

It's too bad as, in it's natural state, it really is a pretty nice property.

[PCCraig]

Jeff:

You had me at Hackney's

[Paul OConnor]

Pat,

Exactly which trees would you like to remove from Conway #5?  That is one of the best holes on the course, with a tough forced carry, an even harder approach to arguaby the most difficult green on the property.  I bet the fairway is 50 yards wide off the tee.  If you don't get it deep enough, or left enough, you might have some problems, but this is a hard golf course, it's supposed to be tough.

I would bet that the critics of Conway have not played it all that often, or that their games are fairly weak.  The course is everthing that the GCA crowd supposedly wants, firm fairways, lots of runout, really firm and quick greens, plenty of tough chips, and in general not all that many trees in play.  There are speed slots all over the course, you can run balls up on nearly every green, the greens have lots of internal contours, and they can be wicked fast.    There is a fair bit of sublety to many of the holes at Conway that, in my opinion,  are not apparent on the first round.   If you hit your tee ball 40 yards off center, it's a long day, but that's the case on most courses.

If you think Conway Farms looks contrived, that's because it is a modern golf course built on a FARM in northern Illinois.  I guess they had to move a little dirt.  Regarding cartpaths, I never really noticed any of them, again, if you're all over the course with the driver you might find a few, but I don't think they are any more intrusive than at many of the other "top ten" courses in the area.

I played there one day a couple years ago when our round was interrupted by a huge thunderstorm, dropped a couple inches of rain in about half an hour.  We were back out on the course in an hour, and the place was as dry as if it had just drizzled.  This course can drain fast. 

Cheers

[PCCraig]

I'm trying not to thread-jack, I swear.

Pat,

Exactly which trees would you like to remove from Conway #5?  That is one of the best holes on the course, with a tough forced carry, an even harder approach to arguaby the most difficult green on the property.  I bet the fairway is 50 yards wide off the tee.  If you don't get it deep enough, or left enough, you might have some problems, but this is a hard golf course, it's supposed to be tough.

Paul: If they don't remove trees, they should at least clear out alot of the scrub right of the hole. Visually off the tee it's pretty neat driving over the lake/high grasses. That being said it's not a great hole IMO. The bunkers between the start of the fairway and the water makes no sense. The ideal angle into the green is from the crap/trees/burn on the right. And their is little strategy on the green other than it tilts hard back to front. There is a big difference between "hard" and "goofy."

The next hole, the par-3 6th, I'm surprised they can grow grass on that tee with all the trees. Take away the narrow tee shot that's a nothing hole.

I would bet that the critics of Conway have not played it all that often, or that their games are fairly weak.  The course is everthing that the GCA crowd supposedly wants, firm fairways, lots of runout, really firm and quick greens, plenty of tough chips, and in general not all that many trees in play.  There are speed slots all over the course, you can run balls up on nearly every green, the greens have lots of internal contours, and they can be wicked fast.    There is a fair bit of sublety to many of the holes at Conway that, in my opinion,  are not apparent on the first round.   If you hit your tee ball 40 yards off center, it's a long day, but that's the case on most courses.

Paul, I'm roughly a 2-4 handicap golfer, is my game weak? I've played there roughly 6 or 7 times, and walked it another 4x. Quite frankly I think I'm entitled to have some sort of an opinion of the course. I have been known to hit my tee ball 40 yards off center, but it usually slings back

If you think Conway Farms looks contrived, that's because it is a modern golf course built on a FARM in northern Illinois.  I guess they had to move a little dirt.  Regarding cartpaths, I never really noticed any of them, again, if you're all over the course with the driver you might find a few, but I don't think they are any more intrusive than at many of the other "top ten" courses in the area.

With all due respect to the club and it's members, it's a florida-style golf course that gets passed as a "prarie" golf course because it's surrounded by high grass. I find it hard to believe you've never noticed the cart paths. Sure, there is some width in spots and there are some really nice holes, but there are quite a few dogs out there as well.

I played there one day a couple years ago when our round was interrupted by a huge thunderstorm, dropped a couple inches of rain in about half an hour.  We were back out on the course in an hour, and the place was as dry as if it had just drizzled.  This course can drain fast. 

There is a high tech drainage system there, and a huge maintenence budget. It does play fast though and it's usually in great shape, yes. My comments were directed at the Architecture.

Cheers

[J_ Crisham]

Paul O, are you calling me weak? I've been in the gym for 3 months-we will see how many pushups you can do in Florida next month!

[Paul OConnor]

Jack,

How did I know you would take that bait?  You are certainly a physical specimen, a marvel of conditioning and virtuous living, a man with clean mind and body,...but CDGA says your low round for the last two years was 88.  Is that right?? 

Pat,

I bet you hook the ball.

Cheers

[Terry Lavin]

Pat,

Regarding cartpaths, I never really noticed any of them, again, if you're all over the course with the driver you might find a few, but I don't think they are any more intrusive than at many of the other "top ten" courses in the area.

[/quote/]


Never noticed cart paths on all 18 holes.  Oh, boy.

To your other point, they aren't more intrusive, but that's not the point here.  The point here is that the course, from DAY ONE, has been walking only.  Why the heck does a WALKING ONLY course need a cart path on EVERY HOLE?  Nonsensical, not to mention antithetical to its chosen way of playing.

Again, it's a good golf course and a difficult golf course if you play the tips and a fun course if you play the 6400 yard tees.  It's just not a threat, in my mind, to get in the Top Ten in town.

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