[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Kiawah Ocean is a special, special place.  I love your photo tour Joe.  You do it the right way.  I love the hole diagrams you've put up and the before and after photo of hole #1. 

I think the real magic in Kiawah comes out when the wind blows.  I've played it in 20, 30, and 40 miles an hour wind and one day with almost no wind.  Take those greens with the mounding protecting them and add in some wind and holy cow that place demands percision, but  what I like is that the internal contours of the greens aren't over the top so the course is, dare I say, fair!

I heard a criticism of it recently that it needs to be less lush green so it plays faster and firmer.  I think that makes some sense.  But nevertheless, it is a great course!!

Thanks Joe, these pics are really special.

Believe me, the course will play fast and firm for the 2012 PGA.  The challenge of making the greens really fast is that if the wind really blows, it would push the balls around the greens.  I've played it plenty of times where the balls were osolating pretty good.  Had the greens been any faster, they would have been rolling...

[Matt Kardash]

Now that the bunkers have been re-built are you guys in the process of letting the tall wild grass grow around them again? Or will the look remain a little cleaner for the PGA?

[Joe Bausch]

Now for the second nine, which is also pretty darn good.

#10.  Par 4 (439 yards).



Here is the view from the middle tee box (and note the newly grass-faced bunker):



A good tee shot leaves a look in like this for the approach:



Two pics from behind the green:





#11.  Par 5 (562 yards).



From the middle tees:



Here's a good look at the sodding that has been done to the face:



Usable, but not good tee shot for me this day, which carried the big waste bunker right but ended up too far right:



Play it conservatively and this can be your 3rd shot view:



The green is relatively flat, but elevated:





#12. Par 4 (466 yards).



Tee view:



From the left rough for the approach (I was having some army golf with the driver!):



Some shots from near the green:

[jonathan_becker]

Joe,

The new grass face off of 10 tee is a cool look but I thought the previous look was better.

I was last there in December of 08 and if I remember correctly, from 10 tee, it used to look like the turf was just thrown over a sand fw.  You could see a lot of the sand underneath and it looked like it was propping up the fw.  That was something I'd never seen before.

[Mac Plumart]

The stretch coming up is pretty darn special.  13 through, well come to think of it, 18.  13 doesn't get much hype but I really like it.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Now that the bunkers have been re-built are you guys in the process of letting the tall wild grass grow around them again? Or will the look remain a little cleaner for the PGA?

It looks as if we're letting more of the natural grasses grow in and around the bunkers on the course.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

The bunker behind No. 10 has been completely encircled by tended grass.  No. 11 has probably the biggest change.  the left side of the green, which was about 3-4 feet above green level, is now 5-6 feet below green level.  Pete redid the entire left side of the green giving it a deep collection area to the left.  This will be a draw for the big hitter to try to go for this green in two.

[Carl Nichols]

Going back to 7 and 8, when they're playing downwind, and assuming you go for 7 in 2, you have the rare challenge of trying to hit back-to-back mid- or long-irons downwind into firm greens that slope away from you. I haven't played many courses where you could have that on back-to-back holes.  

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Here's an email I recently sent to a journalist about the changes Pete has recently made to The Ocean Course (although I don't know how to insert pictures that aren't already on the web so I can't put the EA Sport aerials on here...):


Yes, Pete Dye has been doing a lot of "tinkering" to The Ocean Course.

 

For the last year or so, he has had us grassing in bunker faces all around the course.   He did this for two reasons; 1) to return a lot of the course to its original look (as the constant shifting sands altered the course greatly in the 20 years since it opened) and, 2) to limit balls from plugging in the sand faces.  He's also been "reshaping" some of the bunkering due to the blowing sand.

 

He has added and shifted tee boxes on a number of holes to give better angles of play, give the course more set-up options and to aid in gallery flow.  For example, he shifted the 18th tee back and toward the ocean to prevent the players from cutting the dogleg.  In past event, players would blast their drives over the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg, hitting the downslope leaving them with a short iron into the green.  With the new tee, drives will end up at the top of the hill, leaving them with a 200+ yard shot into the green.  Moving the tee closer to the ocean also provided more room around the pond on No. 17 allowing for more viewing areas.

 

The biggest changes, however, Pete made to the green complexes of the Par-3 fifth hole and the Par 5 eleventh hole.  On No. 5, he lengthend the bunker on the left side of the green making the back left pin placement more challenging.  On No. 11, the left side of the green used to be up about 3-4 feet above the surface of the green.  It's now about 6 feet below the surface in a collection area.  This give the player a greater incentive to go for the green in two.  Attached are two aerial images of the holes that EA Sport took for its updating of the 2012 Tiger Woods PGA Tour video game.

 

Let me know if you need more information.  Also, you might want to let your readers know that they'll be able to get a chance to play the course in the PGA Championship setup this year.  We're going to set the course up the first week of August in 2011 at the 7,527 length with the roughs set up exactly as they will be for 2012.  We're working on some sort of handicapped promotion that our guests can participate in if they'd like to give it a shot.  Details have yet to be announced but should be available soon (as soon as I get them from the Golf Administration people)...

 

[PCCraig]

The stretch coming up is pretty darn special.  13 through, well come to think of it, 18.  13 doesn't get much hype but I really like it.

While I love holes #14, 15, 16, & 18 and I think the back nine is very strong. I think I like the front nine better? It may be more fun to play...

[Joe Bausch]

Here it is from Mike, an aerial of the 5th hole:

[Joe Bausch]

And an aerial of the 11th:

[Mac Plumart]

The stretch coming up is pretty darn special.  13 through, well come to think of it, 18.  13 doesn't get much hype but I really like it.

While I love holes #14, 15, 16, & 18 and I think the back nine is very strong. I think I like the front nine better? It may be more fun to play...

Pat...No doubt.  I think every hole on the course is excellent.  Just as soon as I typed my last post, I felt like maybe I was doing a disservice to the other holes.  2 is one of the best holes I've ever played.  3 is a nice compliment.  4 tee box is stunningly beautiful to take in the 360 degree views and the hole is great and the green is such a wonderful compliment to the previous eleveated, push up, crowned greens of the previous two holes, 5 is such a cool hole with a big bunker rather than the over-used par 3 water carry.  I'll stop now, but I agree with you Pat.  Great course, great holes. 

[Joe Bausch]

#13.  Par 4 (404 yards).



Water right and pot bunkers left off the tee:



If you like wading birds, Kiawah Island is a dream:



From over 200 yards out:



A couple from near the green:





#14. Par 3 (194 yards).



View from the back tee:



Middle tee view:



Hit this green or getting up and down is a real challenge.





#15. Par 4 (421 yards).





I was again not in a good position off the tee, as my ball ended up left; right in the fw much better to this small green.



A few pics from near the green:







This fellow appears to be smiling... maybe he just ate that Great Blue Heron.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to finish up the Ocean Course today!

#16.  Par 5 (579 yards)





In this pic looking back from the drive landing area, you can faintly see a red line to the left, indicating the rough line that has bean laid down.



And looking now toward the green you can see the line perhaps a bit better.



From about 100 yards short of the green:



From over the green:



#17.  Par 3 (221 yards; aka "Calcs Half Acre")



This from the back tees:



From the middle tee:



A couple views from near the green:





#18. Par 4 (439 yards)



Big hitters will probably take the line maybe to the left flag on the clubhouse roof.



From about 175 yards out, right rough:



From just over the green:



And a 2nd story patio clubhouse gives nice views of the 18th:





And the clubhouse:

[jonathan_becker]

Thanks, Joe for all 18.  Kiawah is one of my favorite golf courses of all time, but I think that 12 and 13 are too similar.  Also, like others have said, I like the front better and I actually wish it was the back.

When I last played there I didn't get any roll off the tee and couldn't bounce the ball into the green....but the greens were very firm.  Did it play similar for you, Joe?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Some of the bunkering has been lightly "tweaked" by Pete on No. 13.  No. 14 now has a 227-yard tee at the top of the hills at the back of the regular tees (something the course originally had).  No changes to No. 15, but those who haven't played it in a few years, the area behind the green has been changed a bit, adding more collection area.  

No changes have been made to 16 or 17.  No. 18 has a new, expanded back tee pushed closer to the ocean.  This will keep the pros from cutting the corner, hitting the downslope leaving a short iron into the green.  Their drives will not reach the top of the hill giving them 200+ yards into the green.  Plus, the nest of bunkers on the inside of the dogleg have been altered.

FYI, I just counted the number of sand areas that are completely encircled by tended grass area (pot bunkers and greenside bunkers) and there are 28 of them.  It will be interesting to see how the PGA will handle those since they are filled with natural irregular sand that includes shells, not sand that has been brought in to make a bunker.  Will it be played as "waste/transition area" or a "bunker?"

One more thing, we just installed a "webcam" on the clubhouse that will be broadcasting the 18th green on our web site at the exact angle that Joe has included here (2nd to last shot).  It will go live in the spring once the grass greens up a bit.

[Joe Bausch]

When I last played there I didn't get any roll off the tee and couldn't bounce the ball into the green....but the greens were very firm.  Did it play similar for you, Joe?

It was similar for me early in December, which I assume is typical for that time of year.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

That's generally the case with Rye overseed.  Pretty sticky.  We only lightly overseeded this year to make sure we have great spring condtions. You can generally bounce it in pretty well in our spring, summer and fall seaons.  Only winter will the Rye slow things up.

[Sean_A]

As I have only seen a few Dye's, is TOC more or less similar to what folks think of as a Dye course?  What most intrigued about TOC was the polar opposites of some really good holes and some very average holes.  From memory all the average holes were par 4s.  Still, I was very impressed with the quality of the course and TOc is comfortably among the best courses I have seen even though I think there are some serious shortcomings such as a few long walks, a ton of holes having water on them and yet the ocean never coming into play.  I spose that misgivings could all be site/regulation related which would mean the site from golf development PoV may not be as good as it seems. 

Ciao   

[Matt Kardash]

As I have only seen a few Dye's, is TOC more or less similar to what folks think of as a Dye course?  What most intrigued about TOC was the polar opposites of some really good holes and some very average holes.  From memory all the average holes were par 4s.  Still, I was very impressed with the quality of the course and TOc is comfortably among the best courses I have seen even though I think there are some serious shortcomings such as a few long walks, a ton of holes having water on them and yet the ocean never coming into play.  I spose that misgivings could all be site/regulation related which would mean the site from golf development PoV may not be as good as it seems. 

Ciao   

In most links courses the ocean does not come into play, so do you still say that is a shortcoming? Unless the course has cliffs that cut into the property, it is pretty much impossible to make the ocean come into play on a flat seaside dunes setting.

Tons of holes have water NEAR them, but only on maybe 3 or 4 holes does it really come into play. The course was built in the marshes so this could not really be avoided.

I don't really see all this weak par 4's that you do. In my mind the only par 4 that I can see maybe being a little underwhelming is maybe the 6th hole?

[Sean_A]

Matt

Most links aren't built right on the beach.  When they are, unless erosion is (or even if it is) a problem, the beach comes into play for a hole or two.  For some reason (and I am guessing its a regulatory deal) TOC does not.  My comment about the water was to illustrate that the site may not be as good as it appears from the layman's PoV.  Also, I am guessing that if the wind kicked up to 20-25 mph then water is in play more than three or four times.  I was quite surprised to see how much water there was out that was out of sight from the tee.  To me, the 1st, 6th, 10th, 12th and 15th are all holes which are no better than average on a course of TOC's reputation.  In total and I think unusually, its the 3s and 5s which really lift TOC into the realm of greatness.  The par 4s as group fall short of that measure. 

Ciao

[Patrick Kiser]

Hey Joe,

Nothing to add, but wanted to say thanks for putting this together.  Great stuff as always.

Good to see this already bookmarked on Delicious already.

[Matt Kardash]

Matt

Most links aren't built right on the beach.  When they are, unless erosion is (or even if it is) a problem, the beach comes into play for a hole or two.  For some reason (and I am guessing its a regulatory deal) TOC does not.  My comment about the water was to illustrate that the site may not be as good as it appears from the layman's PoV.  Also, I am guessing that if the wind kicked up to 20-25 mph then water is in play more than three or four times.  I was quite surprised to see how much water there was out that was out of sight from the tee.  To me, the 1st, 6th, 10th, 12th and 15th are all holes which are no better than average on a course of TOC's reputation.  In total and I think unusually, its the 3s and 5s which really lift TOC into the realm of greatness.  The par 4s as group fall short of that measure. 

Ciao

1st hole: I think it is a perfect opening hole. It just looks right off the tee and is an inviting start to a round.

6th hole: I can see when you say this hole is maybe kinda average. It doesn't present anything new or interesting. Not a bad hole, but a forgettable one.

10th hole: I think it is one of the best holes on the course. I'd say it is the most challenging drive on the course. That green complex that sits up next to the dunes is one of the most beautiful.

12th hole: I don't know if it is a great hole, but the downhill approach provides a different look, and the pond to the right is a challenge.

15th hole: Hands down the most underrated hole on the course. I think this is one of my favourite holes, and is probably the most natural looking hole on the entire golf course.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Matt

Most links aren't built right on the beach.  When they are, unless erosion is (or even if it is) a problem, the beach comes into play for a hole or two.  For some reason (and I am guessing its a regulatory deal) TOC does not.  My comment about the water was to illustrate that the site may not be as good as it appears from the layman's PoV.  Also, I am guessing that if the wind kicked up to 20-25 mph then water is in play more than three or four times.  I was quite surprised to see how much water there was out that was out of sight from the tee.  To me, the 1st, 6th, 10th, 12th and 15th are all holes which are no better than average on a course of TOC's reputation.  In total and I think unusually, its the 3s and 5s which really lift TOC into the realm of greatness.  The par 4s as group fall short of that measure. 

Ciao

Nick Price said No. 15 was one of the best holes he had played.  He said it is like the hole has been there for 100 years, evolved into the landscape.  I guess it's all a matter of taste.

What's great about No. 10 is that it's the perfect risk-reward hole.  Risk hitting right, over what used to be the big bunker face, and you have a second shot hitting down the length of the green.  Play the safer drive to the left side of the fairway and you're left with a second shot demanding precise distance with very narrow green with nasty waste areas front left and back.  Back/left pin placement is near impossible from the left side of the fairway.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()