Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism

[Don_Mahaffey]

Hopefully none of those greeting cards Mr. Kaiser sold to earn the $$$ used to  build great golf were a product of some nasty paper mill.

[jeffwarne]

Hopefully none of those greeting cards Mr. Kaiser sold to earn the $$$ used build great golf were a product of some nasty paper mill.

They were at least recycled paper 

[JC Jones]

I wonder how many people who speak so freely about Adam Smith have read The Wealth of Nations and The Theory of Moral Sentiments in their entirety and have understood them.

[Lou_Duran]

One of the greatest benefits of following this site is the great links to other information provided by its participants.  Thank you Ted for the NYT piece.  I wonder if the Times also did its wonderful subsidy/jobs analysis for its favored administration's various stimulus programs?

But to answer the question, Smith would offer the Times article to underline his point.  Milton Friedman, in his fantastic book "Free to Choose" and the related PBS series (both derisively dismissed as laughably simplistic by the Times), warned against the involvement of government in creating winners and losers.  He identified the great danger posed by the industrialist who would naturally seek favors in the form of subsidies and anti-competitive protections from the only source who could override George's "mutual consent".  Most things aren't rocket science or complexly nuanced.  Indeed, simplicity can be a beautiful thing.

In effect, that is what we have not only today, but for the last 50+ years- call it state or crony capitalism.  GE, GM, many of the electricity generating companies (see "Letters" in yesterday's WSJ), Al Gore's carbon trading enterprises and venture capital investments, agribusiness subsidies, the congressional lobbying scheme where departing members go to work for private concerns to lobby their former colleagues and receive six and seven figure annual compensation for their efforts, all depend on government control of business activity.

Does anyone really believe that these power-wielding folks have the interests of the "little guy" in mind?  Given what the Republicans are showing with the so-called tax compromise and committee leadership positions, perhaps the better question for our future might be "can we do state capitalism better than the Chinese"?.  With our Asian friends demonstrated competencies in forcing labor, manipulating markets, creating international mischief, disregarding intellectual property laws and conventions, and despoiling the environment, I wouldn't be shorting their stock.

So, whatever little help Mr. Kaiser has had from the Walmart class (and I shop there at least once a week), certainly he is deserving.  I wonder if the Times tried to calculate the tax and charitable contributions he has made during his entire business career, not to say anything about the jobs he has created, or the great joy he has provided to us gca aficionados.  I'll be sure to spend a few extra bucks as thanks during my planned trip this spring.

[Lou_Duran]

JC,

I am lazy.  Please enlighten me.

[Ted Cahill]

Hopefully none of those greeting cards Mr. Kaiser sold to earn the $$$ used to  build great golf were a product of some nasty paper mill.

I wonder to what degree Keiser's greeting card company benefited from our socialist mail delivery system?

[JC Jones]

JC,

I am lazy.  Please enlighten me.

Lou,

I would think of a thousand words to describe you before I arrived at lazy (or any synonym thereof).  My question was not rhetorical and I have not read either in their entirety nor understood them in their entirety.

[Jason McNamara]

I eagerly await the release of your biography of Dick Cheney. If one is not coming then I suggest you find someone that better fits your theory. After all, to call a man that has been in public service for decades a looter is hyperbole. I am not in the tank for Mr. Cheney but you need to be more specific if you wish to make your case.

It's one of Anthony's tics.  This thread would have been just as good without that gratuitous Cheney reference, but he typically has to work in that sort of thing.


I read Dream Golf a while back, but don't recall Keiser's motivation.  Was the golf or the gold the higher purpose (not that they necessarily work at cross purposes).

I ask because there's one thing I haven't seen here (apologies if I missed it).  The fact that Keiser has already become successful gives him more leeway when it comes to pursuing a(nother) passion.  It's not the same scale as the aforementioned Bill Gates, who could support any tax increase because he'll never notice the difference, but Mike Keiser never -needed- Bandon.* to be hugely successful.  That is to say, it's a lot easier to make money not your primary concern when money is already, uh, not your primary concern.

[William_G]

I read Dream Golf a while back, but don't recall Keiser's motivation.  Was the golf or the gold the higher purpose (not that they necessarily work at cross purposes).

I ask because there's one thing I haven't seen here (apologies if I missed it).  The fact that Keiser has already become successful gives him more leeway when it comes to pursuing a(nother) passion.  It's not the same scale as the aforementioned Bill Gates, who could support any tax increase because he'll never notice the difference, but Mike Keiser never -needed- Bandon.* to be hugely successful.  That is to say, it's a lot easier to make money not your primary concern when money is already, uh, not your primary concern.
[/quote]

If you read Dream Golf (2nd ed. 2010), then I think the answer is apparent in there that the golf was the purpose.

That being said, the success came through the passion, albeit with dollar suppport.

Personally, I'm just happy the guy exists and that he and Howard Mckee made "golf as it was meant to be".

It seems all too often I meet successful business people, and that in itself, the dollars, their business, is their passion.

Thanks

[Ted Cahill]

One of the greatest benefits of following this site is the great links to other information provided by its participants.  Thank you Ted for the NYT piece.  I wonder if the Times also did its wonderful subsidy/jobs analysis for its favored administration's various stimulus programs?

But to answer the question, Smith would offer the Times article to underline his point.  Milton Friedman, in his fantastic book "Free to Choose" and the related PBS series (both derisively dismissed as laughably simplistic by the Times), warned against the involvement of government in creating winners and losers.  He identified the great danger posed by the industrialist who would naturally seek favors in the form of subsidies and anti-competitive protections from the only source who could override George's "mutual consent".  Most things aren't rocket science or complexly nuanced.  Indeed, simplicity can be a beautiful thing.

In effect, that is what we have not only today, but for the last 50+ years- call it state or crony capitalism.  GE, GM, many of the electricity generating companies (see "Letters" in yesterday's WSJ), Al Gore's carbon trading enterprises and venture capital investments, agribusiness subsidies, the congressional lobbying scheme where departing members go to work for private concerns to lobby their former colleagues and receive six and seven figure annual compensation for their efforts, all depend on government control of business activity.

Does anyone really believe that these power-wielding folks have the interests of the "little guy" in mind?  Given what the Republicans are showing with the so-called tax compromise and committee leadership positions, perhaps the better question for our future might be "can we do state capitalism better than the Chinese"?.  With our Asian friends demonstrated competencies in forcing labor, manipulating markets, creating international mischief, disregarding intellectual property laws and conventions, and despoiling the environment, I wouldn't be shorting their stock.

So, whatever little help Mr. Kaiser has had from the Walmart class (and I shop there at least once a week), certainly he is deserving.  I wonder if the Times tried to calculate the tax and charitable contributions he has made during his entire business career, not to say anything about the jobs he has created, or the great joy he has provided to us gca aficionados.  I'll be sure to spend a few extra bucks as thanks during my planned trip this spring.

Lou-   An excellent post.  I entirely agree with your assesment of the state of our government/economy of the past 50+ years.  It's refreshing to read a free market advocate (I hope I am acurately interpeting your preference- based on your admiration of Friedman and sarcasm toward NYTimes and current administration stimulus program- forgive me if I'm wrong) who calls out big buisness in this country- a big buisness culture that tearily professes their love of free market capitalism while behind closed doors lobby government for large subsidies to support their bloated industries.  Most of your post could have been written by my former mentor, Ralph Nader.  

For clarity on the NYTimes piece on Coos airport subsidies and how Bandon benefits from them- Keiser made clear he did not lobby for them and seems to imply he wouldn't mind if Congress revoked them.  I interpeted almost an embarassment from him that BDG benefited from these subsidies.  

[JC Jones]

Ted,

While Lou is not alone, it is a lonely group that recognizes the dependency of large corporations on regulation to exist and keep out competition.

[George Pazin]

The idea that big corporations are universally pro-free market is one of the biggest myths out there.

[Carl Rogers]

Bandon may prove the exception to the pipe dream of "if we build it they will come".

What risks exist in Bandon's future???

1. It becomes so unbelieveably popular that it goes above the PB price tag.
2. It becomes so unbelieveably popular with so many golfers (customers) that the quality of experience declines. Reference National Parks ...
& the courses may become so over used as to be unmaintainable
3. Mr. K's estate beneficiaries may not be golfers. (See Myrtle Beach & Disneyland)
4. Global economic collapse and no gasoline or jet fuel.

[Norbert P]

I have not seen nor had the pleasure of being accompanied by an Inuit caddie.  . . .

Not too many golf courses in the Arctic.

Bandon natives would probably be of the Coos Tribe.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have not seen nor had the pleasure of being accompanied by an Inuit caddie.  . . .

Not too many golf courses in the Arctic.

Bandon natives would probably be of the Coos Tribe.

I didn't want to use the E word.

Does anyone really believe that 5,000 private jets fly golfers into the Bandon resort every year?  That is more than 13 jets every day of the year.  Given a typical three days golfing with 8 people per jet and 2 rounds per day, the private jet crowd would account for ((8*2)*3)*5000 = 240,000 rounds of golf.

[Anthony Butler]

I eagerly await the release of your biography of Dick Cheney. If one is not coming then I suggest you find someone that better fits your theory. After all, to call a man that has been in public service for decades a looter is hyperbole. I am not in the tank for Mr. Cheney but you need to be more specific if you wish to make your case.

It's one of Anthony's tics.  This thread would have been just as good without that gratuitous Cheney reference, but he typically has to work in that sort of thing.

I'd have to start a separate thread to list all of Mr. Cheney's crimes and treasonous acts... Suffice to say if someone offered me a 5 day trip to Bandon Dunes on the house, or 5 minutes alone in a room with Dick Cheney and a pitching wedge, I would chose the latter.

[Anthony Butler]

The idea that big corporations are universally pro-free market is one of the biggest myths out there.

If someone believes in free market capitalism, they would not require their employees to sign non-compete agreements.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jaka,

If ca.14 jets brought 8 passengers per day and they all played two rounds each the daily number of rounds would total ca. 220.

Multiply that by 365 and it comes to 80,300 rounds per year.  When that report was made the estimate was 120,000 rpy at the resort.

I think 8 persons per jet is high, but even so, that means corporate play accounts for two-thirds of the rounds. That doesn't sound exorbitant to me.

[John Kavanaugh]

Jaka,

If ca.14 jets brought 8 passengers per day and they all played two rounds each the daily number of rounds would total ca. 220.

Multiply that by 365 and it comes to 80,300 rounds per year.  When that report was made the estimate was 120,000 rpy at the resort.

I think 8 persons per jet is high, but even so, that means corporate play accounts for two-thirds of the rounds. That doesn't sound exorbitant to me.

You are assuming a one day trip.  I went with 3 days or 6 rounds per person per visit.

[John Kavanaugh]

"Airline passengers and lottery players are paying for a $31 million airport expansion to serve the 5,000 business jets that arrive each year, filled almost entirely with golfers. Many of them are executives of publicly traded companies flying at a small fraction of the real cost of their trips; taxpayers and shareholders bear nearly all of these costs."


The above is the quote from the article.  I do believe that 5000 take offs and landings is possible for the new airport, which I fully support, but do not believe they will all be business jets.  The math will work if commercial jets fly in drop people off and pick up golfers going home.  It is my opinion the author of the article chose to stretch the facts in a poor attempt to prove his point.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jaka,

Think about it for a minute.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Jaka,

Think about it for a minute.  

I have thought about it for a minute and do not believe that private business jets cycle in and out like a commercial carrier.  Lets use your figures and assume that an executive takes two trips per year to Bandon.  Do your really believe there are 40,000 individuals taking private jet trips to Bandon every year. 

[Don_Mahaffey]

I eagerly await the release of your biography of Dick Cheney. If one is not coming then I suggest you find someone that better fits your theory. After all, to call a man that has been in public service for decades a looter is hyperbole. I am not in the tank for Mr. Cheney but you need to be more specific if you wish to make your case.

It's one of Anthony's tics.  This thread would have been just as good without that gratuitous Cheney reference, but he typically has to work in that sort of thing.

I'd have to start a separate thread to list all of Mr. Cheney's crimes and treasonous acts... Suffice to say if someone offered me a 5 day trip to Bandon Dunes on the house, or 5 minutes alone in a room with Dick Cheney and a pitching wedge, I would chose the latter.

Anthony, I had you figured as an anti-death penalty, anti-torture type of guy. You and Cheney may have more in common then you know.

[Mike Hendren]

George,
It must be a difficult balancing act keeping employment high enough to spur the sale of new tee shirts while keeping the masses in want of one.  You might be happy to hear that because of the recent stimulus program we bought all of our employees a nice new orange tee to start out the year.  We couldn't do it without each other.

Did the t-shirts include the following language:  Barney joined another golf club and all I got was this stinking shirt?

Bogey

[John Kavanaugh]

George,
It must be a difficult balancing act keeping employment high enough to spur the sale of new tee shirts while keeping the masses in want of one.  You might be happy to hear that because of the recent stimulus program we bought all of our employees a nice new orange tee to start out the year.  We couldn't do it without each other.

Did the t-shirts include the following language:  Barney joined another golf club and all I got was this stinking shirt?

Bogey

That is the first laugh I have had since rejoining the site.  Thank you for that and please accept an apology for including you in my bad thoughts about those who don't post under their real names.  Congrats on the change.

I may include in real small print on next years shirts "My boss got a new truck and all I got was this stinking shirt."  I think the boys would really enjoy that.