Fishers Island: Proposed Renovations

[Kyle Henderson]

I thought it might be a fun exercise to try my hand at a fairway bunkering scheme for Fishers Island

*Mind you, I am not truly endorsing changes to the existing course. Part of what's so great about the experience at FI is that very little changes over the years.

Any and all feedback is welcome, as are other entries.

Original


Proposed bunkering

[Randy St John]

Wow. I am speechless.  I rarely post on here as a new "invitee” but….having played Fishers more times than I can remember, I cannot think of a single hole I would change from its current layout or design.  I like “what if” but think it is best served on courses that have been screwed up.  Those long fairway bunkers look like some 1960’s “toughening” that so many course have now “restored” out.

[John Mayhugh]

I like the version in the top photo better.   

What's your thought behind the exercise?  Do you think fairway bunkers are needed at Fishers?  If so, why?  It might be interesting for you to take a single hole and discuss it.

[Kyle Henderson]

I like the version in the top photo better.    

What's your thought behind the exercise?  Do you think fairway bunkers are needed at Fishers?  If so, why?  It might be interesting for you to take a single hole and discuss it.

I do not think any changes are needed. However, I am intrigued by the idea that Raynor may have eventually added more hazards to supplement the existing features (slopes, ponds, etc.). I mainly tried to place bunkers so that shots braving ensnarement are rewarded with better angles into the greens.


Take #15.
The existing landing zone features a "turbo boost" downslope to bolster long drives.

I added an angled bunker complex in the right/center of the fairway that must be challenged to reach this downslope.There is a small gap on the left for those that cannot carry the bunker.

The longest carry distance is down the far right side, as this is the preferred angle of attack for reaching the green in two, due to a small bunker added in the left center of the fairway just a bit short of the green.

Another small added bunker sits at the ideal position for a layup shot on the right side, just about a full wedge shot (or punched 8-iron) from the green's center.

[JLahrman]

Kyle, you need to photoshop your name in under Mr. Raynor's on your mockup.  Dream big, brother!

[TEPaul]

Kyle:

I've never tried to remotely do a design evolution analysis of Fishers which is a course I do know but it looks to me like there are some "anomalies" (discolorations) on some of those fairways which could be some obsoleted bunkers but that is surely just a guess on my part and they are probably discolorations for other reasons.

Obsoleted bunkers on some courses are pretty easy to identify on aerials even many decades after their removal.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle:

I've never tried to remotely do a design evolution analysis of Fishers which is a course I do know but it looks to me like there are some "anomalies" (discolorations) on some of those fairways which could be some obsoleted bunkers but that is surely just a guess on my part and they are probably discolorations for other reasons.

Obsoleted bunkers on some courses are pretty easy to identify on aerials even many decades after their removal.

There was a bunker added after Raynor's time to guard the front of the 9th green that was recently filled in (at the top/center of the aerial), but I have read that the 9th fairway bunker was the only sand placed anywhere other than beside the greens in the original construction of Raynor and Banks -- and no one else ever tinkered much with the course, thankfully.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kyle

Maybe if you played it in a wind you may think differently about the need for extra bunkers at FI ? 

For mine the greens are so well protected there's no need for added punishment on the drives.

Am intrigued why you suggest a centreline one on 4 ?

Plus those right on 13 and 14 ? The water hazards ask enough questions on both of them for mine.

Those on 15 & 17 I may see more merit in as they are probably the least interesting holes on what is a superb layout.

[Donnie Beck]

Kyle,
I don't think Raynor ever intended to have fairway bunkering at Fishers. I have added bunkering to your photo in places that Raynor used natural contours. If you study the bunkers I added you will find that they are in similiar positions to where you would typically find cross bunkering on other Raynor courses.

[jeffwarne]

Wow. I am speechless.  I rarely post on here as a new "invitee” but….having played Fishers more times than I can remember, I cannot think of a single hole I would change from its current layout or design.  I like “what if” but think it is best served on courses that have been screwed up.  Those long fairway bunkers look like some 1960’s “toughening” that so many course have now “restored” out.

Actually, Kyle's additions are not dissimilar to the recent bunker work at Raynor's Southampton (assuming they're really deep)
Which ironically are being sold as "restored in"

No dog in this fight, I just am amazed at the way architecture goes in cycles and the arguements used to justify each segment of the cycle.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kevin & Jeff,

There is no fight. Again, I'm not saying the course needs any any modifications. What intrigued me was the idea that no other top-tier course I've played is without traps from tee to green (though I think sand is very much out of place in certain locales and wish designers didn't always feel obligated to incorporate bunkers for tradition's sake). This presented the chance to envision how I might try to create more strategic options on an existing, world-class routing without changing the macroscopic character of the intrinsic topography.

I hope they don't touch the course, and I'm sure winds provide plenty of challenge on a daily basis. With the exception of perhaps 15 and 17, every hole on the existing course is worthy of study. That's very impressive.

Donnie,

Thanks for taking the time to create your take on Raynor's style. It seems you suggest he would favor carry bunkers in low spots at the start of each fairway, with the only exception being the left bunker added on the low side of 6th fairway. With modern equipment, barring ferocious wind, would any of those carry bunkers would really be in play for anyone below a 20-handicap? What about when playing 1920's equipment?



I haven't seen much of Raynor's work in person, and some of my bunker schemes were inspired by aerials of NGLA, The Creek Club, and Piping Rock. I'm sure Fishers Island would be different if CBM was involved in the project.

Maybe the next time I decide to put my head on a plate, I'll pick a different course (of sacred cow status) and suggest bunker removal.

[Patrick Kiser]

... It seems you suggest he would favor carry bunkers in low spots at the start of each fairway ...

Not unlike the 10th at Yale before they were removed?

[TEPaul]

Well, I'll be damned and go to hell----I know Fishers Island pretty well over the last decade and more but it just never really occured to me the course basically has no fairway bunkers (except #9) and never did.

So now it's official---from now on you can all call me Tom "Super Observant" Paul.

I bet the reason it never really occured to me is because there is just so much other cool stuff going on from tee to green on most all the holes of that golf course.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin & Jeff,

There is no fight. Again, I'm not saying the course needs any any modifications. What intrigued me was the idea that no other top-tier course I've played is without traps from tee to green (though I think sand is very much out of place in certain locales and wish designers didn't always feel obligated to incorporate bunkers for tradition's sake).

Kyle

No fight here either - you do highlight an interesting point though how many other great courses have so few fairway bunkers ?

Donnie

Hopefully one day I will get the opportunity to see more of Raynor's work and his cross bunkering. That at FI and the smidgen I saw at Southampton was more than enough to whet the appetite.

[Kyle Henderson]

Am intrigued why you suggest a centreline one on 4 ?

Kevin,

I forgot to address this question.

The current fairway does narrow for very long hitters, but I thought it might be interesting to put a small hazard right where most players would want to end up from the tee. That way, players would have to gauge the wind in deciding whether to go over, right, left, or short of the pit. I must admit, it's not really in the Raynor, style to my knowledge.

Again, the hole doesn't need any work. Its already outstanding. My intent is to stir the pot a bit and generate discussion about how a few small changes can affect how so many other features come into play.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kyle

The way I saw you designing that hole maybe something akin to the principle of the central tree hazard on the 17th at CPC ? Whilst CPC is on flat land the basic tenents are there. If one goes right (the riskier line) they flirt with the hazards and if they bail left they have a shot over a hill (or rather trees @ CPC) to the green.

That said - I love the Alps / Punchbowl connection at FI.

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle

The way I saw you designing that hole maybe something akin to the principle of the central tree hazard on the 17th at CPC ? Whilst CPC is on flat land the basic tenents are there. If one goes right (the riskier line) they flirt with the hazards and if they bail left they have a shot over a hill (or rather trees @ CPC) to the green.

A bit, of course coastal erosion has all but erased the option of staying right of those trees at Cypress. I was thinking more along the lines of Ballyneal's 14th.

[Jon Spaulding]

Kyle, your thoughts here reminded me of David Spade's....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/saturday-night-live-bad-idea-jeans

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle, your thoughts here reminded me of David Spade's....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/saturday-night-live-bad-idea-jeans

Now THAT is consturctive criticism.

[John Mayhugh]

Kyle, your thoughts here reminded me of David Spade's....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310/saturday-night-live-bad-idea-jeans

That's hilarious - it's been ages since I saw that commercial.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Am intrigued why you suggest a centreline one on 4 ?

Kevin,

I forgot to address this question.

The current fairway does narrow for very long hitters, but I thought it might be interesting to put a small hazard right where most players would want to end up from the tee. That way, players would have to gauge the wind in deciding whether to go over, right, left, or short of the pit. I must admit, it's not really in the Raynor, style to my knowledge.

Again, the hole doesn't need any work. Its already outstanding. My intent is to stir the pot a bit and generate discussion about how a few small changes can affect how so many other features come into play.

Kyle,

It may look good in an aerial photo, but, it's a terrible idea.

The aerial doesn't pick up the topography and difficulties already faced with the tee shot, nor does it depict the wind which can have an enormous impact on play.

If any hole doesn't need a bunker, # 4 is it.